Toddy said:
I have to agree Toddy,
And as the character in Jurasic Park says - "Just because we can - doesn't mean to say that we should!"
Fascinating mechanism - Pig ugly knife.
Ogri the trog
Reasons for carrying a knife (in the UK).......
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I have to agree Toddy,
And as the character in Jurasic Park says - "Just because we can - doesn't mean to say that we should!"
Fascinating mechanism - Pig ugly knife.
Ogri the trog
Martyn said:Man I love it when I'm sooooo right.
Seriously, thanks for the link Chewie. It does indeed show the knife to be operated by a cam. The knife cant be closed simply by the folding process (as UK law requires) unless you operate the cam to release the blade. This means it's a lock knife - at least as far as UK courts are concerned.
It's also an assisted opener. They are designed to exploit a "definition loophole" in the law. While not an automatic in the conventional sense, these are probably only going to be legal to own in the UK untill a test case. When that happens, I'm pretty sure that the trial judge will rule that assisted openers are 'henceforth to be considered automatics'. I think it could probably also be called a gravity knife - also a banned item in the UK.
Anyone ever handled a Buck Rush assisted opener?
Looks like an automatic, feels like an automatic....
click to play the video.
What's in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.
It's a flick knife isnt it?
I very, very much doubt anyone could convince a judge that an assisted opener isnt a flick knife. I think people are simply getting away with importing them, because they havent really surfaced above the radar yet. As soon as they do, they'll get shot down for sure. I'm "pro-knife" and I cant see how these things are getting through.
Assisted opener is pushing it a bit(for the ET)... I have one(I have a collection of knives with strange/different opening/locking mechanisms) and I have to use two hands to open it, except using the 'hold the blade and shake the handle down' method, and that is not exactly assisted...
This knife will get all one handed openers banned. 
It is an automatic knife.
The first court case will be all that is required.HMG will then use that case as a prompt to bundle all other one handed openers in with it.
I have seen the future and I don't like it.
It is an automatic knife.
The first court case will be all that is required.HMG will then use that case as a prompt to bundle all other one handed openers in with it.
I have seen the future and I don't like it.
On the way back from the Bushmoot yesterday Boxy and I had an encounter that seems quite pertinent to the discussion.
We got all the way to Elephant & Castle in South London, me driving, when a patrol car that was sitting behind us lit up and pulled us to teh side of the road. Fantastic I thought - here we are with a car containing over a dozen knives, a brace of axes, saws and so on. It turns out they pulled us over some DVLA discrepancy about whether the car was 3-door or 5-door. I got out and spoke to the officer who explained the situation and that they would be carrying out a stop and search. Boxy and I remained polite and calm as a van load more officers pulled up behind the first two.
I decided to make things clear from the start and pointed out to the officers that we had been at a bushcraft meet and that the vehicle contained a considerable quantity of knives and bladed items. Again we remained polite and smiling and the officers reacted in exactly the same manner. At every stage of the search they managed to apologise and explain what they were doing. As they searched the car we discussed bushcraft and knives in general. They made it clear that knives were a particular issue for them in the current climate, but after a 10 minute search they seemed more interested in a spoon I had carved and about whether I had ever actually met Ray Mears. The officer in charge then spoke to us in front of his entire team and made it very clear that they understood our reasons for possessing all the knives, that they were sorry that they had taken up our time, and that they had no problems with our possesionof the knives under the circumstances - he made it clear that stopping legitimate use of knives was not of interest to them and he waved us on our way - stopping again to thank us for our co-operation and to apologise again for stopping us.
To my mind that's how you explain carrying a knife in the UK - be polite and reasonable and you will get the same back from the police. Frankly the experience has re-inforced my aggrement with their actions - I don't mind having 10 minutes taken out of my day if it means that the police are actively able to get knives out of the hands of illegitimate users.
We got all the way to Elephant & Castle in South London, me driving, when a patrol car that was sitting behind us lit up and pulled us to teh side of the road. Fantastic I thought - here we are with a car containing over a dozen knives, a brace of axes, saws and so on. It turns out they pulled us over some DVLA discrepancy about whether the car was 3-door or 5-door. I got out and spoke to the officer who explained the situation and that they would be carrying out a stop and search. Boxy and I remained polite and calm as a van load more officers pulled up behind the first two.
I decided to make things clear from the start and pointed out to the officers that we had been at a bushcraft meet and that the vehicle contained a considerable quantity of knives and bladed items. Again we remained polite and smiling and the officers reacted in exactly the same manner. At every stage of the search they managed to apologise and explain what they were doing. As they searched the car we discussed bushcraft and knives in general. They made it clear that knives were a particular issue for them in the current climate, but after a 10 minute search they seemed more interested in a spoon I had carved and about whether I had ever actually met Ray Mears. The officer in charge then spoke to us in front of his entire team and made it very clear that they understood our reasons for possessing all the knives, that they were sorry that they had taken up our time, and that they had no problems with our possesionof the knives under the circumstances - he made it clear that stopping legitimate use of knives was not of interest to them and he waved us on our way - stopping again to thank us for our co-operation and to apologise again for stopping us.
To my mind that's how you explain carrying a knife in the UK - be polite and reasonable and you will get the same back from the police. Frankly the experience has re-inforced my aggrement with their actions - I don't mind having 10 minutes taken out of my day if it means that the police are actively able to get knives out of the hands of illegitimate users.
Marts,
thanks for that - first hand experience, not 'my mate knows someone who had this happen.'
This is exactly how I would expect such a stop to take place - and indeed this happens happens hundreds of times a day in London alone.
The police are not interested in harassing upstanding citizens. They are interested in protecting upstanding citizens, and harassing criminals.
You offered a reasonable excuse. The context was there [other equipment etc., returning home from a trip], and you gave the officers the opportunity to verify the circumstances.
This is exactly what s139 and the concept of good reason is all about.
thanks for that - first hand experience, not 'my mate knows someone who had this happen.'
This is exactly how I would expect such a stop to take place - and indeed this happens happens hundreds of times a day in London alone.
The police are not interested in harassing upstanding citizens. They are interested in protecting upstanding citizens, and harassing criminals.
You offered a reasonable excuse. The context was there [other equipment etc., returning home from a trip], and you gave the officers the opportunity to verify the circumstances.
This is exactly what s139 and the concept of good reason is all about.
Marts said:On the way back from the Bushmoot yesterday Boxy and I had an encounter that seems quite pertinent to the discussion.
We got all the way to Elephant & Castle in South London, me driving, when a patrol car that was sitting behind us lit up and pulled us to teh side of the road. Fantastic I thought - here we are with a car containing over a dozen knives, a brace of axes, saws and so on. It turns out they pulled us over some DVLA discrepancy about whether the car was 3-door or 5-door. I got out and spoke to the officer who explained the situation and that they would be carrying out a stop and search. Boxy and I remained polite and calm as a van load more officers pulled up behind the first two.
I decided to make things clear from the start and pointed out to the officers that we had been at a bushcraft meet and that the vehicle contained a considerable quantity of knives and bladed items. Again we remained polite and smiling and the officers reacted in exactly the same manner. At every stage of the search they managed to apologise and explain what they were doing. As they searched the car we discussed bushcraft and knives in general. They made it clear that knives were a particular issue for them in the current climate, but after a 10 minute search they seemed more interested in a spoon I had carved and about whether I had ever actually met Ray Mears. The officer in charge then spoke to us in front of his entire team and made it very clear that they understood our reasons for possessing all the knives, that they were sorry that they had taken up our time, and that they had no problems with our possesionof the knives under the circumstances - he made it clear that stopping legitimate use of knives was not of interest to them and he waved us on our way - stopping again to thank us for our co-operation and to apologise again for stopping us.
To my mind that's how you explain carrying a knife in the UK - be polite and reasonable and you will get the same back from the police. Frankly the experience has re-inforced my aggrement with their actions - I don't mind having 10 minutes taken out of my day if it means that the police are actively able to get knives out of the hands of illegitimate users.
Good stuff, that's a good example of how it should work. The police did their job well, but most importantly, you did yours well. You were polite, honest and open. Coppers are not daft, when people are being straight with them, they can tell.
Marts said:Actually the funniest part of the whole event was when teh officer asked us if the big dog in the back seat would be any danger to them when they searched. He seemed a bit embarassed when I pointed out that he had mistaken two reindeer skins for a mutt
Get him Rudolph.
Your original post was a good un though,puts the scary posts into perspective.
As I said elsewhere,most of the boys in blue have a brain and use it.
Your reaction was spot on too.Well done,you've done us all a favour.
"He seemed a bit embarassed when I pointed out that he had mistaken two reindeer skins for a mutt"
Seems to me that you blew their minds!
A very good example of how our policing system actually works really well on a day to day basis. Policing by consent, with a few apologies for any trouble caused. And then a sitcom' moment thrown in for good measure. Boys & girls in blue, you gotta love 'em!
Seems to me that you blew their minds!
A very good example of how our policing system actually works really well on a day to day basis. Policing by consent, with a few apologies for any trouble caused. And then a sitcom' moment thrown in for good measure. Boys & girls in blue, you gotta love 'em!
About a year ago I was in town after work picking up a few bits and bobs. My girlfriend wanted to have a look in C&A so I tagged along. We were on the escalator heading for the womens department. About six stairs up was a young lad carrying a small dog in his arms. The lead was daggling down and somehow went down the side of the escalator and got jammed. In a split second my hand flew to my leatherman wave on my belt, I leapt up the stairs as quick as I could, the lads knees started to buckle as the slack was taken up and the dog started to be pulled in. Just as I was about to open the blade and cut the lead it came free, luckily the only help I needed to give was to stop him from falling backwards. The lad was shaken up realising how close his dog had been to a horrible accident. I wear my leatherman every day as I need it for my job but this incident reinforced my belief that it is worth having such a tool with you. Living here in Germany I can carry my leatherman no worries but in the U.K. its not permitted due to the locking blade, this is a shame as on that occasion Im not sure I would have had the time to open a Swiss army knife.
seems to me that here in England we suffer from government by Media and now flushed wth success over handguns and foxhunting, knives are a next target,
The "sheeple" and those others who are frightened of everything (you know them, they call anyone capable of original thought, mad or wierd) will be there calling for a ban on anything that is not 'sitting watching TV ' or 'reading a newspaper'
ps. how many people do you know that only talk about what ihey read in the paper or saw on tv
The "sheeple" and those others who are frightened of everything (you know them, they call anyone capable of original thought, mad or wierd) will be there calling for a ban on anything that is not 'sitting watching TV ' or 'reading a newspaper'
ps. how many people do you know that only talk about what ihey read in the paper or saw on tv
garbo said:seems to me that here in England we suffer from government by Media and now flushed wth success over handguns and foxhunting, knives are a next target,
The "sheeple" and those others who are frightened of everything (you know them, they call anyone capable of original thought, mad or wierd) will be there calling for a ban on anything that is not 'sitting watching TV ' or 'reading a newspaper'
ps. how many people do you know that only talk about what ihey read in the paper or saw on tv
I would never say much,we don't buy papers and we don't have a TV.
There was anotheer call from a group here in Switzerland yesterday, for the government to stop allowing soldiers to keep there Assault Rifles at home with them. This is another one of those stories of why. I think that I've only heard of twice in the history of modern times has someone used thier Rifle to do harm.. But there are those who still call for an end to it. Same with knives.. they want the stopping of sales of hunting knives.. when most and I mean that every knive crime except for one in ten years has been cause by a hunting knife.. the rest were by kitchen knives... Are they next on the bann list??? There are too many out there with too much dumb time on their hands.. I've too much work to be bothered by laws like these.. need to bann many things.. but those are it..
garbo said:seems to me that here in England we suffer from government by Media and now flushed wth success over handguns and foxhunting, knives are a next target,
The "sheeple" and those others who are frightened of everything (you know them, they call anyone capable of original thought, mad or wierd) will be there calling for a ban on anything that is not 'sitting watching TV ' or 'reading a newspaper'
ps. how many people do you know that only talk about what ihey read in the paper or saw on tv
I dunno. I was watching GMTV this am and there was a news article panning the knife amnesty for missing the point, being tokenistic and failing to address the real issues behind the increase in knife related crimes.
Hmm, I realy don't want to start anything, but this whole tread is realy interesting. Here is my stance. Someone used gun to kill inocent people, Ok goverment will ban the guns to protect general population. Some idiot switches to knigfe, in his wrongdoing, and goverment will ban knives looking tactical, or anything beside kitchen, and small pencil sharpening knife. Whats next.. Scredrivers suddenly becae incrisingly popular, and in order to win next election, politicians will make agenda on banning srewdrivers, and amazingly happy genaral population will vote for them again..
But whats next, after they are robbed of their screwdrivers, criminals found new means of molesting population. Belive it or not, a ceramic tile. Belive me, ceramic tile can be wery dangerous in hands of anybody, so lets forbid ceramic tiles.. They can be produced and used, but people puting them in houses will go through special checkups, and police will spend a lott of money organizing ceramic tiles transports..
Of course on one late friday, some drunk boys will start fight with gl;*** bear bbottles.. General population, do you know how bear bottle is dangerous. Or even better, any glass object. So lets change glass with safe PET bottles.. What aboput keys, they also can be dangerous.. Ouch a nasty ballpoint pen, lets alow general population just soft tip pens, or even better calc one..
And in a fight if you push someone, it can fall and hurt himself on sharp corner of the furniture.. Well, new elections are close, lets forbid all furniture with hard, sharp corners.. That way we will much safer lives. And of course, with just a little propaganda, we won a new elections.
So at the end, what will be result.. Anything hard removed, even coconuts forbiden, you know how dangerous man with a coconut can be.. Life is wery safe in padded rooms, and we are feed through IV, because anything else can be used by some maniac as a weapon..
Joke aside, I don't like where this world goes.. I am livinhg in a country where I saw a full range of goverment capatibilites in opressing general population, and camming down in anyone thinking oposite. Some of you know that I live in Serbia, a Serbia which did a therrible things to other, but which was represented only from one side. There were a lott of us completly against Milosevic, I was first time beaten by the police in 1990, in front of state TV, just because I protested against first signs of the war and lack of democracy.. And that terror continued for next 10 years, and lott of my friends finished dead, in therrible wars in which they were pushed against their will, just because we didn't had any mean to confront Milosevic..
But after Milosevic is gone, our weapons laws become much more restrictive, depriving normal people of any means of defending in some surcomstances.. Of course someone can say, Milosevic is gone, but who can guarantee that we wont elect some new Milosevic one day.. Or that something like that can't happen in France, or Gerany, or Uk.. Remember even Hitler came to power on elections..
Here is old German story, perfectly ilustrating what I am trying to say.. It is told by German democrat which survived Ausvic in WWII..
Everything I experienced in my life simply teached me that line should be drawn somewhere.. Or our children will realy live in padded rooms..
I hope that this isn't too political, but thats what I feel about that. If someone wants to discuss time under Miloosevic, I don't have to hide anything, and we can do that, but this is not a tread for that.. Could do that in apropriate forum..
Thans to all reading this.
Bogdan
But whats next, after they are robbed of their screwdrivers, criminals found new means of molesting population. Belive it or not, a ceramic tile. Belive me, ceramic tile can be wery dangerous in hands of anybody, so lets forbid ceramic tiles.. They can be produced and used, but people puting them in houses will go through special checkups, and police will spend a lott of money organizing ceramic tiles transports..
Of course on one late friday, some drunk boys will start fight with gl;*** bear bbottles.. General population, do you know how bear bottle is dangerous. Or even better, any glass object. So lets change glass with safe PET bottles.. What aboput keys, they also can be dangerous.. Ouch a nasty ballpoint pen, lets alow general population just soft tip pens, or even better calc one..
And in a fight if you push someone, it can fall and hurt himself on sharp corner of the furniture.. Well, new elections are close, lets forbid all furniture with hard, sharp corners.. That way we will much safer lives. And of course, with just a little propaganda, we won a new elections.
So at the end, what will be result.. Anything hard removed, even coconuts forbiden, you know how dangerous man with a coconut can be.. Life is wery safe in padded rooms, and we are feed through IV, because anything else can be used by some maniac as a weapon..
Joke aside, I don't like where this world goes.. I am livinhg in a country where I saw a full range of goverment capatibilites in opressing general population, and camming down in anyone thinking oposite. Some of you know that I live in Serbia, a Serbia which did a therrible things to other, but which was represented only from one side. There were a lott of us completly against Milosevic, I was first time beaten by the police in 1990, in front of state TV, just because I protested against first signs of the war and lack of democracy.. And that terror continued for next 10 years, and lott of my friends finished dead, in therrible wars in which they were pushed against their will, just because we didn't had any mean to confront Milosevic..
But after Milosevic is gone, our weapons laws become much more restrictive, depriving normal people of any means of defending in some surcomstances.. Of course someone can say, Milosevic is gone, but who can guarantee that we wont elect some new Milosevic one day.. Or that something like that can't happen in France, or Gerany, or Uk.. Remember even Hitler came to power on elections..
Here is old German story, perfectly ilustrating what I am trying to say.. It is told by German democrat which survived Ausvic in WWII..
Everything I experienced in my life simply teached me that line should be drawn somewhere.. Or our children will realy live in padded rooms..
I hope that this isn't too political, but thats what I feel about that. If someone wants to discuss time under Miloosevic, I don't have to hide anything, and we can do that, but this is not a tread for that.. Could do that in apropriate forum..
Thans to all reading this.
Bogdan
S
Skippy
Guest
you will find in this world that whatever is done is never enough...
when the government get rattled they will go to extreme lenghts, and believe me they can percieve anything as a weapon.
a very close friend of mine, a short time ago had a visit from special branch, who while on there visit decided to do a bit of redecoration for his flat, and after finding nothing but camping gear in his attic, turned to a box of lifeboat matches that he had left on the shelf, they picked them up suspiciously and turn to my friend and asked "and what are these" in a smug 'we've got you now' attitude, my friend had to restrain himself from replying "nuclear matchheads of course", which is just as well as they thought they where serious enough to confiscate them.
when the government get rattled they will go to extreme lenghts, and believe me they can percieve anything as a weapon.
a very close friend of mine, a short time ago had a visit from special branch, who while on there visit decided to do a bit of redecoration for his flat, and after finding nothing but camping gear in his attic, turned to a box of lifeboat matches that he had left on the shelf, they picked them up suspiciously and turn to my friend and asked "and what are these" in a smug 'we've got you now' attitude, my friend had to restrain himself from replying "nuclear matchheads of course", which is just as well as they thought they where serious enough to confiscate them.
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