Radio 4 - Re-introduction of wolves and beavers

[Shewie]

I caught the end of the Farming Today programme on the way into work this morning, they were discussing the reintroduction of beavers and wolves into this country again.

The iplayer link seems to be down at the moment but it`s definitely worth trying to hear it later.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/radio4_aod.shtml?radio4/fttw

 

[Enzo]

Cheers Shewie i will have a listen after i watch the football.

help bring me back down

 

[Bothwell_Craig]

Beaver reintroduction is already underway in Knapdale. I think Lynx is more a viable option in the highlands certainly than wolf. You just never know............

 

[Pang]

heard abot the reintroduction, been alot of debate, and always intresting. Would imagine if it did fall through, wild camping will be even more exciting and adventurous.

 

[trail2]

Wolves won't bother you when you are camping .Had them sing me to sleep many times in Canada,Wyoming and Montana.
The trouble with wolf reintroduction is they will start to kill sheep or get blamed for killing. Then they start to disappear and their radio collars vanish. Pups seem to never get to maturity. Well you get the idea!
Happens more than is said around the Yellowstone area.
That said they are wonderful to see in the wild and are a lot bigger than you think.

 

[Husky]

The trouble with wolf reintroduction is they will start to kill sheep or get blamed for killing. Then they start to disappear and their radio collars vanish. Pups seem to never get to maturity. Well you get the idea!
Happens more than is said around the Yellowstone area.

As in sweden.
The big problem here though is that they are taking a heavy toll on dogs, even if they are close to people and even teathered outside a house.

 

[hammock monkey]

Anthing that gets re-introduced will have positive and negative impact, but I'm all for it. Re-imburse the farmer for lost sheep and let them make easy money from wildlife tourism on top of that. This is exactly what needs to be encouraged in my opinion.
My main concern is for species such as the Scottish Wildcat - we already have an amazing predator thats been around since polar bear roamed the British Isles, but its overlooked.

I would LOVE to be able to see Lynx and Wolves in Scotland, I'd pay through the nose if need be to camp there - but not at the consequence of Wildcats.

I'm saying this as if I know for certain that a Lynx would threaten Wildcats, I don't, but it seems a fair assumption.

Its likely that Wildcats will become extinct in my lifetime - I'd rather put in the effort to save them first before re-introducing other species.

 

[Daegurth]

considering wildcats co-existed with these other species before, i'm sure they must have some kind of defense mechanism for larger predators. from what i read, it mostly seems to consist of a full force, full-frontal attack. a lone wolf or lynx would probably think twice- there's easier prey, hunting wildcats is pointless. a hunting group of wolves though... i'm not sure. the cat would probably rely on it's camouflage, speed, and tree-climbing.

 

[Pang]

Theres alot of talks about re-imburisng farmers adn such, however iin recent reports there shows a down turn in british farming, with goverment subsidising millions into the farming industry, sometimes to tell the farmers not to farm at all.

Maybe this reintroduction cud co-exist with farmers turned game keepers???? as i know alot of farmers are now being asked to keep a portion of their land to grow naturally to create wild life habitat in excahnge for money form the govt, maybe this cud be done with the reintroduction????

 

[hammock monkey]

Theres alot of talks about re-imburisng farmers adn such, however iin recent reports there shows a down turn in british farming, with goverment subsidising millions into the farming industry, sometimes to tell the farmers not to farm at all.

Maybe this reintroduction cud co-exist with farmers turned game keepers???? as i know alot of farmers are now being asked to keep a portion of their land to grow naturally to create wild life habitat in excahnge for money form the govt, maybe this cud be done with the reintroduction????

if people bought British it would help.
I think its becoming fashionable now, with all the realisation of what food miles are etc.

The wildlife tourism £ is a great way to encourage all this. There are many people who would happily pay to stay, visit or whatever. The better the wildlife, the more £'s spent - the more that can be invested.
Even though Wildcats did co-exist with Lynx and Bear etc the playing field was a little different, to re-introduce them to the modern scenario needs thinking through and effort to protect and help them flourish. I'm sure they would do it properly - which is why I'm so up for the whole thing.

I do find Beavers a strange choice due to their natural behaviour....

 

[Daegurth]

that's a fair point, wildcats don't have experience with the larger predators, having not seen them for 500- 1000 years. there are plenty of ways to manage the interaction between the species though, so i think it will be fine in the long run.

what bothers me more is the 92% mortality of the cats caused by humans...

 

[hammock monkey]

what bothers me more is the 92% mortality of the cats caused by humans...

where did you get that figure from Daegurth?


....blimey, if they actually did re-introduce Lynx and wolves - how effing amazing it would be

 

[Daegurth]

http://www.scottishwildcats.co.uk/wildcat.html - scroll down to biology and reproduction.

it does say "studies suggest" and "up to 92%," but still...


yeah, i'd spend pretty much every holiday in scotland if they did.

 

[trail2]

The problem is containment. Once the main pack out grows its range it starts to produce satellite packs. Then where do they go? They start encroaching of something else's habitat or farmers that REALLY don't want them around.
Don't get me wrong. I would like to see more reintroductions of native species but its not an easy thing logistically.
And it would no doubt bring in a bunch of Eco-tourism money to areas that could use it.
Jon R.

 

[louis_last]

Is anybody familiar with the alladale estate and what they're trying to do? it really pisses me off that the biggest obstacle to their plan is people objecting to their right to roam being restricted by the fences that would be necessary, surely they can just put stiles over the fences and make it absolutely clear that whilst you're free to walk through the estate, camping isn't allowed and that there is a certain risk of predation.

 

[stooboy]

Not sure the OP link is to the same radio reel as i heard no mention of wolfs in it but rather farmers coming out of their worst 20 years. So i can imagine they be thrilled to know their herds will be now faced with another predator. I agree with trail2 on this that they would "disappear",

The compensation idea would be very open to abuse, with detriment to the wolves if incorrectly accused just to get paid for a lame animal that was no longer financially viable, and i doubt the government could afford it at the moment.

The biggest problem of integrating wolfs would not be the wolves integration but rather the public's acceptance.

People are terrified of dogs, due to negative press (nanny state think knives also) particularly the famous rottweilers, dobermans and terriers you see on a regular basis in the press having mauled children, fear is a powerful thing and i don't think the general public which has been brought up around red ridding hood and the "big bad wolf" would take to it well, with sad and terrible consequences for mr wolf.

Stoo.

 

[locum76]

why reintroduce animals back into our ecosystem after we are already guilty of causing there extinction? the original reasons for hunting wolves to extinction still exist and won't go away.

we can't farm animals and have high end predators in the same space.

putting a fence around them is basically zoo keeping and possibly a bit of vanity on the part of the land owner (ooh look at my fancy beasts.)

within the next forty years we will have to grow more of our own food in Britain to try and keep up with the demand. there will be no space for wolves, we will have to actively farm that land.

apart from some small grants for tree planting, a lot of current agricultural subsidization is aimed at maintaining farmland until it is needed again. and it will be sooner than you think.
http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Agriculture/grants/LatestPayments/Background

 

[hammock monkey]

absolutely.
loads of problems to deal with, but its possible. Wide areas would need fencing and there would inevitably be the occasional injury, but I'd still vote yes, even if i was the one injured.

The price of the average sheep at market is so low its barely worth keeping them anymore, and while this would be a good reason to abuse the claim system I think the carrot of eco-tourism is far too large and would effectively win the day.

Who knows, its hard to say how it'll go, but it's worth a try.

To wild camp out in Scotland and hear the wolves at night would be fantastic, and the thought of glimpsing a Lynx...oh hell yes

What about bear.....a step too far? I'd still be well up for it, although camping out would involve a lot more thought

 

[locum76]

Beavers could be slightly better (more likely/ useful), they create lagoons and pools in riparian woodland. the Scottish exec are currently talking about creating wetlands to help clear our big rivers of agricultural pollutants.

maybe the beavers could be a natural creator of such wetlands?

also i resent somebody being given the right to fence off a whole estate just to keep pets (wolves). this is my land and its a free land.

(apologies for the double post and ranting)

cheers

rob

 

[louis_last]

why reintroduce animals back into our ecosystem after we are already guilty of causing there extinction?

.................because we're guilty of causing their extinction?