Keeping your knife sharp?

[Bernie Garland]

A steel? This is where the argument starts as to what is happening! I'm keeping out of this one!

there's no argument, but after spending three years of my life as a slaughter man,using stainless blades as opposed to 01 witch take and hold a better edge,iv'e not seem any slaughter men with stropping straps or blocks on there belt ,and we'd only sharpen 2 or 3 times a year well i did

 

[spamel]

I have no argument, but others will! In fact, i think this has been done a few times before. Something about the steel pushing the edge back true or something. That's what i seem to recall about it anyway! To be honest, whatever works for the individual has to be the correct way, doesn't really matter how we get there, but there are certainly a number of different methods to choose from.

 

[Bernie Garland]

any one can argue anything, but if your car breaks down you ask a mechanic,if the plaster falls of your wall you ask a plasterer,if the light go's out you ask an electrician and they all give you the correct advice,where did the ridicules stropping advice come from? if it worked why aren't butchers and slaughter men doing it, as you know i make knives and advise how to keep the edge on them, an instant here, diamond dave won the knife i auctioned for help the heros,and collected in person, he has been purchasing knives for years,but when i showed him how easy it was to put an edge and keep the edge on a knife he couldn't believe it,i'm not a magician its just common sense

 

[mr dazzler]

Not trying to be argumentative, but I dont think stropping is ridiculous advice although I used to think it was when I never had used it as a way to kep a good edge. I've used (at various times during the last 15 or 0 years, sandstone, carbide wheels, cloth wheels and compound, waterstoners, norton stones, files, diamond card's, wa****a's, slate, emory & glass, prety much anything. But I thought well hundreds of woodcarver's, and other people who use sharp woodworking tools all the time cant be wrong when they strop there tools as a matter of routine, so I took there advice against my better judgement and found it does make a difference as its less fuss, less noise, cheaper and you maintain a polished scalpel edge that burnishes the wood when it cut's, which suits me fine.
When you sharpen a blade with a butcher steel will it produce a wood-burnishing quality edge, that does not leave scratches on the fibre surface and cannot be improved but actually spoiled by sanding? That was the edge quality I always wanted, stropping proved to be the method that delivered best result's. I guess when your jointing carcasses you dont need burnished meat
Bernie, why not show some photos or a tutorial to show how a steel should be used, its always been a mystery to me how that work's.
Cheers Jonathan

 

[Bernie Garland]

Not trying to be argumentative, but I dont think stropping is ridiculous advice although I used to think it was when I never had used it as a way to kep a good edge. I've used (at various times during the last 15 or 0 years, sandstone, carbide wheels, cloth wheels and compound, waterstoners, norton stones, files, diamond card's, wa****a's, slate, emory & glass, prety much anything. But I thought well hundreds of woodcarver's, and other people who use sharp woodworking tools all the time cant be wrong when they strop there tools as a matter of routine, so I took there advice against my better judgement and found it does make a difference as its less fuss, less noise, cheaper and you maintain a polished scalpel edge that burnishes the wood when it cut's, which suits me fine.
When you sharpen a blade with a butcher steel will it produce a wood-burnishing quality edge, that does not leave scratches on the fibre surface and cannot be improved but actually spoiled by sanding? That was the edge quality I always wanted, stropping proved to be the method that delivered best result's. I guess when your jointing carcasses you dont need burnished meat
Bernie, why not show some photos or a tutorial to show how a steel should be used, its always been a mystery to me how that work's.
Cheers Jonathan

well jonathan
not being big headed here but here's the challenge, i will make two blades with scandi grinds both identical, you or any one else can take me up on this challenge,they use there stone's and strop, i use a steel and get a razor edge in 30 seconds or less you have to do the same,and you choose witch of the 2 blades you want,i would also want a witness from here or bb to clarify the winner,to verify which is the best method

 

[spamel]

Will you have the full scandi grind afterwards or is it a minute micro bevel that is being put on? I actually have a very small steel that I use now and then, but I fear it was a cheap one and does next to nowt anymore! The thing is, once you have that edge ground, you shouldn't need to use a stone that often anyway.

Dave's been getting a few knives lately! He must have won the lottery as I saw a few others destined for him with Stuart the other day.

 

[Bernie Garland]

Will you have the full scandi grind afterwards or is it a minute micro bevel that is being put on? I actually have a very small steel that I use now and then, but I fear it was a cheap one and does next to nowt anymore! The thing is, once you have that edge ground, you shouldn't need to use a stone that often anyway.

Dave's been getting a few knives lately! He must have won the lottery as I saw a few others destined for him with Stuart the other day.

pm dave and ask him what he thinks, talk to someone who's seen some thing and learnt something, and ask him if i gave him good advice and if thats the way he's going honing his knives

 

[mr dazzler]

Hi Bernie I dont want to get into some contest type thing I have nothing to prove.
I'll take your word for it that your method delivers a razoredge. But will it give a shiny burnished finish when you cut wood (especially dry hard wood's like oak or ash), which is what I want in my woodworking? (I do not use sandpaper) I only asked. If it is a good system (and I believe you man, no question) then why isnt it used by lots of people apart from in the meat industry. If it would improve my edge's I'd start straight away. Maybe you are the man to tell more folks how it works?
cheers Jonathan

Mind to be fair this thread started off specifically about KNIFE's, and I do use strop oon my gerber and opinel. But also axe's, adze, hook knife, carving chisles, framing chisle,etc, a broader range of woodwork tool's, whereas your maybe using knife more in the sphere of butchering up deer etc?

 

[Bernie Garland]

Hi Bernie I dont want to get into some contest type thing I have nothing to prove.
I'll take your word for it that your method delivers a razoredge. But will it give a shiny burnished finish when you cut wood (especially dry hard wood's like oak or ash), which is what I want in my woodworking? (I do not use sandpaper) I only asked. If it is a good system (and I believe you man, no question) then why isnt it used by lots of people apart from in the meat industry. If it would improve my edge's I'd start straight away. Maybe you are the man to tell more folks how it works?
cheers Jonathan

Mind to be fair this thread started off specifically about KNIFE's, and I do use strop oon my gerber and opinel. But also axe's, adze, hook knife, carving chisles, framing chisle,etc, a broader range of woodwork tool's, whereas your maybe using knife more in the sphere of butchering up deer etc?

i'm 53 years old and a carpenter and joiner by trade, and have been making high quality knives for the last 2 years, the offer is still open on how to get and hold an edge on any cutting tool
bernie

 

[Owen Bush]

a couple of things about sharp .

there is more than one type of sharp .

I have for years restored the edge cutting on kitchen knives by steeling one on the back of another .

steeling is a great way of keeping a knife cutting and a course stone (say 320 or so) will sharpen a knife super fast and leave it toothy and great for cutting flesh ,it isnt really all that sharp in the pedantic way being talked about here .
hair popping is only the begining of sharp .
push cutting a rizla without it tearing now that is sharp ,cutting 9 free hanging one inch hemp ropes (in a bundle) with one stroke is pretty sharp (new world record of 14 last weekend)

,and as far as getting a polished cut in wood some kind of stropping is needed to remove the burr that a steel keeps .
so horses for courses really when someone says sharp ask what kind of sharp, for cutting what ?

 

[Bernie Garland]

a couple of things about sharp .

there is more than one type of sharp .

I have for years restored the edge cutting on kitchen knives by steeling one on the back of another .

steeling is a great way of keeping a knife cutting and a course stone (say 320 or so) will sharpen a knife super fast and leave it toothy and great for cutting flesh ,it isnt really all that sharp in the pedantic way being talked about here .
hair popping is only the begining of sharp .
push cutting a rizla without it tearing now that is sharp ,cutting 9 free hanging one inch hemp ropes (in a bundle) with one stroke is pretty sharp (new world record of 14 last weekend)

,and as far as getting a polished cut in wood some kind of stropping is needed to remove the burr that a steel keeps .
so horses for courses really when someone says sharp ask what kind of sharp, for cutting what ?

at the end of the day a knife was designed for cutting flesh,now we can if we wish polish, it
for 2 or 3 weeks like they do a samuri sword to get those sort of results you mention,but 99% of knife owners only need a knife working sharp as i do,and meat trade workers who use knive's on a daily basis,i'm not saying you can't get them sharper, you can with alot of hard work then to loose the edge and repeat the laboureos process,all i need is a sharp knife for the tasks i want it for, and to maintain the edge as easy as possible as most knife owners

 

[mr dazzler]

Probably like bernie and most everyone else on here I dislike having to sharopen tool's, its time consuming and can interupt the flow of work. I agree Bernie, why spend time and effort (and of course money-theres a whole sharpening support industry out there that over complicate's and confuses people a lot) to take the sharpness of your working edge beyond the level required for the purpose in hand? I found that diamond's/gerber file's to be the least hassle, fastest ways to get a "good enough" edge on a knife or axe or bil hook, say, yes it would "cut", like with my axe (sandvik, but I just upgraded to roselli all round axe, which I havent used or sharpened yet) I can get a perfectly good edge to sned and trim in easily less than a minute with a little diamond card or gerber pencil file (diamonded) BUT if I want the real nice fine finish, that method doesnt cut it (excuse the pun ) as theres little fine scratches on the wood, which I do not want. Traditionally cabinet scarper's are used to get rid of those, I wanted to eliminate even that stage as I like a fresh spontaneous look and feel to the wood. Dust messes up my lungs real easy so I dont sand. Working in industrial scenario's has ruined my hearing so I dont like noise now either arthritis, carpel tunnel, I'm getting to be a dodery old ****
Didnt you ever get funny looks on site sharpening your plane blades with a butcher's steel ? I know they talk of wood butchers but I didnt know there really was one Just kidding, actually your method sounds pretty much like mine except I use a gerber or cheapo diamond rather than a butcher steel. In fact the card's are a bit too agressive My father in law used to be a butcher at one time, he gave us an old steel, but I havent had much sucess with it, I dont know the proper way. Can you get a good working steel for the same price as a gerber diamond file? I'm easy man I go with the flow, whatever works best taking into acount factor's such as cost, hassle, fuss, durability, speed, consistent result's etc. Maybe steel's are the way to go for some people? Have a great day :You_Rock_
Cheers Jonathan

 

[Owen Bush]

at the end of the day a knife was designed for cutting flesh,now we can if we wish polish, it
for 2 or 3 weeks like they do a samuri sword to get those sort of results you mention,but 99% of knife owners only need a knife working sharp as i do,and meat trade workers who use knive's on a daily basis,i'm not saying you can't get them sharper, you can with alot of hard work then to loose the edge and repeat the laboureos process,all i need is a sharp knife for the tasks i want it for, and to maintain the edge as easy as possible as most knife owners

Like i said horses for courses,stropping doesnt take a long time maby one to 2 minutes and makes a diference (I know that a steel would take a few seconds) .
Knives expecially bushcraft knives cut a lot more that just flesh and flesh is not the same as wood or rope or paper,different types of sharpening work better on one material than another (as do diferent grinds etc)IMHO
If your way works that is certainly good enough

 

[Celt_Ginger]

The fastest way i have yet found to get a blunt knife razor sharp is with a file and steel. Now I too spent 3 years working in a butcher's shop and learned to use a steel in a fast and efficient way, but I wouldn't discount stropping either. The old fashioned barbers all used strops to maintain razors, so there must be something in it. Personally though, I prefer a steel.

 

[wozbo]

id really like to see how you do it with the steel any chance of some tips to try.
warren

 

[Bernie Garland]

id really like to see how you do it with the steel any chance of some tips to try.
warren

your best bet is to buy some meat at your local butcher,and ask him to show you

 

[redneck]

I would rather shave my beard with a knife that had been stropped rather than one that had been "steeled"..but that's just me, I also prefer to sharpen my knives with a strop but maybe thats because i don't know how to use a steel properly..

 

[demographic]

I recently did some work at the Japanese Embassy and they were only too glad to let me have some of their finest spermicetti oil, used on samurai swords for centuries.Some may think it wrong to hunt such an intelligent mammal but, as they were quick to point out- if they are so intelligent why do they swim anywhere near the shores of the rising sun ?

It could also be argued that the people from the land of the rising son can't be that bright either if they havn't managed to find much worthwhile information in the years they have been "researching" whales...

 

[Bernie Garland]

The fastest way i have yet found to get a blunt knife razor sharp is with a file and steel. Now I too spent 3 years working in a butcher's shop and learned to use a steel in a fast and efficient way, but I wouldn't discount stropping either. The old fashioned barbers all used strops to maintain razors, so there must be something in it. Personally though, I prefer a steel.

the old barbers had to strop a razor, think about it,how fine is a razor to a knife,how can you steel a razor you can't it has to be stropped,but were talking about knives here not razors,thats the difference,and my offers still open to the stroppers 2 blades there choice of, 30 or less seconds or less to a shaving sharp working edge,if there's is a better and faster way proved by a member of this forum by stropping i will pay there expenses and give them the knife involved, if there method is better than mine i'll learn something new, so come on stroppers take the challenge,you all talk it, prove it

 

[spamel]

I don't think the time required is the issue here. I think the finish is why people strop. Anyway, I like to faze out whilst i sharpen knives, not much chance of that in 30 seconds! Obviously, you aren't gonna strop a knife to razor in 30 seconds unless yu use one of those tormek thingies!