Instinctive navigation

[Wayland]

I generally have a good sense of direction but why I couldn't say.

Having said that I have got it spectacularly wrong on a couple of occasions when I thought I knew better.

I suspect that I usually pick up on clues like the wind direction and suns position in the sky without really being aware of it.

I'm always watching the light from a photographic point of view so it's no great stretch of the imagination to thing that I get a bit tuned into it.

Overall though I prefer to keep a compass about my person most of the time.

 

[Bushwhacker]

I would love to see some evidence for this inbuilt navigation that's 'only in some of us'.

 

[Andy BB]

I actually believe that it is possible that our ancestors actually had a highly-developed "navigation" faculty. But it has weakened as we've evolved.

So obviously, those with a strong "navigation" sense are less-evolved than those of us relying on technological aids - the "missing links", as it were

 

[Wayland]

Theories like that tend to be based upon 18th and 19th century contact with "primitive" peoples who were perfectly at home in their own environment.

European explorers couldn't understand why they could find their way around without "scientific" navigational instruments so they supposed that they must have special senses that "modern" humans no longer possessed.

It's right up there with phrenology and craniometry as ways of proving that "we" are superior to "them".

 

[Fingle]

Funnily enough I was having a similar conversation with an old hand at this bushcraft lark, regarding navigation sans GPS, map, compass etc. His opinion was that we all have the ability to work out approximately where we are in relation to our environment. This means we all have an in built facility to navigate through our environment, wich becomes the framework for finding our way in a familiar environment. When we are in an unfamiliar environment we have the same ability but less information from memory, to compare to. It is his belief that our dependence on familiarity is what leads us astray. We think we recognise a bit of landscape, either from false memory or false expectation of what ground will look like. If we put aside the traditional navigation aids (but importantly keep them for backup) we can try and learn how to interpret the environmental data. He particularly uses (and gave me a quick demo) the position of the sun, stars, moon and weather. He had me tearing around the Welsh border using the sun, wind and ridge lines as reference points. I have resolved to get him to show me more.

I'm not saying this is a form of inbuilt GPS like in pigeons, more a different skill set, like using a fire drill or knowing where different wild foods are likely to be found.


Gfingle

 

[Andy BB]

Theories like that tend to be based upon 18th and 19th century contact with "primitive" peoples who were perfectly at home in their own environment.

European explorers couldn't understand why they could find their way around without "scientific" navigational instruments so they supposed that they must have special senses that "modern" humans no longer possessed.

It's right up there with phrenology and craniometry as ways of proving that "we" are superior to "them".

Clearly our sense of humour hasn't developed to offset the navigational loss

 

[Wayland]

Sorry if it came off as snippy, that wasn't how I meant it.

A lot of persistent and firmly held beliefs have origins in historical ignorance like the "horns on helmets" issue with the Vikings.

I spend my life having to set the record straight so I guess I come over as a bit trigger happy at times.

 

[320ccc]

We should conduct a test in the middle of the jungle.

actually (if you'd like to be embarrassed) try a city.

most of the us west of the mississippi is laid out on n/s e/w grid. pretty easy to get around on.

the earliest settlements and land were surveyed with some random vacant method of natural landmarks (which go away).

some cities are laid out in perfect squares as are most rural roads. determine your e/w line, n/s follows and off you go.

but what happens when things were set up with part of an area parallel to a river and the rest laid out with a news orientation? the correct answer is you get lost.

i don't know if it's a real term but i call the path some roads and boundaries are laid out on a meander line. they just go where they go. people ,i think, just meander as well.

i think you can learn and use some navigational cues. but i also think most people are lost most of the time

 

[ged]

actually (if you'd like to be embarrassed) try a city.

most of the us west of the mississippi is laid out on n/s e/w grid. pretty easy to get around on.

the earliest settlements and land were surveyed with some random vacant method of natural landmarks (which go away).

some cities are laid out in perfect squares as are most rural roads. determine your e/w line, n/s follows and off you go.

but what happens when things were set up with part of an area parallel to a river and the rest laid out with a news orientation? the correct answer is you get lost. ...

A loooong time ago I was working with some Americans on a business deal. They flew over to England (on Concorde) to meet the people involved and checked into a hotel (the Savoy). (They were that sort of people.)

This was the afternoon. They were due to meet us in Oxford in the evening.
Well, they had plenty of time so they decided to go and take a quick look at London.
A quick look was going to be, in their words later (much later) "a walk round the block".
In America, a walk round the block means that you walk, turn, walk, turn in the same direction, walk, turn in the same direction, walk, turn in the same direction, and walk back to where you started.
That might work in America, but about the only place it stands a chance in England is Milton Keynes and it sure as hell won't work on the banks of the Thames.
We didn't get to meet them that evening. They explained all this the next day.


If you want to read about some very impressive navigational feats, get hold of a copy of "We, the Navigators".

http://www.amazon.co.uk/We-Navigators-Ancient-Landfinding-Pacific/dp/0824815823

 

[BOD]

Having just come out of 4300 s km of jungle I can tell you the "natural" inbuilt navigation stuff is BS. Its all about being natuarlly observant or having to be trained. Some do it subconciously while the rest have to conciously do it.

You can dumb yourself easily. i have a good sense of observation but at a conciuous level and can find my way mapless and compass-less in areas I know but when I use the GPS track and focus on its track and surroundings, I found that I turned myself around as soon as i tired to go "instinctive" w/o the GPS.

 

[TomBartlett]

I've had similar experiences while out for a bimble, knowing which way home is without easily being able to say why. I think it comes down to what many people on this thread are saying - having an awareness of ones surroundings, subconsciously picking up on things like the position of the sun, landmarks, etc. That said, while in Thailand I did some jungle trekking. We stuck to the paths and if had you asked me to point to where camp was, I honestly don't think I could have. I'd put that down to lacking many of the aforementioned indicators (couldn't see the sun, too few recognisable landmarks, general unfamiliarity with the terrain).

 

[georann]

We stuck to the paths and if had you asked me to point to where camp was, I honestly don't think I could have. I'd put that down to lacking many of the aforementioned indicators (couldn't see the sun, too few recognisable landmarks, general unfamiliarity with the terrain).

See now I would have said the complete opposite. If I go for a walk I can always point the direction to where I started even without many indicators. I think I can tell subconciously how much I've turned and my brain adds it up to give the direction back.

 

[Bushwhacker]

See now I would have said the complete opposite. If I go for a walk I can always point the direction to where I started even without many indicators. I think I can tell subconciously how much I've turned and my brain adds it up to give the direction back.

Seriously, it's not possible.

 

[mousey]

See now I would have said the complete opposite. If I go for a walk I can always point the direction to where I started even without many indicators. I think I can tell subconciously how much I've turned and my brain adds it up to give the direction back.

Surely thats just a form of deadreckoning and as such an ability that everyone has [to a lesser or greater extent] as long as they pay attention to where they are going and keep a log mentally [or otherwise] of distance travelled and directions turned.

 

[georann]

Surely thats just a form of deadreckoning and as such an ability that everyone has [to a lesser or greater extent] as long as they pay attention to where they are going and keep a log mentally [or otherwise] of distance travelled and directions turned.

yes exactly

 

[kennyboy]

I'm exactly the same what i,ve figured is that i can "see" in my mind the route i've taken from above, just like looking at a map and always get back to where i started.......i thought it was just me.

Same here Robbi. Some people are naturals with Math, Athletics, crafts etc.. Guess some people are just natural navigators.

 

[Wayland]

Interesting example on Channel 4 last night in the "Hidden Talents" series.

Girl dropped off in an unknown area of Wales without map and compass after just looking for a while at a 12km route from a waterfall to a hill on a map.

To make things more difficult, they dropped her at the opposite end of the route to where she was expecting but she still completed the route in about two and a half hours on foot.

I would say that was fairly impressive however you go about achieving it.

 

[John Fenna]

When I was a regular orienteer and teaching (normal) navigation I had a very good "map memory" - now I am pretty average!
I think that kind of thing comes with use and training ... with natural aptitude helping!

 

[Urban X]

This is something I've wondered for years if everyone could do it or whether I had the lamest super power ever! Seriously though, I can always tell the direction I need to head back to where I started but not neccessarily the route or distance! Possibly something more of a human compass that youre brain subconciously remembers how much you have turned and in what direction so you can always find youre way back (I can also always seem to point north even in entirely new locations but I guess its something to do with sub-conciously picking up on things in the environment such as sun position). I accidentally put this to the test the other week when I went for a walk in my local forest and did the stupid thing of trying out a new route without map or compass! None the less found my way back to the start, with only a few points of wondering whether I was in fact lost!

Same here georann except I always know where South is, thus North is not too hard to find.

Never had any training whatsoever, not cubs, scouts, orienteering, military, etc., and never, ever, been lost. (Even underground when I'm exploring).

Skill, inbuilt awareness, supersense, whatever, I always know how to get back to where I came from and always know where South is to within a few degrees either way, doesn't matter where I am, travelled all over, totally new places, even if just for a day/night I'll find my way back to base, and if I've been anywhere once I can always get to that place again.

Bushwhacker you can say it's not possible, think I'm full of manure, whatever ya like, really doesn't matter lol, it works for me and that's all that matters, in fact it's really handy as I can't read maps or use a compass properly.

What does interest me is whether people who can do this can also measure by eye pretty accurately and tell what time it is with no watch? Apart from not getting lost I can also tell how far away something is and how big/small, wide, long, deep, etc., things are and tell the time to within probably 10 mins, with or without sun, day or night.

If anyone asked me 'how' I wouldn't have the faintest idea, I've never even thought about it, it's natural to me so I find it odd that other people I've been exploring with have to keep asking if I know the way all the time or how to get back to their cars??? Each to their own. [shrugs]


Si