Highlander pro-Force Challenger 400 sleeping bag

[Phineas]

Hi everyone,

I'm new to the website and I have a question.

Has anyone used this sleeping bag and, if so, what do you think of it?

I can find very little out about it on the 'net, other than the manufacturer's blurb.

The manufacturer and all other sellers that I have found list it as 2 kg (they don't say if that includes the stuff sack).

I have found out, from an honest Ebay trader, that the weight is actually 2.4 kg, and 2.6 kg with the stuff sack.

It sells for as little as £40. I'm not expecting miracles of it. I know that you get what you pay for and that's why the bag is big and heavy. What I want to find out is, is it warm enough for sleeping out (bivi and/or tarp) in lowland Britain throughout winter.

Thanks in advance for oyur opinions.

Best wishes
Phineas.

 

[The Big Lebowski]

If you send dave53 a PM, I'm shure he would be glad to help with a review... I dont know which model he has, but its a highlander, and he's well happy with performance!

atb, TBL.

P.s, welcome to the forum

 

[Phineas]

Thanks TBL.
I contacted dave53 and he's well happy with his Highlander sleeping bags. Bulky, heavy but very warm which is what I'm looking for. I'm not backpacking with it, just kipping in the woods.
And for £40 you can not worry about it getting damaged.

best wishes
Phineas

 

[Ray Britton]

Phineas.

If you are happy to shop around, then £40 for a sleeping bag is not especially cheap to be honest. For similar money Tesco do their own brand down sleeping bag, which weights approx one kilo, and packs to quite a small size. It would also be worth checking out Argos for their range of bags. It may come down to whether you have any particular preference for colour, although once your sleeping bag is in a bivvy bag, then should not make too much difference lol.

I don't know how much you know about sleeping bag fillings (so, ignore this bit if you do lol), but just as there are different qualities of down filling, there are also lots of different qualities of synthetic filling too. The Highlander bags traditionally used the very lowest quality of filling in their older bags, but better stuff in the latest ones (read on, and only buy a brand new one, as you will be doing)), which is why they need to be so very bulky to achieve their ratings. Basically, the hollow filaments of the sleeping bag filling trap air inside them, and this trapped air, then warms (from your lost body heat), and form the insulation. The empty space in between the filaments loses your warmth to the outside. Many years ago, manufacturers started to make the filaments with four holes in each (such as 'qualofill'), rather than one (these were twice as efficient, rather than four times as efficient lol), and modern expensive bags can have even more efficient filaments in them.
In basic terms, this means that the bag in question has to have twice the weight, and thus bulk of a more advanced bag to give you the same amount of insulation. This situation is made even more annoying when you consider that the insulation below you (when you are asleep) is doing very little, as you are crushing it, and removing its ability to trap air! (so carrying twice the bulk, just for the sake of it lol).

The highlander bag is not too bad (and the one you will be buying has better insulation), and many of the local cadet instructors (and cadets) use them, but they are nothing special IMHO (plus they do not sleep out in very cold weather), and you can get a warmer, but smaller packing bag for the same money. It may also be worth remembering that if the bag is thicker in volume (as this one is), then there is more opportunity for your sweat (in the form of vapour) to become trapped inside the shell of the bag, which not only makes the bag heavier to carry, but acts as a cooling agent during the night (which is counter productive to a good nights sleep)

Just a few thoughts

 

[Phineas]

Thanks for the input Ray. But it's waiting at the PostOffice depot for me as I write!

I understand about the fillings and their improvements over the years but I haven't bought a bag in 12 years so I don't know which are the good fillings anymore. The last bag I bought was a Snugpak but I can't afford them this time around. The snugpak I had was over rated temp wise. Supposed to be comfy down to 0* but I found it nowhere near enough for that temp in a tent and wearing clothes and hat.
So this time I thought I'd go for a bag with a much lower temp rating as weight isn't an issue. 400g/sqm sounds like a lot of filling even if it's not the best quality.

I would like to bivi/tarp camp in the winter with it though. Worst case scenario is I'll have to get a thermal liner perhaps or double it up with my summer bag.

What would you say is as warm or warmer for the same or less money then?

I'll let you know what I think of the Hightlnder.

Best wishes
Phineas

 

[Old Bones]

Temperture ratings on sleeping bags is a bit of a dark art - there was a question about the Highlander Phantom 250 a while back - Endicotts loved it but reckoned down to minus 3, while Highlanders own website (and of course all the other websites) thinks minus 15 as a an extreme rating is fine.

If you want to increase the rating with a liner, then try TKMaxx - the Trekmates one is £9.99 there, whereas its £20 in Cotswold. Blacks were doing a Lifeventure silk liner a little while back for £20.

I've got an old Snugpack Osprey 12 - but if I'm going to buy another bag, its going to be down, and probably Alpkit - the prices are about the same as a good synthetic bag, but much smaller and lighter. Dont forget to get a drybag for it (The Alpkit XT's a fantastic and really well priced http://www.alpkit.com/shop/cart.php?target=product&product_id=16469&category_id=295 . I hope it comes with a compression bag, cos your going to need one...

 

[Phineas]

As a general rule I add 10* to a manufacturers rating.

I've got to say, Alpkit bags look great. Had my eye on them but I need to spend money on other stuff at the moment and weight and size aren't really an issue as I'm not carrying it far.

What do you think of the Osprey 12? How low a temp have you slept in comfortably in it?

 

[Ray Britton]

Phineas

Bearing in mind its too late lol, its always worth keeping an eye on what Argos are selling. Each year they have a few good down bags that are made by reputable companies, and then sold cheaply as unbranded, or by an Argos brand.

If anyone is ever in doudbt as to the warmth of any bag, then the only sure way to find out is by researching it yourself. Although various companies try to apply spurious temp ratings to their bags, or hide poor performance with 'tog' ratings, there are also BS/CE certified standards that bags can be measured to, and these are consistant.
As I am sure you already know, the quickest way to 'up' the rating of any bag is to wear a hat, and possibly DRY socks as well. A silk liner will add approx 4 degrees C to the warmth rating, for only approx 100-130 grammes extra weight.

The other important aid to a warm night is dependent on whatever type of mat you choose too, as the bags rating will be assuming you are using a mat, and will have included the R value of a mat to the bags comfort ratings already.

I always find it interesting just how different various folks find their sleeping bags for warmth. A few weeks back I was out overnight with my partner and overnight the temp dropped to minus 1 C. I was in an old battered Vango bag rated at +5 C, and was OK. She was in a 0 degrees C bag, inside of a second minus 5 C bag, and was still cold!

 

[Phineas]

Hi everyone,

i got the Highlander Challenger 40 on friday. I spent the weekend end assessing it. I haven't used it because I bought it knowing I may want to send it back. I decided that as there is no info available on the 'net that the only way to find out what it is like was to see one for myself.


It is a huge sleeping bag. I expected it to be large because i suspected that a soldier would want to sleep in it in full kit, but it is way way bigger than I though. No wonder it is heavy. It's not just because it has a lot of filling in it.

In short, I'm returning it. Although, at first, for £40, it looks like an ok bag it doesn't take long to notice that the zip baffle is puny with hardly any filling and the filling stays away from the zip area. So you have a strip 2-4" wide with no insulation in it, right down the middle of the bag over the middle of your body. I don't fancy kipping in that.

I'm now thinking of paying £68 for a Snugpak Softie Chrysalis Winter bag. I've used Snugpak for walking long distance footpaths in the past and, unless they've changed drastically since, I know they are great quality.

Thanks for your opinions folks

Phineas.

 

[northumbrian]

why not buy a army surplus one they are made for the cold and i got an excellent one hardly used for £39 ?

 

[snozz]

Totally agree with the Army bag sugestion - they may be big but they are toasty warm!

Do a search for Army Arctic Sleeping Bag on fleabay and you'll find several at the moment for under £40

Snozz

 

[sapper1]

Phineas

Bearing in mind its too late lol, its always worth keeping an eye on what Argos are selling. Each year they have a few good down bags that are made by reputable companies, and then sold cheaply as unbranded, or by an Argos brand.

If anyone is ever in doudbt as to the warmth of any bag, then the only sure way to find out is by researching it yourself. Although various companies try to apply spurious temp ratings to their bags, or hide poor performance with 'tog' ratings, there are also BS/CE certified standards that bags can be measured to, and these are consistant.
As I am sure you already know, the quickest way to 'up' the rating of any bag is to wear a hat, and possibly DRY socks as well. A silk liner will add approx 4 degrees C to the warmth rating, for only approx 100-130 grammes extra weight.

The other important aid to a warm night is dependent on whatever type of mat you choose too, as the bags rating will be assuming you are using a mat, and will have included the R value of a mat to the bags comfort ratings already.

I always find it interesting just how different various folks find their sleeping bags for warmth. A few weeks back I was out overnight with my partner and overnight the temp dropped to minus 1 C. I was in an old battered Vango bag rated at +5 C, and was OK. She was in a 0 degrees C bag, inside of a second minus 5 C bag, and was still cold!

Ray ,You say that a silk liner will ad 4 degrees to a sleeping bag,can you explain how this works.I use a silk liner to keep the bag clean but can't see how a single layer can give such a huge increase in insulation.
Thanks

 

[Woodcutter]

Army Arctic bag is the way to go.

 

[drewdunnrespect]

now if you trully want warmth on mahoooosive scale you need a snugpack antarctica RE that goes down to minus 50

 

[Phineas]

I was looking at an army arctic bag on saturday as it happens. Seemed really heavy though. Felt like way more than the 2.5 kg Highlander.

What do they weigh?

Felt very well made and had a huge zip baffle. Quie the opposite of the Highlander.

 

[R3XXY]

Another vote for the army arctic bag, my only beef with it is that it doesn't have a shoulder baffle, but for the money you won't find a warmer bag, well worth the weight and bulk on a frosty english night.

 

[Ray Britton]

Sapper1

Hi. Silk is a marvelous, and often misunderstood material. Now, although I think it looks best as some skimpy garment on a leggy blond, it does also make very good male underwear, and bag liners too lol.

Silk is a natural material, but just like some man made ones, it does not absorb moisture, so works well as underwear as it does not get smelly. As for the science bit, I cannot remember why a very thin material works so well as an insulator. Obviously it is very closely woven, so will trap warm air, and also will not get damp like cotton can, so will stay warmer (less heat lost through conduction to damp material). It is also very light, and so tends to sit well on you while you sleep, thus avoiding air gaps too.

Experiments (not done by me, but in a lab) say that a silk liner will increase your sleeping bags rating by 4 degrees C. So in reality it will stop you getting 4 degrees colder, as opposed to warm you by 4 degrees (sorry if that is what you thought I meant).

In warmer weather, or if I choose to sleep during the day, then often just the silk liner by itself will be enough to keep me comfortable!

As a very non scientific example: on some occasions where the weather has dropped to below freezing, I have woken in my summer bag (yes I still use it in the cold LOL) shivering. By adding the silk liner (which lives in the bottom of the bag) this allows me to go back to sleep and have an OK night. Obviously, I am talking of when the temp drops to minus to or three, and not minus forty lol.