Forging

[John Fenna]

Enthused by what I saw Dave Budd producing from his "Iron Age " forge at the Moot I decided to try my hand at this game...
While waiting for my wife to come home with a couple of disposable BBQs I used a simple blow torch, two pairs of pliers and a couple of hammers, plus a railway line "anvil and a cheapo vice to turn a couple of lengths of mild steel bar (once upon a time they were stay bars on a pasting table...) into usable (but not overly pretty ) pot hooks for holding my billies over the fire. Both have 'ornamental' curlicues at the ends and a squared off central portion which was then given an'ornamental' twist. They are too ugly to warrant photos but will live by the firplace in my little bit of woodland......
With the BBQs in hand I rigged up my "forge"...the said BBQ on top of a big old fire brick, on top of a cheapy "Workmate" clone, next to my "anvil" on top of a round of an ash tree, in my garage. I rigged up a bellows from an airbed footpump and a length of metal pipe foraged from the rubbish pile at the Moot (I knew it was too good to waste...) which was bent and fed through the side of the BBQ tray.
The system worked well and while waiting for the coals to get hot enough to get a length of old file up to working colour I forged yet another stay bar into a "charcoal rake " with a hook at one end and a coiled handle at the other, plus an 'ornamental' twist in the middle.
The file I chose to try and turn into a "pretty" steel striker (for use with flint), proved hard to get to heat and stayed working colour only for a few hammer blows at a time....and I ran out of charcoal before I had even finished drawing out the metal to form the "tail".:togo:

So endeth my first trials in forging steel....but once I get more fuel I will try my hand again!
This forging thing is addictive and I will be going down to Dave Budds place in Sept to try my hand at forging a knife!

 

[Mike Ameling]

And thus another person becomes addicted to blacksmithing.

A good simple air supply blower is as close as that old hair dryer/blower in the junk drawer or at a boot sale. Even purchased new from the store. A little "duct tape" will adapt it to your pipe to blow into the fire. And it doesn't matter if it still heats the air going in. If it blows too much air into your fire, just cover some of the intake vents with some duct tape.

And any pieces you make for yourself are worth pictures - said by one who almost never takes pictures of the items he makes.

Mikey

 

[Ogri the trog]

Great stuff John,
your set-up sounds a bit more sophisticated than my first goes..... I used the kitchen range - stacked high with coal and both vents open - it was roaring. Plunge the file into the red, wait awhile, drag it out with a set of mole grips - scurry out through the kitchen door and whack it a few times before coming back to the range..... Like you say, nothing pretty but an Allen Key that now has a cutting edge and a piece of old coil spring that does duty as a striker.
Thoroughly enjoyed the whole thing and a chopped gas bottle forge is on the cards for sometime soon.

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[John Fenna]

I like the idea of a kitchen range being less sophisticated than a disposable BBQ!
I realy ned something that will hold more fuel......

 

[launditch1]

Excellent!I think its addictive and will get right under your skin..I know it has me!

Dont be shy,show the hooks!

 

[John Fenna]

As well as yet another pot hook I have just forged a piece of file into (almost) a fancy fire striking steel...
I say almost as the tail I had 'drawn out' first of all split into two tails, then one tip snapped, then the other tip did as well...this left me with enough tail to forge into an eye instead of a nice handle.
It is all still too crude to photograph but I am getting better heat from the "forge" using the wifes hairdrier taped to a hazel tripod and suitable 'aimed' at the fire....the footpump nozzle melted where it joined the metal pipe and clogged.....

So far I have used about £10.00 worth of charcoal to produce about £2 worth of kit, but have sweated off about 1/2 a stone and developed a right arm like Arnies...
Good game this!

 

[Shewie]

Brilliant John, I often wondered what those blank pages were for in the back of your DIY book. Now I know

Look forward to seeing some piccies when you're happy enough to share them.

 

[John Fenna]

That will depend on me finding some more steel - I have used up my current stock - and lots more practice, possibly a better forge arrangement and the time to wack some steel ito something resembling a useful tool

 

[Shewie]

Somebody over the road had put an old rusty kettle bbq in a skip the otherday, I did think about grabbing it for something similar but SWMBO gave me one of those looks so I left it.

 

[relfy]

Wow, 10 out of 10 for getting stuck-in, John! It certainly appeared a very satisfying pass-time wacking hot metal into submission I grilled Dave about the possibilities of working glass using a similar 'kiln', but we decided it would only really be possible with very small pieces (beads and wotnot) due to the long and delicate annealing process.... but anyway you can't beat glass with a big hammer, so not quite as fun You have spurred me into thinking I should have a go at this now though... unfortunately I didn't watch all of the process from beginning to end. Could you or someone-in-the-know give a bit of a summary so that we know what the different stages are and what you do to get different results (strength/ maleability etc)?

 

[John Fenna]

Get an old file, put it in the heat until it is red or orange then bend/beat it until it fades to dark red, then heat it up again.... when you have done beating and bending - plunge it into water until it is cold and black.....worked for me so far - the probs came when I a/ got it too hot (yellow and upwards) or tried to beat/bend when it had too dark a red....
I will be hunting steel and an old pot in charity shops tomorrow, to find more steel to torture and to refine my forge...I melted out the bottom of my "forge" today - disposable BBQ trays just are not tough enough!

 

[groundhog]

I watched a Ron Hood primitive knifemaking video where he visited two makers from the neo-primitive metalworkers group. One used what he called an adobe forge basically a trough made from clay on the ground with a steel pipe protruding into the bottom linked to a hand cranked blower, and the other used a galvanised steel washing tub lined with wood ash which insulated the metal and stopped it melting. Seems like good fun and I'll try it soon.

 

[relfy]

Ah. Ok John Even I know its a bit more complicated than that - the speed at which it cools effects the maleability / tensility. You may have something that is the right shape - but when tested, is not up to the job - bends or breaks. The thing is - I don't know the details - maybe Dave Budd can enlighten us if he sees this thread?

 

[Shewie]

Ah. Ok John Even I know its a bit more complicated than that - the speed at which it cools effects the maleability / tensility. You may have something that is the right shape - but when tested, is not up to the job - bends or breaks. The thing is - I don't know the details - maybe Dave Budd can enlighten us if he sees this thread?

Ashley's got some good stuff on his site Relfy

http://www.naturalbushcraft.co.uk/making-my-first-knife#The Forge

 

[John Fenna]

Ah. Ok John Even I know its a bit more complicated than that - the speed at which it cools effects the maleability / tensility. You may have something that is the right shape - but when tested, is not up to the job - bends or breaks. The thing is - I don't know the details - maybe Dave Budd can enlighten us if he sees this thread?

Ah - but I am only making steels - need to be very hard so a quick quench in water - and pot hooks from mild steel so a quick quench in water makes em fine!

 

[launditch1]

If youre going to have a go forging,its probably best to try it out on a piece of mild steel.Its much more forgiving when practicing the correct temperatures to bash it.
I forge MS at about a bright yellow heat(in the shade)It moves easier at this heat.Bends and twists i would do at a red/orange colour as you will have more control over what it does.
Carbon steel,tool steel,old files are a different ball game!It shouldnt be heated above a cherry red and hammering should stop when it drops below a dull red heat.The item should also be normalised after forging as the hammering will have set up internal stresses in the metal.Then anneal the finished item,ie let it cool down as slowly as possible.

Thats it in a nutshell.I could show this much better than explaining it!

 

[Dave Budd]

ah the joy of hitting hot metal

Each type of steel (or iron) has it's prefered working temperature range. Some like mild have a wide range (about 700 degrees from too cold to too hot), others like D2 have a very narrow range (about 90 degrees!). The trick is to find the right colour for the steel that you are working

As a rule of thumb, work carbon steels in range from mid red to mid orange (some prefer only the reds or only the oranges, but you'll soon work that out!), mild can be worked anywhere from black up to white (basically until it starts to spark). The hotter the metal is then the faster it will move, so start hitting it at the upper working limit and continue until it gets to the lower limit or it is no longer efficient to do so (for example beating a big lump of mild down will be more efficient to reheat when it drops to red rather than take the extra time to get it hot again having worked it in the stiffer dull ranges). The more carbon or the more highly alloyed it is then the more careful you have to be with the temperature control (hence springs are easier than files and mild is just child's play by comparison)

Basically, as I tell my students (repeatedly): if it ain't red, don't hit it!


What John says about forging a firesteel is spot on. Get it hot, hit it until it's not hot enough. repeat until it gets to the shape you want. Get it hot again and cool it fast. job done. Tinker with the temperatures and quenching medium to find what works best for you and your chosen steel.


So when are you going to show us some of your work then John?

 

[John Fenna]

The Master asks - I must comply!

The pothangers were originaly support struts from a paste table and I tried to get artistic with the ends - curls, centres - twists and the shape of the shafts.......I was never much of an artist....
The steel striker was going to have a curly handle - but it broke!
However - it is a great sparker and is comfortable to use.
I stamped the steel "JF 1" as it will be the first of many - hopefully!

I still have a long way to go before I am happy though - despite the fact all the items are "fit for purpose"

 

[maddave]

Good effort John. Once ya start there are allsorts of possibilities

 

[smoggy]

It's only a mattor of time before you're banging out Damascus Steel Axe Heads....

Smoggy