For Sale Ray Mears 25th Anniversary knife

[Humpback]

Now I am confused. You want people to be able to make their own decisions as grown ups, yet there are young people on these forums and this is the reason a new members videos were recently taken down and posts are removed to protect the young and innocent.

If a junior has several hundred pounds to spend on a knife I would hope their parents would keep an eye on them, don't you? Mind you might be a case of more money than sense!

So what would have happened if a young person (18 maybe, a bit naïve perhaps) had bought the knife and got ripped off. There is no minimum post count to sell something and that knife is worth a lot of money, so any random person can come here with a 250 quid knife, pay a tenner to sell it and walk away with an extra 200 quid, and could then not bother sending the knife. People get mugged off all the time, and don't you think with eBay's ban on knife selling, this may start to happen more and more and eventually an unscrupulous person will be in here ripping forum members off (That sounds painful! ) and it could become a regular occurrence. I'm not saying it will happen, but the odds are on that it could, and if people get used to a person joining, selling and never coming back and the deal works fine, then eventually people will become blase about worrying if they will be ripped off.

Hence my reference to common sense (grown up decisions). Number of posts is not an absolute quantifier of honesty is it?

I am still owed a Leatherman Wave and Innova torch from a member of British Blades who was a Moderator there! I had absolutely no reason to mistrust him, sent the items off in good faith to have a sheath made for them both and never saw my goods again. His sister was also a Moderator there, and she has done the same thing to others. If I can be ripped off by somebody who had that sort of a standing on an internet forum and who many people trusted and respected, don't you think it is possible that a new member could do the same?

I'm sorry you were ripped off on another forum.

But again the logic of post numbers (I'm assuming) didn't have relevance. Yes a new or old member could be dishonest. Common sense tells me that I want safeguards if I'm parting with a lot of money, as with this knife or the canoe I bought through ebay and collected. Afterall crooks are cannie, just take the example of the Nigerian General who took my life savings last week
I do understand and commend your intention of warning people and I didn't intend to confuse anyone, so I hope my answers have helped.
Best regards

Alan

 

[spamel]

Some people have money, others don't. If an 18 year old has enough money to buy doesn't mean he will be worldly wise and could get seen off. I just think that allowing somebody to potentially see somebody off just because they've paid a tenner is a bit crap. Regardless of the possible situations, a person can spend ten quid here having never posted before and sell something of great value and if the deal goes wrong the buyer has no comeback. I think it is an abuse of the system.

 

[Humpback]

Spamel
Why don't you start a thread on this topic in Other Chatter, I'm sure it will be a better site for this discussion after all this 'horse has bolted' and I'll join you there?
Alan

 

[spamel]

I've said my piece. I think the lackadaisical attitude towards this way of buying membership to turn a profit is quite shocking, and if people cannot see it for what it is then maybe they deserve to be ripped off. Maybe not today, tomorrow or next week, but one day it will happen. I just hope the person that gets stung doesn't whinge and cry about it and takes it for what it is: an inevitable action that was foreseen and ignored.

 

[joejoe]

is it a workable idea to put money and item through a third person. as spammel says this is a arip off waiting to happen

 

[rancid badger]

Spamel
Why don't you start a thread on this topic in Other Chatter, I'm sure it will be a better site for this discussion after all this 'horse has bolted' and I'll join you there?
Alan

I think thats a really good idea

R.B.

 

[Dougster]

I'm sorry to bring this up again, but this is mad.

A forum, a society, an organisation cannot be held responsible for an individual being a complete burk and handing over hundreds of pounds for something over the internet.

If you are stupid and do so, that's your own lookout and darwin got it wrong. Most folk will find a self protect response that will protect things a little.

I am starting to get seriously hacked off with rules being passed to protect the minority of muppets which just hinder the majority. For example I cannot set my own monthly payments for my credit cards because people did not sort their own and complained...

It's a sales thread. It should contain sales information. Full stop.

 

[spamel]

So you welcome the potential of rip off merchants paying to sell here and potentially ripping off a member here, just because they paid ten quid for the privilege? Although I understand from first hand experience that a member with a post count in the thousands and of good standing for a number of years can still go bad, the potential for a "first post is a sale" member to rip someone off is much higher. I bet this isn't the last person to join just to flog a Woodlore knife. It'll go wrong eventually, mark my words. I'm dropping out of this now, I have nothing more to say on the matter, but I will come in and laugh and point my finger at the fool who eventually gets ripped off and tell them I told you so.

 

[Martyn]

I am still owed a Leatherman Wave and Innova torch from a member of British Blades who was a Moderator there! I had absolutely no reason to mistrust him, sent the items off in good faith to have a sheath made for them both and never saw my goods again. His sister was also a Moderator there, and she has done the same thing to others. If I can be ripped off by somebody who had that sort of a standing on an internet forum and who many people trusted and respected, don't you think it is possible that a new member could do the same?

You've just destroyed your own argument. If people with a good history and who are fairly well respected, can fall off the rails and default on a trade, then what possible guarantee can you offer? You could be ripped off by your mother, brother, son, best friend, local shopkeeper, bank manager - anyone. The best you can do is make a judgement as a grown up, intelligent person, but every interaction comes with risks. That's the nature of dealing with people. What's the alternative? You either allow people to be adults and make their own choices, or you treat them as idiots and prevent them from selling things for their own good. I prefer to be treated as an adult. Yes, people will get ripped off. They always have and they always will - caveat emptor.

 

[Tony]

Firstly apologies to Storah for such a thread being orientated around you and secondly, congratulations on selling the knife and to the buyer.

I'm not sure yet about splitting this thread off as it would lose its context, we'll see.
Why is there an issue here? If someone had lost £400 odd they would go to the police and then the police would come to me and because we have a system in place that can record details we have a path back to the person making the sale if it goes wrong, having someone that’s made lots of posts does not give as much assurance as someone that has paid to become a full member and given details to do so.

If anyone sells or buys and is out of pocket and they want to pursue it they can contact us, we will look at it, if they want to recover their monies and they’re struggling to do so they can go to the police and the police can contact us and we’ll help them get it all sorted.

That seems very straight forward to me, then of course you’ve got some common sense on top of that where people can weigh things up and decide for themselves if it’s worth buying or selling.

Spamel, you obviously don’t think twice about jumping in on someone else’s thread and ripping into them and anyone else that you feel like, bit weird that as usually you’re the one that puts on your vigilante cape and boots and jumps in at every opportunity to defend peoples rights with the punchline….”bcuk treats people awfully especially newbie’s!” As someone that may have come back he’s far less likely to now that you’ve taken exception to him. Funny that considering he’s probably more traceable than you and therefore a safer bet if the police ever needed to come and recover anything.

I've said my piece. I think the lackadaisical attitude towards this way of buying membership to turn a profit is quite shocking, and if people cannot see it for what it is then maybe they deserve to be ripped off. Maybe not today, tomorrow or next week, but one day it will happen. I just hope the person that gets stung doesn't whinge and cry about it and takes it for what it is: an inevitable action that was foreseen and ignored.

Of course spamel you’re entitled to your opinion, although once again you’re misinformed or you’re just malicious, I’m undecided. What I do know though is once again you’ve come out of the woodwork to have a go at someone, you make some good posts now and then and I like you, but I do wonder why on earth you come on bcuk, you don’t like it, it doesn’t make you happy (unless you do enjoy getting stuck in all the time) you slag bcuk off on other forums etc but you still come here, no idea why but it’s getting tiresome especially when you contribute little and we have to spend time dealing with you. You use bcuk and going by this thread amongst others, you abuse people (when you decide it’s appropriate of course) and I supply that stage to you for free, something wrong there as well, at least others have the integrity to help support the site they use or at least contribute in a positive way.

but I will come in and laugh and point my finger at the fool who eventually gets ripped off and tell them I told you so.

This is what you seem to do best, which is a bit sad really.

I’m more than happy for you to carry on visiting bcuk, I expect that many of those that help to support the site would like to see you around contributing to the community with some more great posts, but if you can’t just get on and enjoy being here there’s little point in coming, is there?

So, once again apologies to storah for the thread hijack and for such a thread being in the classifieds, you’re completely correct Dougster (quote edited)

I'm sorry to bring this up again, but this is mad. It's a sales thread. It should contain sales information. Full stop.

Just so people don’t miss the point, having people as FM’s is more secure than having a high post count (we obviously have to have a payment path with information) and if anyone decides to go to the police we’ll help where we can, although I hope that never happens, we’ve been going for over 6 years now and there’s been few issues.

I’ll close this thread now, if anyone wants to PM me about it feel free, although not to whine at me