Fishing. info for noob?

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irishlostboy

Nomad
Dec 3, 2007
277
0
Eire
hey, i am looking for info on how to get started with how to catch fish. ideally without a full rod. with a hand line type set-up is my goal. i used a funky handline thing as a kid in NZ to catch eels for the cats, but the only reason i caught any is because the river was STUFFED with the horrible creatures. now i want to learn how to catch fish by more than just luck and dont know where to begin.

sooo, if anyone could direct me to websites, forums and articles on getting started on fish catching it would be sweet.
 

elevenses

Forager
Jan 7, 2008
163
0
cheshire
I'm relatively new to the fishing thing myself but here is my 2 penneth

depends what you want to catch and where you are fishing

at the basic level you will need

fishing line in my experience 2-4lb breaking strain is enough for most small fish for bigger fish you probably better with a rod or stick

an assortment hooks (I prefer non barbed but its up to you) I would say sizes 12, 10, 8 maybe a 14

some sort of float either a bought one or a bit of cork

some split shot weights.

if you are not using bait you could try using lures (you then don't need a float, weights and hooks as the lures come with a hook) there is hundreds of lures and everyone has an opinion whish are best so need to experiment.

something to act as a reel either an old tin or maybe one of those bottles with large screw lid so you can store all the above in it. What ever it is it needs to be smooth

hope this of some use and good luck


PS forgot to add you need a fishing licence !!
 

mick miller

Full Member
Jan 4, 2008
520
0
Herts.
Hi Lostboy, it's worth checking the Eire regulations on fishing with a handline.

In England it's illegal for freshwater but acceptable for sea fishing, the freshwater licence only covers you for a maximum of two rods and line, so you have to fish with a 'rod and line' unless you have sought permission in advance.

Eire freshwater laws are similar. The Scottish laws are a little different also, so checking in advance is always good practice.
 

fishy1

Banned
Nov 29, 2007
792
0
sneck
Well, I don't use handlines that much, but have occasionally. Using a spinner would probably be your best bet, for anything that eats bait you could just use a set line and that would enable you to set more hooks and catch more.

What species are you targetting? Sea or freshwater? Loch? River?

If freshwater for game fish, salmon eggs or prawns can be very effective, and worms are OK. Especially the large worms you catch at night in the grass with a torch, which can be a sport in itself as they are very fast and fairly strong.

I personally have never used split shot or similar. If on a budget, stones will do fine for weights, or use a stick for a float.

From experience, if you are setting lines for game or sea fish, 4lb line will be too low, as you have no elasticity in the line and no rod, try 10lb and even then an occasional big fish will snap it.

When I set lines in the sea, I typically use 50lb line for the snoods, the only things that will break it are species with sharp teeth, like larger sharks, for them I'd use metal traces.
 

irishlostboy

Nomad
Dec 3, 2007
277
0
Eire
good pointer on licencing. i hadn't thought of that factor at all.

as for what areas/ species i would probably go for; lough or river fishing. probably pike and/or trout (i think there are also a lot of perch in the lakes and rivers in our area, but i am not sure if they are edible.
i dont actually like eating fish really. but i feel i should at least learn how to catch the blighters as it is probably the most effective method of getting food in the wild in the northwest of ireland. we have loads of water.

how effective is it releasing a caught fish after you have brought it in? if i dont want really want to eat it, i would rather not kill it (if i do kill it, i will eat it anyway. waste not want not)
but i want to know it wont go belly-up five minutes after letting it go. would non-barbed hookes be more effective for this?
 

fishy1

Banned
Nov 29, 2007
792
0
sneck
With a set line, it could well be dead when you bring it in, doesn't happen all the time but does sometimes. With spinners and treble hooks, fish are hard to unhook and could die, not very often though. With bait, fish can be deep hooked (swallow it) and die later or be impossible to unhook. Fly fishing is the failsafe way if you want to return fish, they always swim back. Not very bushcraft though.

Perch are edible, but not very pleasant, probably be better in some kind of strong sauce.
Trout are excellent eating. Pike are bony but fine.
 

cheapeats

Forager
Feb 20, 2008
125
0
New England
if you are not concerned about losing a few hooks you can always cut the line right at the fish's mouth. They say the hook will disolve and the fish will be unhurt. As a matter of fact in the US it is acceppted practise that if a protected species is caught the line is to be cut.
 

StJon

Nomad
May 25, 2006
490
3
61
Largs
I am sorry to see that set line is being recommended. In fresh water it is illegal and in salt water not very sporting. In a real survival situation it would be okay but thats not what we are talking about here. You have some of the best fishing in the world with local clubs owning rights to fish it. Join a local club, you will get good advice and try out various bits of tackle. Please do not fish Illegally, real fishermen are environmentalists. Tight lines,
jon
 

Mang

Settler
I prefer non barbed but its up to you

always cut the line right at the fish's mouth. They say the hook will disolve and the fish will be unhurt.


The issue of getting a hook out has always put me off fishing. Is there a failsafe method of taking a barbed hook out?

In England it's illegal for freshwater but acceptable for sea fishing

This is a bit odd...Almost as odd as tickling being outlawed

Perch are edible, but not very pleasant

I've had Perch before and it was excellent...Perhaps it needs soaking in a change of water?
 

mick miller

Full Member
Jan 4, 2008
520
0
Herts.
Hi Lostboy,

On the subject of catch and release; it is an entirely legitimate method. In fact almost all freshwater fishing in the UK is catch and release, to kill freshwater fish for the pot is frowned upon simply because many of the UK waterways (and therefore the inhabitants) are under immense pressure from both abstraction and pollution. Most of the fishable stretches of bank are controlled by clubs whose members act as guardians & conservationists for those areas. Sadly, this is a fact lost on the likes of PETA and similar misguided activists. Clearly the only reason these clubs exist is to allow their members to catch fish for sport, to remove fish for the pot only serves to denude the rivers further and is only likely to raise the hackles of local anglers (take the problems of Polish workers in the southeast who are often caught fishing without a net and with a lit disposable barbeque beside them! Just a question of cultural and national differences of opinion, but not all see it that way).

In England you'd be amazed at the care taken by anglers when fishing catch and release, hands should be wet and cooled before handling the fish (especially on sunny days), nets are always used (fishing to hand as it is called is really only carried out by match anglers these days, even then its rarely used). In the case of carp and pike anglers, large padded mats are used to prevent damage to the fish whilst they are being unhooked on the bank and specialist medicines used to treat any wounds caused by the hookhold. It all seems a little perverse, the care taken AFTER hooking and playing a fish and causing the distress, but its seen as sound practice to preserve the fishing for future generations. The upside for the fish is they usually get well fed and clean, secure environments to live out their lives.

With regard to unhooking fish; the use of a pair of forceps is recommended for predatory species (those with sharp gnashers), simply to put distance between your hands and the teeth. With barbed hooks a steady pressure in the opposite direction to entry usually results in a clean release, the wound can be treated in the case of freshwater fish or in saltwater simply return the fish. I personally wouldn't cut the line near the hook, in saltwater the hook will eventually rust out, in freshwater there is absolutely no chance that this will happen, period. You'll just leave a fish with a hook in it and potentially trailing line. Not good.

I often use a small pair of electricians pliers rather than forceps, they flex less and are easy to handle, however in the majority of cases I simply use my fingers.

As for Pike fishing, please do not use gags or the like to force the jaws open after capture, they are unnecessary, Pike require a method known as 'chinning' which is best left to anglers who have been taught how to do it simply because you need to slide your hand inside the mouth through a slit in the chin and apply a light pressure to the lower jaw in order to trigger a feeding reflex in the pike which makes its jaws drop open naturally. Treble hooks for catch and release Pike fishing should have two of the three barbs crushed down in order to allow easy unhooking. Personally I don't think trebles are necessary.

As mentioned before the best way to learn is join a club, there is so much to learn it can seem rather daunting and each type of fishing requires its own unique approach. As we are not talking survival here and you wish to use a handline I would say your fishing would be likely (legally) limited to sea fishing only.

Apologies for the lengthy post.
 

irishlostboy

Nomad
Dec 3, 2007
277
0
Eire
thanks for the replies guys. some good information in them.
unfortunately i am not in a position to join a fishing club, or at least not take part in one anyway. time and location problems. when i get outdoor time i bolt home to the northwest of ireland where i spend my time as far away from civilisation as i can get (in ireland thats pretty far)
as for survival/hobby purposes; i am looking at it from the point of view of learning a skill just so i know i can do it if the need arises. not really for a hobby. so getting to know a bucket load of bits and bobs, and fancy tackle is out of my scope.

random question; has anyone looked into the posibility of retro-fitting fishing rod fixtures onto a walking pole in a quickly removable/replacable way?

my reasons for prefering to avoid bringing a rod are primarily weight (my last trip was a week long and my pack was about 50kg's on day 1. thats too heavy), but also the fact there are too many fancy bits and bobs on them to go wrong.

thanks for the advice so far guys. if there is anything anyone would like to add, please do.
 

fishy1

Banned
Nov 29, 2007
792
0
sneck
I am sorry to see that set line is being recommended. In fresh water it is illegal and in salt water not very sporting. In a real survival situation it would be okay but thats not what we are talking about here. You have some of the best fishing in the world with local clubs owning rights to fish it. Join a local club, you will get good advice and try out various bits of tackle. Please do not fish Illegally, real fishermen are environmentalists. Tight lines,
jon

I'm not encouraging illegal behaviour. Just because it isn't sporting does not mean it should not be used. Most methods of getting food in bushcraft are not "sporting".
Set lines are highly effective, produce high quality fish, and are sustainable. Indeed, they are far far better for the sea than the trawlers which pull in hundreds of undersized fish.

Mang, re the perch, you are probably right, we caught six when fishing for wild trout and were rather surprised and did not know how to cook them, not very good fighitng anyways. I did not know what they were but a friend did, turned out one was very close to the british record I think. If I ever get one again, I'll try soaking it.

Hooks only rust out I think if they are not stainless and I think even then it is only in salt water, a piece of wire in freshwater will take years to rust away. When I'm fishing, not angling, I use stainless, in large sizes, becuase then I don't get many undersized fish and because having to change hooks every week or so is not good.

Re Mick miller, I don't particularly see the point of fishing not for the table, what's the point of playing with the fish and damaging them if not to eat. If conservation is so important, why damage them by fishing for them in the first place? Up in Scotland, eating your catch is allowed generally. If I caught a decent sized fish and hadn't caught many that day, I'd keep and eat it, unless it was somewhere where they were very scarce, and then I probably wouldn't fish it anyways. I'd always wet my hands and stuff though, and forceps can come in handy.
 

mick miller

Full Member
Jan 4, 2008
520
0
Herts.
Re Mick miller, I don't particularly see the point of fishing not for the table, what's the point of playing with the fish and damaging them if not to eat. If conservation is so important, why damage them by fishing for them in the first place? Up in Scotland, eating your catch is allowed generally. If I caught a decent sized fish and hadn't caught many that day, I'd keep and eat it, unless it was somewhere where they were very scarce, and then I probably wouldn't fish it anyways. I'd always wet my hands and stuff though, and forceps can come in handy.

Understood, although many millions of people in the UK feel otherwise and if we're honest about it but for them and their love of fishing our rivers, streams and lakes would be in a shocking state or worse, gone.

The argument about 'pain and distress' has been put forward many times, however it has been proved as many times that fish do not feel pain as we mammals understand it. The only scientific proof that fish feel pain that I know of is from tests conducted where fish were subjected to all sorts of prodding, piercing (to simulate hooking) all with no result. Only a direct injection of bee venom into the fish produced any result and a mild one at that. The very fact that a fish can be caught and released many hundreds of times with no noticeable detrimental effect I think gives further credence to the notion that fish do not feel pain as we understand it. In fact, as an example many of the carp that have been fished for in the UK are long lived, going on for 60 years or more before father time eventually does for them.

I do both, I sport fish and fish for the pot, however fish for the pot are limited to trout and only fished for from sustainable sources such as trout reservoirs and private lakes.

Irish LostBoy; given that you mention you'll be fishing somewhere remote and have an eye on keeping the weight of tackle down I would suggest a telescopic rod, the quality of these tends to be questionable, but I'll do some digging around and try and find an example which would be robust enough to see you through a variety of situations. I know a good friend of mine takes one on his travels and has caught several trout and pollack for the pot with it. You could however get away with a length of line secured to the end of a long branch, I've personally caught freshwater fish in this manner. You don't necessarily need an eyed rod and reels etc.

For line strength I'd go for the 10-12lb mark, weights can be up to 2oz although you needn't use leads - I've got away with using single links from a metal chain as weights before. Hook sizes I'd go for anything between size 12 (for trout and freshwater fish) to size 4 for sea fish.
 

Kepis

Bushcrafter through and through
Jul 17, 2005
6,719
2,229
Sussex
The issue of getting a hook out has always put me off fishing. Is there a failsafe method of taking a barbed hook out?

Use a disgorger, they cost pennies (25p to be exact) and save a lot of hassle and are far kinder on the fish than pliers or forceps, http://www.harrisonstackle.com/cgi-..._Catalogue_Drennan_229.html#aDISGORG#aDISGORG generally forceps are used when removing bigger hooks from large carp or predatory fish, oh and as an experienced angler, both competition and general coarse, i'll glady take anyone fishing up my lakes if they want so they can see how it's done corerctly, although you may be dismayed at the amount of tackle i take.

If people want pointers on tackle etc, have a look at http://www.pulboroughas.com/tackle.htm
 

fishy1

Banned
Nov 29, 2007
792
0
sneck
Understood, although many millions of people in the UK feel otherwise and if we're honest about it but for them and their love of fishing our rivers, streams and lakes would be in a shocking state or worse, gone.

The argument about 'pain and distress' has been put forward many times, however it has been proved as many times that fish do not feel pain as we mammals understand it. The only scientific proof that fish feel pain that I know of is from tests conducted where fish were subjected to all sorts of prodding, piercing (to simulate hooking) all with no result. Only a direct injection of bee venom into the fish produced any result and a mild one at that. The very fact that a fish can be caught and released many hundreds of times with no noticeable detrimental effect I think gives further credence to the notion that fish do not feel pain as we understand it. In fact, as an example many of the carp that have been fished for in the UK are long lived, going on for 60 years or more before father time eventually does for them.

I do both, I sport fish and fish for the pot, however fish for the pot are limited to trout and only fished for from sustainable sources such as trout reservoirs and private lakes.

Irish LostBoy; given that you mention you'll be fishing somewhere remote and have an eye on keeping the weight of tackle down I would suggest a telescopic rod, the quality of these tends to be questionable, but I'll do some digging around and try and find an example which would be robust enough to see you through a variety of situations. I know a good friend of mine takes one on his travels and has caught several trout and pollack for the pot with it. You could however get away with a length of line secured to the end of a long branch, I've personally caught freshwater fish in this manner. You don't necessarily need an eyed rod and reels etc.

For line strength I'd go for the 10-12lb mark, weights can be up to 2oz although you needn't use leads - I've got away with using single links from a metal chain as weights before. Hook sizes I'd go for anything between size 12 (for trout and freshwater fish) to size 4 for sea fish.

Just curious, but are stocked trout resoviours really sustainable? After all, those fish are generally all stocked, and farmed, often in lochs where their waste causes disease to the native fish. Plus, the process of farming them requires lots of often endangered fish to be caught and ground into fishmeal.

Good point about the reliability of telescopics, I snapped mine in half the other week, and have the idea of epoxying it back together with glass tape, although wether or not I'll do this I'm not sure as it was only a couple of quid.
 

john scrivy

Nomad
May 28, 2007
398
0
essex
Some really good advice given here also you can pick up a few good tips from the likes of john wilson and mates on real time Discovery Good luck with your fishing looking forward to some fishy tales
 

mick miller

Full Member
Jan 4, 2008
520
0
Herts.
Righto, I'm not going to vouch for the longevity of this rod but Fladen stuff is generally okay, the price is certainly bearable.

I was going to recommend the rod I use when abroad (fits in a suitcase and is very versatile) but its priced at over £100, that's a little steep for the occasional angler I think.

There are also 1 or two ready made handlines on this page and although it is certainly more rewarding to make your own, the tackle wrapped around them may give you some ideas.
 

galew

Tenderfoot
For survival nets or fish traps are a better method, if you want to eat. Fished all my life and if I had to depend on fishing with rod and reel, to eat three meals a day, I would have to say that I would have many days where I did not eat at all and very few where I would be full three meals . A fun sport but not survival related. Do I have a fishing kit as part of my survival gear, yes. I have line and hooks, What are they used for? You can caught birds and small animals using the baited hooks. Sometimes works better than snares. But for fish I will make traps.
 

MikaelMazz

Tenderfoot
Jan 19, 2007
80
0
33
The United States Of America
Fished all my life and if I had to depend on fishing with rod and reel, to eat three meals a day, I would have to say that I would have many days where I did not eat at all and very few where I would be full three meals . A fun sport but not survival related. QUOTE]

I disagre, If you want to fish for survival you need to fish for smaller fish like bluegills. I dont even know if bluegills live in the UK but I am sure you got some kind of easy to catch plentiful fish around. The problem with nets and traps is the time and resorces you need to make them and set them up. They are good once you get established and situated in an area. I have never went fishing and not came home with plenty of fish. Once between me, my dad and my brother we caught 39 small bluegills.


irishlostboy, just take some line, sinkers and hooks and tie the line on a long stick and fish. Dont worry about taking the hook out, We catch fish to stalk a hand dug pond on our farm and we very rarly have any die. Even when they swallo the hook we just cut the line and most of the time they live but if they die we will eat them. You will learn to detect the fish taking the bait and set the hook so they cant swallow it.

In the 19th century over here in Southern New England people who fished for chaine pickeral(a kind of pike) commercially in ponds would use a wooden pole with strong line to drag a weedless hook (which can be bought or improvised) baited with pork rind or perch belly meat through the weeds. The line would be wrapped down the rod and held in the hand in case the rod breaks. The line was about as lond as the pole. You could take some pork rind with you to use as bait. I have found that In remote ponds pikeral will taik almost any bait you though at them, frome maggots to many different lures.
If you became good at fishing with a rod, imagine how much less food you would have to carry on you week long outings. The weight of the rod would be nothing compared to how much food you would not have to carrry.
Good luck,
Mikael
 

pothunter

Settler
Jun 6, 2006
510
4
Wyre Forest Worcestershire
Angling Clubs and Fishing Syndicates get me nearly as annoyed as fishermen. If anyone thinks they have anything to do with conservation they are very much mistaken its no more than a way of excluding folks that want to take fish.

I'm sick of the mess that they leave, last year I had to remove three hooks and a treble from my spaniels. A few years ago one of my dogs nearly drowned, tangled in line, I frequently collect line from the river banks and overhanging trees.

Vets fees for last year for reparing one of my dogs after it ate discarded bate about £200.

Game Fishermen and wanabe Victorian country gentlemen are another bunch that want to exclude others from there 'private waters' so they can play with fish and then let them go.

Don't forget folks fishing worldwide is a multi million pound industry and they cant have some peasant catching on a homemade handline and eating it, that would not be sporting. Far better spend a fortune in the shops pay your membership buy the license catch a fish and put it back!

When you next thumb through a Norris catalogue remember fishing gear only catches fishermen.

Pothunter.
 

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