Fallkniven A1 or S1?

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TheGreenMan

Native
Feb 17, 2006
1,000
8
beyond the pale
The capital letters are most welcome, Cain, but don’t misunderstand me. big_swede is a person who has extended many kindnesses to me, and I extend that generosity to the point that he and I have very different experiences of life, and so understand that we may have different needs of a bladed tool, and may have very differing skills. I can’t help feeling that he has more finesse than, I.

Very kind regards,
Paul.
 

big_swede

Native
Sep 22, 2006
1,452
8
41
W Yorkshire
*chuckle* Finesse? Moi? :eek:

As with everything else, it's horses for courses, but I still think fällkniven does not give good value. I salute thegreenmans attitude towards gear trial. My experience is limited to that a guy in my squad in the army had an A1, and he always carried the mora for finer task, which left the A1 in the sheath pretty much all of the time. I borrowed it and tried at several occasions and found it quite unuseful. Except once, hade a severe jam in the M2, and used the knife for prying out a mangled shell (sharpened crow bar as said..) The S1 I tried a couple of time as my then-roommate had one.

I think both are not allround enough as a working bush knife, and the handles are to ill designed for prolonged chopping. ANd I still stand by my words of them being more for the bizarre knife market (remember hibben knifes? How could those even sell??) than for the forrests.
 

robin wood

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 29, 2007
3,054
1
derbyshire
www.robin-wood.co.uk
Big Swede I don't know these knives but find your posts entertaining and useful. I am also impressed at Green Man giving his contrary experiences and all in the best humour.

Green Man you say your Mora is zero ground, does that mean you followed the original primary bevel and removed the secondary? If so that may be why it is not performing, see my post "is your Mora too sharp?"
 

spamel

Banned
Feb 15, 2005
6,833
21
48
Silkstone, Blighty!
The F1 is about as thick as I'd like to go I think. I think the handle is slightly uncomfortable at times, the checquered rubber is actually painful to use after a while so I sanded it down a bit. It is still grippy but much more comfortable to use. If you are concerned about weight though, which has cropped up in other threads, a Mora type knife will be a better option as it is thinner, just as sharp and lighter. And to be fair, none of us go out and live in the backwoods like the mountainmen who were up there for months and even years at a time. I often don't sharpen a knife on a trip out as it doesn't get blunt enough, a quick pass over the smooth side of a DC4 maybe or a strop on some razor strop I carry usually suffices.
 

TheGreenMan

Native
Feb 17, 2006
1,000
8
beyond the pale
*chuckle* Finesse? Moi? :eek: ...

You’re being way too modest, big_swede. Finesse comes with experience, and you’re one of the most experienced cold climate outdoorsman on these forums.

I understand that to many people the medium to large fixed blades seem over engineered, and there may be some truth to that. And I believe that it is intended that the almost 100% guarantee that what ever one does to the knife or needs to do with the knife in an emergency and without a serious failure of the tool is meant to provide the owner with some assurance, as you have mentioned.

The 5mm+ blades have no chance of flexing let alone breaking when subjected to the greatest force that any person can apply to the knife (with the possible exception of an incorrect batoning technique). I’d be very worried if I had to use a Mora knife to pry slabs of wood off a log to make dry kindling, having been separated from my kit and specifically the axe. That’s an extreme scenario, and not many of us are going to experience that or anything like it, but if one imagines one might, then, what is to all reasonable expectations an unbreakable knife, becomes a more attractive prospect to some. I think that this assured reliability is what is informing the recent popularity for thick blades, and not just those of the Fallkniven brand.

I’m convinced that the Thermuron and Kraton handled Fallkniven knives were designed for cold weather use (I’m talking, proper, Scandinavian winter cold, not, UK cold) hence no metal on the handle, and a thin handle that is more comfortable and less fatiguing to the hand muscles when wearing thick, arctic region type mittens, for instance. And in these circumstances the chequered grips become less problematic. The chequered grips can become uncomfortable pretty quickly when using the knife with a lot force in a forehand grip, but those types of cuts on dry hard woods are pretty hard on soft skinned, un-gloved/un-mittened hands, what ever the shape or texture of the handle, at least that’s my experience to date. Obviously some handle shapes and materials are more comfortable that others, but I find that the skin of the palm of the hand over the lower knuckle of the first finger gets hot and sore what ever knife I use in a forehand grip, for long shaving cuts to hard wood (low density soft woods are somewhat different in this respect) . Apart from wearing gloves I don’t see a solution to this problem, unless I develop heavily calloused hands, which is something I haven’t had for about 20 years.

The S1 has a blade that is a little longer than is currently favoured by many (no longer than the width of the palm of one’s hand), but I wanted to find out if that extra bit of length would help when batoning (This is why I bought the Aurora, also). Batoning is not a technique I like and, like you, would rather use a hatchet or axe for the heavier jobs. But the ability to baton seems to be a prime requisite in a survival knife and specifically when that knife is the only tool at one’s disposal (‘up Sh*t Creek and without a paddle’). And again, the thick flat spine on a thick blade will destroy a baton more slowly than a thin spined blade. Of course, the ‘swedge’ (unsharpened, false edge) on the S1 is thin thus giving no advantage over a thin blade when batoning toward the tip of the knife, and that was one of the reasons I had it removed on the S1 modding project I collaborated on with the member, Shinken.

On my Thermorun S1 I’ve almost flattened the convexed high ‘bevels’ which has reduced the wedging of the blade and have thinned the area below the lamination line, and put a convexed micro bevel at the cutting edge. The micro bevel is helping considerably in preventing the much thinned VG-10 from chipping. And the thinning of the VG-10 has greatly improved the knife’s wood carving abilities.
And I’m planning on adjusting the cross-section of the blade on the modded S1 in a similar way.

Despite the VG-10 being tough, it hones very easily. Once the edge has been initially polished smooth, an edge can be put back on it with a few stokes on a strop, and I mean about six on each side, not many ten’s of stokes. On the current beech wood carving project I haven’t had to strop the VG-10 yet, the zero ground Clipper is blunted, the Hultafors is blunt and the edge has rolled, the two Mora wood carving knives have chipped and blunted, the Eriksson 711 with a micro bevel is still sharp and un-chipped (but this is the knife I’ve used least so far on this carving project), the A2 steel of the Aurora is still very, very sharp, though the zero ground convex edge has chipped. I feel that if I put a convexed micro bevel on the Aurora that will prevent further chipping.

(To be clear about the chips, they are too small to be seen with the naked eye, but I can feel them if I run the tip of my thumb nail along the cutting edge)

My current favourite fixed blade from the Fallkniven range is the TK1. I find the idea of the comfort of the wooden handle and powder steel blade a very appealing combination, owning a small folder with a 3G blade, I’d very much like to try a fixed blade from this steel. Teamed with a hatchet or axe and a saw, this would take care of pretty much all of my more usual needs from bladed tools.

That said, I’ve had a glimpse of perfection (perfect for my general needs, that is) and it’s the puukko in Hoodoo’s post #75 in the ‘What's the best grind for your ideal bushcraft knife?’ sticky thread at the top of the forum (page 2 post#75). The high grind Woodlore variant is a close second, though I much prefer the handle shape of the puukko.

Kind regards,
Paul.
 

TheGreenMan

Native
Feb 17, 2006
1,000
8
beyond the pale
...Green Man you say your Mora is zero ground, does that mean you followed the original primary bevel and removed the secondary?...

That’s correct, Robin.

I’ve had these Mora’s for a while and zero ground the blades because I’d read that bevels must be zero ground for effective wood carving, and that a secondary bevel (sabre grind) made it impossible to carve wood well. I’ve discovered that Mora blades are generally too thin to zero grind (even those with the higher Rockwell numbers) if the edge is not to chip and/or roll when carving seasoned hard woods, so some time ago a started to put a convexed micro bevel on some of the edges, as I do now for most of my fixed blade knives, be they flat bevels in the Nordic wood carving tradition or convex ground. I understand that even between Nordic natives there is contested debate as to whether the ‘true’ Nordic grind, in the historical sense, should be a zero grind or have a secondary bevel (sabre grind). The compromise of the convexed micro bevel is working well for me at the moment, as I find having to grind out those chips both a niggle and a waste of steel.

And I’ll have a look for that thread, by the way.

Kind regards,
Paul.
 

Sickboy

Nomad
Sep 12, 2005
422
0
44
London
I'll be agreeing with Big Swede on this one.
When you look at the prices of the F1 and S1 compared to the other scandinavian manufacturers they are expensive for what you get.
The blade thickness is excessive for there intended use.
I do prefer a larger knife over the normal scandi style for my bushcrafting, but it's personnal preference on this as i don't carry an axe, not sure i'd be willing to lunk a bar of steel around and need to carry a chopping implement aswell.
I'll stick with the Kukri and a small folder on longer trips.
Off to the woods tonight with my puukko but normally i'll have a bowie of some sort, not normal fair but it's what your used too ;)
 

Nicklas Odh

Forager
Mar 3, 2006
120
0
54
Ed, Sweden
Hi there you all.
Since I got about 30 different Fallkniven knives, several extremely rare models, I might be biased :)

Anyway. H2O earlier wrote "Helle knifes are laminated steel why would you expect to get big sparks of it?why not use a proper striker or carbon blade to get a spark?"
Well H20. You have been subject of a common misconception.

1: When using a firesteel the sparks DO NOT come from the knife. The amount of sparks is not dependant on the material of the scraper. The reason a scraper creates lots of sparks is because the edge in contact with the firesteel is very "sharp". The back of any Fallkniven knife is perfect for getting sparks from a firesteel. It is the same thing as with ice skates. The sharper |_| the edge, compared to U, the better sparks, the better control on the ice.
If you have a knife that does not give sparks enough, just sharpen the back, like you do with ice skates.

2: When creating sparks with a knife and a piece of quartz you get the sparks from the knife. Then it needs to be carbon steel.

I always use Fallkniven knives. U2, WM1, F1 and the S1.
I will get a H1 and try to use it as a bushcraft knife this summer.
 

Mastino

Settler
Mar 8, 2006
651
1
61
Netherlands
Hi there you all.
Since I got about 30 different Fallkniven knives, several extremely rare models, I might be biased :)

Anyway. H2O earlier wrote "Helle knifes are laminated steel why would you expect to get big sparks of it?why not use a proper striker or carbon blade to get a spark?"
Well H20. You have been subject of a common misconception.

1: When using a firesteel the sparks DO NOT come from the knife. The amount of sparks is not dependant on the material of the scraper. The reason a scraper creates lots of sparks is because the edge in contact with the firesteel is very "sharp". The back of any Fallkniven knife is perfect for getting sparks from a firesteel. It is the same thing as with ice skates. The sharper |_| the edge, compared to U, the better sparks, the better control on the ice.
If you have a knife that does not give sparks enough, just sharpen the back, like you do with ice skates.

2: When creating sparks with a knife and a piece of quartz you get the sparks from the knife. Then it needs to be carbon steel.

I always use Fallkniven knives. U2, WM1, F1 and the S1.
I will get a H1 and try to use it as a bushcraft knife this summer.

Thanks andI may add that the ' hardness' is also a factor and I found the Helle softish on the edge (that I ground to a sharp profile on the spine). The idea of laminated steel is to sandwich hard carbon steel between softer, more tenacious, stainless steel and that works fine on some knives and not on other brands.

And, Odh, I'm going to do the same with my H1 this summer. See you around in Rogen?
 

spamel

Banned
Feb 15, 2005
6,833
21
48
Silkstone, Blighty!
Ratbag currently uses an H1, and I believe it is the owner of Fallknivens' knife of choice also. Ratbag handled his hinself and it really is a nice job. Like I've said to him before though, it is because of the wood and brass pins combo, it cannot be beaten!
 

big_swede

Native
Sep 22, 2006
1,452
8
41
W Yorkshire
I must disagree with you paul on the handles. Thicker handles are much easier on the hands. Hence the giant Leuku handles. But I'm with you on the checkered grips, those are not really good for anything, unhygienic for food and just plain nasty on the ol' mitts..
 

TheGreenMan

Native
Feb 17, 2006
1,000
8
beyond the pale
I must disagree with you paul on the handles. Thicker handles are much easier on the hands. Hence the giant Leuku handles...

No worries, I bow to experience on this one :notworthy ...but first thing Monday morning I'll be out shopping for some arctic mittens and a giant Leuku :D

Cheers,
Paul.
 

sapper1

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Feb 3, 2008
2,572
1
swansea
afternoon gents .
I've found the pigeons now here's the cat
Over the years I have used many knives for many things ranging from gutting tonnes of fish on deep sea trawlers to carving spoons and the only knives I carry into the bush now?
Fallkniven A1 for most tasks from digging shallow latrines to cutting down small branches and preparing food ( I wash it after each latrine dig)
OPINEL No 3 for all detailed work.
I feel that any knife that makes you feel worried to use it in case it breaks or isn't up to the job is better left at home I have no worries with either of these knives and would recommend them.
Dont forget the best knife for you is the one you like best you will always make allowances for it but you will always be happy with it and if your happy with it you'll be safe with it.
 

walker

Full Member
Oct 27, 2006
674
131
53
devon
hi there

i owned a s1 for a while till i traded it
first things first
it kept sharp ok
2nd it cut through meat joints ok went through bone very easy
sheath was crap the leather one was even worse
the handle did hurt after only about half an hour of working with the knife
3rd didnt feel a good buy for the money compaired to what you can get for the same money
i mean you can get a new alen wood now for the same cash
i now have a finnish pukko with a 3 inch blade and birch handle
which is fantastic

get a pukko and dont look back
 

C_Claycomb

Moderator staff
Mod
Oct 6, 2003
7,392
2,409
Bedfordshire
Before anyone spends a lot of time writing something helpful about their experiences with one of those knives, check the date of the original post :)

March 2008.

The original poster has probably sorted themselves out one way or another by now.
 
Jan 2, 2010
2
0
USA
I've tried both, and my preference would none of the two. Both are way to bulky and clumsy for the intended tasks. For the money you could do way better then those two. The thick blades cut incredably bad, the handles are to slim and causes fatigue in the hands during longer work, the sheaths are ugly and ill designed (not deep enough so the knife can pivot if the button comes loose). I hate the steel. Seriously, why would anybody need 5 or 6 mm blade? Get an axe-knife combo instead.

Quote from their website: "S1 The Forest Knife is probably the best hunting and fishing knife ever made", yeah right! Ever tried taking out a moose with a 5 mm blade? It's so clumsy you have no idea what your cutting in there. Filleting a fish with a 5 mm blade? Sure. If it's so good how come I never ever saw a fisherman or stalker using one? How come sport fishers prefers fillet knives or small thin bladed knives? How come virtually all the shooters I've hunted with prefer short broad bladed knives if the 5 mm is the best hunting knife made? Beats me, really...

Fällkniven is all about posing, a real sh1tty brand IMHO. The only ones I've seen it has been drafted insecure guys in their early twenties, who live in this fiction world where a knife has to be able to cut concrete and still be shaving sharp afterwards. Go buy a good knife and practice your knifeskills instead. Mors Kochansky still teaches people to survive with moras...
what do you think that the "intended tasks" of a fallkniven a1 are? i'll agree that their sheaths are horribly designed(although my a1 does no pivoting inside the sheath, it does rattle) but the a1 does anything but cut incredibly bad. it actually cuts extraordinarily well for its size. laminated blades are also extremely tough. you get the best of two worlds. i've seen people complain about the vg10 core chipping but that hasn't been my experience. survival knives tend to be heftier all-around. swamp rat, RAT, busse, BRKT, cold steel, junkyard, etc... all manufacture thicker blades. this is not some shortcoming of fallkniven as you're trying to proclaim it. also, speaking of living in fantasy worlds... i'll point out that food is the last thing you should be worrying about given an actual survival situation. you should worry less about skinning deers and filleting fish - both of which, well or not, an a1 could accomplish - and more about building shelters and making fires - both of which a mora would be little more than useless for.

you seem to have some sort of agenda to push. berating companies and labeling them as trash because their knives are mass-produced makes little to no sense. it doesn't take much to get a knife design right and, in my opinion, fallkniven has done just that.

P.S. vg10 is a proprietary japanese steel and is not available for import. any maker, not only fallkniven, whose blades incorporate vg10 has to have them manufactured in japan.
 
Last edited:
Jan 2, 2010
2
0
USA
Before anyone spends a lot of time writing something helpful about their experiences with one of those knives, check the date of the original post :)

March 2008.

The original poster has probably sorted themselves out one way or another by now.
still, the information posted here is available to anyone googling "fallkniven a1". i'd like them to know that fallkniven is not a "trash" company who makes trash knives as big swede has labeled them. the a1 is a great knife. i have no regrets in purchasing it and would recommend it to anyone.
 

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