Can an axe replace a saw and a knife?

[santaman2000]

No I dont think it can entirely, but depends what you intend doing. If you are going out to sleep in your hammock or under a tarp make a small fire and do a bit of cooking then you could probably get away with just a knife (maybe 4-5" blade). If on the other hand you want the fire to keep you warm as well you will need a lot more wood so a saw or axe (possibly both) would make your life easier. If you intend building shelters, making seats etc then definately a saw & axe is needed.
Personally If I had to choose 2 of them I would opt for a knife and axe and leave the saw at home. But I normally carry all 3 of them.
I get the impression that you dont currently have an axe ?? Try and see if you can borrow a friends axe to see how you get on with it before taking the plunge and spending £60 on something that you may not use a lot.

I'm still trying to understand why an axe needs to cost 60 pounds? I have one full sized Collins single bit axe, one Plumb hatchet, two hand forged tommahawks; none of which cost over $20; the tommahawks less than $15. Also two full size Plumb axe heads (one of which is a double bit) for restoration projects, niether of which cost more than $25 including postage.

 

[John Fenna]

No!
A knife cuts, a saw saws and an axe chops and/or splits.
You need all three.
You cannot saw with an axe or chop with a saw and if you use one tool to do the job of another it will be at best a compromise, not as efficient and in some cases dangerous to tool or user.
If you want to go lightweight and reduce toolage expect to add effort

 

[Wook]

The reason I was asking is that chopping is a substitute for sawing, and for most of human history was the preferred method of getting through a piece of wood, saws being a "modern" invention compared with the axe.

Since I want to chop up small logs into shorter lengths and then split them, it seems entirely reasonable to ask if a small axe could do a better job of this than a knife and a saw.

Truthfully the reason I want to stop using my Bowie for this is I don't think the stick tang is strong enough for battoning and I am concerned I will end up breaking it. Alternatively I have considered keeping with what I am doing, but investing in a more compact laplander saw and a tougher full tang knife.

Either way I see some new sharps on the near horizon

 

[Hoodoo]

At the moment I carry a largish folding saw and a 6 inch Bowie for cutting and splitting wood for making fires. To be honest it is a bit of a cumbersome system.

I've been wondering if something like a Gransfors Hand Hatchet could replace both. I rarely cut anything bigger than 2-3 inches in diameter, so I would think even a small axe would be able to handle it. The only thing I use the Bowie for is splitting wood. Most other things I use a small pocket knife for, so I think the Axe could replace the bowie and then some. Also I'm told that the Hand Hatchet is often used as a replacement for a knife, being small enough to be used for carving.

Good idea? Bad idea?

Opinions?

Thanks

I don't see much wrong with your system. If the saw is not a very good one, you will work much much harder. Make sure you have a good saw and then use what you want to split wood. I've use all kinds of tools for splitting. If you are winter camping and need some good-sized pieces of wood, I'd choose a hatchet over the bowie. The hatchet has a better wedging effect, and with a baton, you can split a lot of wood. With knives, I use a wooden wedge. I drive the knife in first to create a crack, tap the wedge in just enough to open the crack, pull out the knife, and then drive the wedge home to split the wood. I've used this same technique with very thin hatchets like Timberline's pilot hatchet (in pic below) and it works well.

 

[santaman2000]

While I've split uncountable chords of firewood for the fireplace at home, I've NEVER split a single stick for a campfire. Frankly, if it's big enough to need to be split, it's bigger than I'll cut with anything less than a chainsaw.

 

[Wook]

Splitting wood is the easiest way to procure dry fuel when it is raining, and essential if I feel like having another go at spoon carving.

 

[Hoodoo]

Splitting wood is the easiest way to procure dry fuel when it is raining.

That's something I learned in boy scouts as a young fry. We were on a jamboree and it had been raining steadily for a week. We were competing with other troops on a 3 day hike. One of the requirements was making fire without matches and the only dry wood we could find was from standing dead wood that we had to split to get the dry stuff. We used a lighter without lighter fluid (allowed ) to spark the tinder (cotton balls in a film can).

 

[Perrari]

It doesnt need to cost £60, of course there are cheaper axes out there. But I dont know if you have ever used a Gransfors axe ? But they are pretty good.
Remember also that everything in the USA is much cheaper than over here. For example the cheapest Cold steel tomahawk would cost around £35 over here which is approx $52 today. You are able to buy 'hand forged' tomahawks for $15 (£10) which is amazing. We are not so lucky!

I'm still trying to understand why an axe needs to cost 60 pounds? I have one full sized Collins single bit axe, one Plumb hatchet, two hand forged tommahawks; none of which cost over $20; the tommahawks less than $15. Also two full size Plumb axe heads (one of which is a double bit) for restoration projects, niether of which cost more than $25 including postage.

 

[santaman2000]

It doesnt need to cost £60, of course there are cheaper axes out there. But I dont know if you have ever used a Gransfors axe ? But they are pretty good...

TBH I'd never heard of Gransfors until I joined the forum (and I grew up farming and logging) I've still never seen one apart from videos and pictures (and many of my family and friends still log and farm)

As for the tommahawks, I'll grant that they were bought 5 or more years ago.

My point though is that while Gransfors (or my Plumbs) mat well be the bees knees, they are still, when all is said and done, just an axe. An axe is an axe is an axe. An real axeman however is a whole new ballgame.

 

[santaman2000]

That's something I learned in boy scouts as a young fry. We were on a jamboree and it had been raining steadily for a week. We were competing with other troops on a 3 day hike. One of the requirements was making fire without matches and the only dry wood we could find was from standing dead wood that we had to split to get the dry stuff. We used a lighter without lighter fluid (allowed ) to spark the tinder (cotton balls in a film can).

We never split wood even way back when in Boy Scouts. Not even when raining (and it rained a lot in Mississippi) We used lightard splinters (fat wood) to start fires in the rain. I still do. It will light easily even in a downpour. I suppose it might not be as easy to find in the UK though.

 

[Hoodoo]

We never split wood even way back when in Boy Scouts. Not even when raining (and it rained a lot in Mississippi) We used lightard splinters (fat wood) to start fires in the rain. I still do. It will light easily even in a downpour. I suppose it might not be as easy to find in the UK though.

You won't find much fatwood (or pine knots for that matter) in the hardwood forests of Indiana. And you still need wood to burn, especially if you are winter camping or you need a good fire to dry your gear (for a variety of reasons, some of which could be life threatening). Splitting wood is a good way to get damp wood to burn and if you have a tent stove, you will usually have to split your wood to burn it. Also in the winter, when the snow is on the ground, you will not find much decent wood lying about and squaw wood is not always that plentiful. Standing deadwood is almost always the best bet.

 

[santaman2000]

You won't find much fatwood (or pine knots for that matter) in the hardwood forests of Indiana. And you still need wood to burn, especially if you are winter camping or you need a good fire to dry your gear (for a variety of reasons, some of which could be life threatening). Splitting wood is a good way to get damp wood to burn and if you have a tent stove, you will usually have to split your wood to burn it. Also in the winter, when the snow is on the ground, you will not find much decent wood lying about and squaw wood is not always that plentiful. Standing deadwood is almost always the best bet.

Fair enough if you don't have lightard to start a fire. However IF you do, then dry doesn't really matter. I burn wet wood just as well once the fire is established. The only camping I've done in the snow was in the Nevada mountains in deer camp. Finding wood there wasn't much problem.

 

[cbr6fs]

30 years of hiking, camping and outdoors and i've never once put an axe in my rucksack and i've never missed it.

I have needed to split wood the odd time to get to the drier stuff, but that's very rarely and now i just pick up small bits of wood and stuff em inside me pockets while starting out on my hike, by the time i've set up camp they're dry.


If i was glamping and the camp was close to the car then i'd throw a axe in just in case, i'll be buggered if i'm lugging one around for years just "in case" i might need it though.

 

[Retired Member southey]

Threads like this are great, they always show that not every one camps in the same way, style, location, enviroment and so the different thoughts on kit come around.

 

[cbr6fs]

Threads like this are great, they always show that not every one camps in the same way, style, location, enviroment and so the different thoughts on kit come around.

Agree 100%

I think that's what makes this forum so good.
Rather than get the same answer written in several different ways you get many opinions from many different walks of life

 

[Big Stu 12]

It doesnt need to cost £60, of course there are cheaper axes out there. But I dont know if you have ever used a Gransfors axe ? But they are pretty good.
Remember also that everything in the USA is much cheaper than over here. For example the cheapest Cold steel tomahawk would cost around £35 over here which is approx $52 today. You are able to buy 'hand forged' tomahawks for $15 (£10) which is amazing. We are not so lucky!

I Agree, I brought a Tool station one for about £3 I think it was just to see what it was like.... what the hell I'll give anything a go... I am not a Badge Monster....

The only thing I found wrong with it apart from the vanished handle was the cutting Edge required reworking right back with a file, re-sharping and honing, since the I have used it a few times, and had no problems with it.

Its like most things you do get what you pay for most of the time but does the badge really warrant it...for your needs.

 

[Shambling Shaman]

mate you have opened a massive can of worms fue to the fact that there are two camps in this arguument and they are

camp 1 the knife and saw brigade who think an axe isnt needed in britton and dont use one

camp two those that have a gransfore bruks small forest axe or any gransfore bruks axe or any axe and use it


now i am firmly in camp two and well happy but i have a saw and a knife as well so its up to you really

Ditto, but like a lot of things bush craft its personal preference.

 

[Perrari]

I agree with you Stu, I am not a badge monster either but you do get what you pay for, but as you say does the badge warrant the price for you needs ? Probably not most of the time. e.g. is the Woodlore knife (as a working knife)worth more than double other handmade knives available & made to the same spec ??? Probably not, but has the Ray Mears name associated with it, hence the price & 10 year waiting list. But as humans we like brands or special items! I know I do ! And I would love to own one because it is a Ray Mears knife. but would probably never use it.

I have a sandvik axe which I use at home for kindling etc, I think it cost around £8. It's a great little axe, but I cannot get it quite as sharp as my Gransfors axes, and the edge certainly does not last anywhere near as long. But it doesnt need to be that sharp for splitting kindling at home, but when it comes to chopping branches the Gransfors axe is light years ahead, probably down to the heat treatment more than anything.

Been thinking as I was typing this, a Gransfors axe at around £60 'retail' for something entirely handmade is pretty good really. These are just my opinions, and I donot wish to offend anyone.

I Agree, I brought a Tool station one for about £3 I think it was just to see what it was like.... what the hell I'll give anything a go... I am not a Badge Monster....

The only thing I found wrong with it apart from the vanished handle was the cutting Edge required reworking right back with a file, re-sharping and honing, since the I have used it a few times, and had no problems with it.

Its like most things you do get what you pay for most of the time but does the badge really warrant it...for your needs.

 

[vizsla]

During my daily tasks like a small fire for a brew maybe a pot hanger or collecting resources i get by with nothing but my pocket knife and mainly the short sheepsfoot blade, but if im going to collect large amounts of wood for carving or staves etc il take the required tools usualy folding saw and axe as it makes light work of removing branches.
If im going to be out for the night i always have my knife axe and folding saw and in winter il also take my folding bow saw as it saves alot of time when there is little daylight.
i suppose it depends if you like to do much making or carving were you need the required tools if not then a knife will do most tasks and keep a small fire going.
Theres no need to make life dificult unless weight is a issue. Which it never realy is for me.
Although it can also be nice to go away for a night with just a pocket knife

 

[santaman2000]

...I have a sandvik axe which I use at home for kindling etc, I think it cost around £8. It's a great little axe, but I cannot get it quite as sharp as my Gransfors axes, and the edge certainly does not last anywhere near as long. But it doesnt need to be that sharp for splitting kindling at home, but when it comes to chopping branches the Gransfors axe is light years ahead, probably down to the heat treatment more than anything...

I gotta admit I get a brand preference sometimes too. With axes my softspot is for Plumb but they're no longer being made.

I've sharpened my axes to shaving sharp before just because I could, but I gave that up years ago and just went back to my old farmer/logger roots. All an axe needs is a quick sharpen with a file and go to work. As you say, duller is better for splitting (3 generations taught me that) As for the heat treatment, don't you reckon that goes out the window the first time you burn out a broken handle to replace it?