Calling experienced hillwalkers help needed!

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johnboy

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Oct 2, 2003
2,258
5
Hamilton NZ
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Basic kit list:

Tent
Winter sleeping bag
alpkit airic kipmat
Bergen

Clothing:

Thermal base layer (top and bottoms)
Micro fleece
Thick fleece
Long sleeved cotton t-shirt
Down jacket (taken in a stuff sack)
Waterproof / windproof jacket and trousers
Waterproof gloves
Arctic mitts just in case in turns proper baltic!
Thin socks with a thicker pair over the top
Neck gaitor
Wooly hat x 2 in case one gets wet and can put a dry one on in camp
Dinner kit comprising stove, mess tin, rat packs and food for the day
Head torch and spare batteries
Map & Compass and map case
Basic survival kit to keep on my person with whistle for attracting attention if stranded
Knife and firesteel
Lighter
2 litres of water and water purification tabs

I'm not sure you have advised us what footwear you are using? If you are tramping through snow I'd advise a decent pair of gaiters as they help to prevent snow getting into the tops of your boots. If you have leather boots ensure they are well treated with whatever you use to proof them. Take along some spare socks to change into as well. Good boots are vital in winter conditions IMHO.

DSCF0038.jpg


HTH


John
 
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Dogoak

Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Jan 24, 2009
2,289
287
Cairngorms
You mentioned that you were both competent navigators and you, in particular, would be happy to" bimble along known paths" - that sets the alarm bells ringing with me! With our recent and current weather you really have to be happy walking on a bearing in poor visibility - especially in high country.
Fin

Hi Bushcraftbob, good post by Finn, I have to agree, in your post you mentioned that 'We are both fairly competent navigators, but neither of us have done any navigation in the snow. I would be happy to go for a short bimble sticking to major paths' this also set my alarm bells ringing.

It is really, really, really important to be able to navigate very well in all conditions. It would be relatively easy for you with your ability to be able to navigate the paths as you say, but with the weather as it is at present it could easily become a 'white out' and within seconds you could be off the path, etc; etc;....... you catch my drift, no pun intended :)

As conditions are set to stay like this you could take the oppertunity to practise your nav skills this weekend and go out the following.

Your kit list looks good but as others have mentioned, axe and crampons are a must on any mountainous terrain in these conditions (maybe you could practise ice axe arrests while you areout practising you are nav skills).

Also I would take a pair of goggles, I always remember my first Scottish winter experience when I was 16. Bad weather came in and I could hardly see a thing, all the older guys then got goggles out of their sacs and guess who didn't have any? at least untill the shop opened the next morning!

What ever you do, have a great time and stay safe.
 

Nonsuch

Life Member
Sep 19, 2008
1,862
1
Scotland, looking at mountains
Make sure you have dry warm layers to wear in the tent at the end of the day and sleep in. It is all too tempting to get all your clothing damp with perspiration during the day, then find you get chilled in the evening.

Just a further thought - are you ok with winter skills ? Ice axe arrest ? Understanding snow behaviour (cornices etc)

NS
 

Harvestman

Bushcrafter through and through
May 11, 2007
8,656
26
55
Pontypool, Wales, Uk
Lots of good advice here, and you've already taken the first step towards a successful trip by asking for advice. Well done. Don't let your macho mate do anything stupid - mountains in winter are not for messing with. Treat them with respect, and you'll have a great time.

Where in the Black Mountains are you going, exactly? Grwyne Fawr is a good place to start, as it has parking, good access up onto the tops without being too steep, and best of all, just past the head of the reservoir there is a bothy if you really have trouble and need to take shelter. My recommendation would be to walk up past the reservoir, which is a significant walk in winter with snow (but easy enough in summer), cross the river, and camp at the head of the reservoir where there is a quarry, as you get some shelter from the trees. If you feel adventurous you can walk further than this, but come back for the campsite. There's a path all the way to the Hay Bluff if you follow this route, so it is harder to get lost (the path follows the river almost all the way to source).

I did this last year and the difference winter to summer is enormous. The snow will be deep-ish, which is very tiring, and because the Black Mountains are largely flat topped the wind is a major factor. Dress for wind as well as for cold, and make sure you have enough fuel for whatever stove you take - you'll need it.

The big advantage of this route is the easy bail-out. Simply turn round and walk back to the car any time you need to, and there are usually other walkers on the path even in winter, so you can get help if you need it. If you bail out early enough there is a camp site next to the car park, and lots of forestry for shelter, so it needn't be a total write-off.

I've winter camped in this area quite a bit. PM me if you have extra questions if you like.
 

bushcraftbob

Settler
Jun 1, 2007
845
0
41
Oxfordshire
Thanks for all of the responses everyone. To be honest I am thinking of calling my mate and calling it off, part of me wants to see if i can brave the conditions but then part of me knows that we are both too inexperienced to be up high when the weather is like it is now!

I dont have any experience with crampons / axe and have no winter skills whatsoever either... I think i might suggest a bimble around the ridgeway, as its closer, lower, and good chance to practise some naviagtion in the snow.

Another thing i have thought about is access, the country roads surrounding the site where we intend to park the car will surely be treacherous with ice?

Footwear i will be using are normal walking boots, and yes, a pair of gaiters. Didnt think of goggles! I will have to look out for a cheap pair.

Cheers again for the input, will let you know the outcome whether we go or not!

BB
 

bushcraftbob

Settler
Jun 1, 2007
845
0
41
Oxfordshire
Hey Harvestman just caught your post, Grwyne Fawr area is exactly where we are going! Not sure what exact route my mate has planned yet but ill drop you a line if we need any furher info! cheers
 

Harvestman

Bushcrafter through and through
May 11, 2007
8,656
26
55
Pontypool, Wales, Uk
Good thought about the road. Getting to the car park is almost the hardest thing about a trip like that! That road can be seriously unpleasant.

A decision to cancel based on inexperience/not feeling up to it is always sensible, if it is what you decide to do. No-one can make that call but yourself, but if you make it then it is the right deciusion for you. Don't be persuaded to do something you aren't happy with.

For what it is worth, if you can get to the car park safely, get the gear out and go for a walk in the direction of the reservoir. That's safe enough. Make the call then. You can have a good day out without the overnight.

I might even run into you, since this thread has made me realise it's been a while since I was up that way, and i miss it!
 
Thanks for all of the responses everyone. To be honest I am thinking of calling my mate and calling it off, part of me wants to see if i can brave the conditions but then part of me knows that we are both too inexperienced to be up high when the weather is like it is now!

Probably a wise move given the current weather - as we say in aviation - "Take off is optional - landing is compulsory!" Or, to adapt another aviation quote - It's better to be lying in your warm comfortable bed, dreaming of being on the mountain than being on the mountain dreaming of your warm comfortable bed.

Sometimes the boldest decisions are the ones to cancel - or at least postpone.
 

Dougster

Bushcrafter through and through
Oct 13, 2005
5,254
238
The banks of the Deveron.
These are the Black Mountains, they are not BIG hills. I used to live there. That's not to say they are't dangerous but you don't have to commit to big walks.

Put your tent up low down and get some day walks there. If you don't like it turn around and go back down.

The paths are like motorways in the summer but just disappear in winter and the north ridge is a big drop in most places.

The Forestry Comission land NE would be a good walk if the weather isn't too good and you can drop down to some nice pubs from there too.

Edit - my avatar is my old dog on the ridge above Talgarth.
 
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wattsy

Native
Dec 10, 2009
1,111
3
Lincoln
i'd stay off the hills in winter unless you know what you're doing and have some experience with ice axe and crampons. normal walking boots won't take a crampon they aren't stiff enough, so you'd need different boots. i don't want to come across as a kill joy but if you don't have the equipment you'll just be putting yourself in danger unnecessarily most accidents in the hills in winter happen on 'easy' ground when you don't think there's much danger
 
Oct 6, 2008
495
0
Cheshire
Sounds to me like you've already made the most important ( and correct in my view) decision. Good for you.

For what its worth, I've done some winter walking and lots of hill walking in various conditions, I've decided several times that the best course of action was to either turn back or reassess and opt for a less ambitious plan. Its always a difficult choice but always feels right when I have done it.
 

bearbait

Full Member
Loads of good advice above.

If there's any breeze blowing - and you've not got your windproofs on - your best friend can get very cold and even frost bitten. I use a folded pertex towel next to my skin to keep the old fella safe. Anything fexible and windproof should serve.

Important to remember that you're out there to enjoy yourselves!

Let us know how your trip goes.
 

bushcraftbob

Settler
Jun 1, 2007
845
0
41
Oxfordshire
Hi all - i have decided to stay in the warm and make some arrows while watching, ahem...., x factor....... My 'macho' mate has managed to persuade another of my friends to go with him - i hope they are ok!
 

underground

Full Member
May 31, 2005
271
10
47
Sheffield
Good effort - winter mountains can become a grim experience even when prepared and experienced!

There's a lot of excellent advice in this thread and everything I was going to mention has been covered, I think.

One that hasn't, however, is the problem of condensation in the tent - i.e. in the cold, the inside of the tent will get a lot wetter than you'd normally find it in summer - and because everything will be cold, it will all end up damp.

Someone mentioned carrying a bivi bag as well as the sleeping bag, and I always used to use a Rab Survival zone (would probably choose an Alpkit hunka if I was buying now) as a waterproof sleeping bag cover. Also with regard to drybags - make sure you have one available to put any clothing for the next morning into, again so it's dry when you want to put it on.
 

bushcraftbob

Settler
Jun 1, 2007
845
0
41
Oxfordshire
I must admit i am feeling rather smug! My macho mate (we have named him chris ryan lol) was back in his warm bed by 6pm on saturday. Turns out the snow was too deep to walk in and wind chill absolutely horrendous. He didnt even wear thermals...

cheers for the advice everyone looks like i made the correct decision. BCUK rules!
 

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