Bushcraft or Old Fashioned Camping?

[riddleofsteel]

My 13 year old son and I take "bushcraft" weekends several times a year. We purposely take an absolute minimum kit. Currently we make pretty comfortable camps with just the clothes on our backs, our knives, flint and steel, and small cooking pot. A lot of this depends on the weather and temperature. Minimum kit survival in wet cold weather is an experts challenge but we are working up to it.
All this started out on our property that consists of 31 acres of land with access to several hundred acres of adjacent land. It varies from steep laurel choked hillsides with hardwoods to meadows, to pine thickets to a large creek bottom thick with vines and weed beds. We have a camper trailer with electric and water on the property but it is off limts during these weekends unless we get in real trouble. We do keep a primitive camp site near the creek but we build new shelters and hearths every time we go out.
The reason we started on our own private property was so we could cut wood and vines, build shelters, fish traps, cordage and carry out other functions of primitive camping and bushcrafting without violating park and forest land regulations. We also hunt on this property for small game and deer during the season so I know that game, fish and plant food sources are available and were to find them.
The skills we develop and hone on these outings are what bushcrafting is all about. When we do go out camping with tents, tarps, sleeping bags and other modern gear we feel a bit like astronauts. You see possibilities in every creek, every weed bed, every bit of wood when you know wood craft. It never ceases to amaze our friends how busy we stay in camp when we go on group backpacking trips and how much we find to eat and use as tools. Our packs are lighter and so are our steps on the trail.
It's our heads that are full. Knowledge and experience is the best thing you can take camping.

 

[madrussian]

Firestarter, I understand your position on Bushcraft. But lets face it, not everyone can follow the same path the same way. We all differ when it comes to skill levels as well as the time needed to practice the craft. I live in the city and work five days a week. Finding suitable woodlands in my area is difficult. Most of the wooded area is owned by hunting clubs. If you don't have the money to join a hunting club its not easy getting out there to practice your skills. Finding the time to do it is even more difficult. I have some of the knowledge I need, just not the experience.

But think about this for a minute. If a native american indian was given, lets say a roll of duct tape, would he no longer be practicing bushcraft if he used it to his advantage? If he fletched his arrows with duct tape would you say that he is not practicing bushcraft any longer? Or is he still using his bushcraft knowledge/skills to adapt using the new material given him? Does it stop being bushcraft if one uses a sleeping bag instead of a deer skin? Or if one uses a knife instead of flint? I'm not trying to be sarcastic just more realistic. If one can go it alone with just a knife that is fantastic. But does it mean that if you cannot, that you are just a camper? I would hope not. Otherwise I will have to join a camping forum.

 

[quiggers]

oh go on then I'll throw my thruppence in....

if most are like me, it's a sliding scale and we all sit somewhere on that scale..

I started out as a boy running round the hills building forts and shelters, then as adulthood grabbed hold bought tents and trangias and inflatable beds and then read and experimented and slowly evolved back to the natural environment I explored as a boy.

I am by no means there - but started with tents and am now under tarps and bivvy's and sometimes leanto's. But we're all not so lucky to have an afternoon to devote to finding bedding and materials for a lean to etc etc, but if technology allows us to get out there on a friday eve after work as I have, then more's the benefit.

Like all things in life it's a state of mind...

 

[Voivode]

But think about this for a minute. If a native american indian was given, lets say a roll of duct tape, would he no longer be practicing bushcraft if he used it to his advantage? If he fletched his arrows with duct tape would you say that he is not practicing bushcraft any longer? Or is he still using his bushcraft knowledge/skills to adapt using the new material given him? Does it stop being bushcraft if one uses a sleeping bag instead of a deer skin? Or if one uses a knife instead of flint? I'm not trying to be sarcastic just more realistic. If one can go it alone with just a knife that is fantastic. But does it mean that if you cannot, that you are just a camper? I would hope not. Otherwise I will have to join a camping forum.

Playing your example forward (and backwards) a bit, at what point does technology become a "burden" to the "traditional" practitioner? Did the native american start being a sucky camper with the introduction of guns and iron pots? Was the advent of the bow considered by them to be too high-tech to be truly roughing it, shunned as a tool for the lazy? How about the discovery of spark firemaking? "It's just not fire unless you sweat over some friction", I'm sure some aboriginal culture said. I'll do you one better; Kochanski is a wuss, what with his iron tools. It's not bushcraft unless you're doing it without metal. At least that way you didn't have to rely on iron technology that requires a particular kind of civilization and infrastructure to develop. Everything you do and produce is from your own two hands.

I originally wrote a whole rambling rant, but I'll distill it into a medium sized rant; This argument is a load of crap. There are no brownie points in outdoorsman heaven for being higher or lower on the tech scale when going out in the woods. If people want to talk about their butane torch firelighter (ask Mears, it's illustrated somewhere in one of those books of bushcrafty skills of his), they should talk about it. Kochanski never said matches was a dirty word, after all. If I want to discuss the latest and greatest Thermarest (man, best $120 I ever spent on a sleeping pad!) or making one in situ from logs and spruce boughs a la Kochanski, people should be able to without being made to feel dirty. I'm all about "roughing it" as the next guy, ready to (attempt to) sleep under the stars in my hand-crafted dwelling, but I'm *not* leaving home without Goretex socks.

Edit: Whoo-hoo! My 50th post. On my way to internet superstardom!

 

[BOD]

I think there are probably no bushcrafters on this site. Certainly I am not

If we start defining it then it is something external to us.

If you told a true bushcrafter waht bushcraft is he would be puzzled and think that you are describing his way of life.

As soon as it becomes a hobby or passion it is not your daily existence and then you are no longer a bushcrafter.

AND if you ask on a forum what it is then you are clearly not one

As for bush kitters these are bushcampers in larval stage - one day they will leave the kit chrysalis and emerge into the outdoors!

They are the next generation!

 

[Tadpole]

Back when I was a kid, I had no kit; I had some borrowed army woollen blankets from my mother. My ‘tent’ was some heavy tarpaulin borrowed (stolen) from the side of the road. A frying pan, the food came in tins or from shops along the way, a candle and some matches. I camped like that for a year. Then my granddad taught me about camping, catching food and the like. I went camping with more gear, and more knowledge. The longer I spent camping the more gear I took, until I reached a point (I think I was sixteen or so) that I found I used less of the gear I was carrying, so I started cutting down.
By the time I was 20 I hardly took more than I did when I was 11 or 12. I had a rucksack and a lightweight sleeping bag, a light weight flysheet cut up so it was kind of square, that served as my tent, and a small trangia. Food I sought, caught, or bought along the way. Now I am older I am a kit carrying person again. (Mostly my car carries the kit, as my back is not up to much) given time I’m sure the car will have less to carry and my brain will pick up the workload.
When I walk I’m a walker, when I am hill climbing, I’m a hill climber, when I’m foraging for wild food, I’m a forager. When I am camped I am a camper.
In my head, I am me; bushcraft is merely a title, like “foot ball fan”. If you call yourself a foot ball fan, it still doesn’t tell people what team you support, or anything about your passion. It just explains to others in ‘simple words’ what you already know.

I don’t care what you call me or anyone else for that matter, I know what I am. I’m me, an experiment of one, with a skill combination that only I have. I can learn skills from you and that will add to my skills, and hopefully in some small way, teaching me will add to yours; however it will not make what I do in to what you do.
Let’s leave the labelling to other people.

 

[demographic]

Neither, they are Anglers

 

[OldJimbo]

That's well said Tadpole!
Sometimes when I'm out with the grand-kids on a short day hike, my pack is a huge Kelty Basecamp.

 

[Wayland]

I think the book "northern bushcraft" is a good example of what "bushcraft" should be.There are no hammocks, tarps, self inflating matresses, teepees, trangia stoves, kelly kettles, swanndris, ventile jackets, possibles pouches, hand made knives, rucksacks,gas stoves, lighters, mats, titanium mugs, telescopic fishing rods, reel and accessories, fire steels, sleeping bags, reindeer skins, sporks,gps, head torches, indiana jones bags,air rifles, water filters,petrol lanterns, bottles of fine malt or toilet paper to be found in the book.

This approach is great in a true wilderness but there is precious little of that left in this country.

Carrying and using a tarp reduces impact. Carrying and using a hammock or sleeping mat reduces impact. Carrying and using a stove reduces impact. Carrying and using a sleeping bag reduces impact. I can think of dozens of other things that reduce our impact on the wilderness too.

It's not nessesary for everyone to carry these things that's true, but the impact caused to the environment by everyone not carrying these things is potentially massive.

I, like many others on this site, can survive with nothing but the clothes on my back if needed, but not without impacting upon the very wilderness that I go out to find and record before it is all gone.

Even in remote parts of the World sensible regulations are creeping in to protect the wilderness. Excluding Antarctica, less than 25% of the Earth's surface is now categorised this way, and it's shrinking because of Human impact.

Your argument falls down completely when it comes to clothing of course, no one would advocate going into the great outdoors in clothing that will turn them into a rescue statistic. I'm sure that is not what you were thinking, or is it?...

Northern Bushcraft is a manual of techniques that can be used outdoors, it is not a sacred text or mantra.

 

[typha]

This approach is great in a true wilderness but there is precious little of that left in this country.

Carrying and using a tarp reduces impact. Carrying and using a hammock or sleeping mat reduces impact. Carrying and using a stove reduces impact. Carrying and using a sleeping bag reduces impact. I can think of dozens of other things that reduce our impact on the wilderness too.

It's not nessesary for everyone to carry these things that's true, but the impact caused to the environment by everyone not carrying these things is potentially massive.

I, like many others on this site, can survive with nothing but the clothes on my back if needed, but not without impacting upon the very wilderness that I go out to find and record before it is all gone.

Even in remote parts of the World sensible regulations are creeping in to protect the wilderness. Excluding Antarctica, less than 25% of the Earth's surface is now categorised this way, and it's shrinking because of Human impact.

Your argument falls down completely when it comes to clothing of course, no one would advocate going into the great outdoors in clothing that will turn them into a rescue statistic. I'm sure that is not what you were thinking, or is it?...

Northern Bushcraft is a manual of techniques that can be used outdoors, it is not a sacred text or mantra.

I am merely pointing out that the book "northern bushcraft" is what bushcraft is really about, I am not suggesting that everyone should ditch their kit and go out into the wilds improperly dressed with nothing or impact heavily on our already fragile environment.I would just like to see a bit more bushcraft discussed and a bit less kit, knowledge of kit is easily acquired.

 

[weekend_warrior]

Which ever one you choose to label yourself as, I think for a great many people it's an opportunity to enjoy what remains of the great outdoors and leave the labels we wear in everyday life by the front door. Surely no bad thing?

A quote from "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre" springs to mind. "Badges!? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinking badges!!"

 

[WhichDoctor]

Surely the term Bushcraft is an inclusive term that can bring lots of people who enjoy the outdoors together that mite not otherwise meet, and the sharing of knowledge from many different areas enriches all of us.

Lets keep the term amorphous and not put anyone off.

Edit: Whether or not this discussion is going anywhere it certainly seems to have riled people up (me included ) but 51 posts in 20 hours that must be a recored .

 

[Klenchblaize]

A quote from "The Treasure of the Sierra Madre" springs to mind. "Badges!? We ain't got no badges. We don't need no badges! I don't have to show you any stinking badges!!"

But I like badges and sewing!!

Cheers
Ps: I also LIKE kit and for those who missed Saturday’s pre-Christmas Paramo sale (Wadhurst East Sussex) my heart goes out to you!

 

[pierre girard]

Two scenario's for you to consider

1, A man or woman goes out into the woods with tent and camps for a weekend. The rucksack contains the following -: gas stove, lighter, sleeping bag, matt, pot, plate, mug, spoon, spare clothes, first aid kit, food (tin of beans and corned beef, portage, etc), water flask, small axe, knife, telescopic fishing rod, reel and accessories, map and compass, binoculars, book on nature studies, bottle of fine malt and toilet paper.
The time is spent looking at nature, fishing and cooking their catch on the open fire, whittling sticks and in the evening sitting next to the fire with the bottle of malt, gazing at the night sky.


2, A man or woman goes out into the woods with tarp and camps for a weekend. The rucksack contains the following, trangia stove, fire steel, sleeping bag, hammock, reindeer skin, zebra pot, kelly kettle, plate, titanium mug, spoon, spare clothes, first aid kit, food (boil in a bag, bannock mix), etc, water bottle, small axe, saw, a few knifes, telescopic fishing rod, reel and accessories, map and compass, binoculars, book on nature studies, bottle of fine malt and toilet paper.
The time is spent looking at nature, fishing and cooking their catch on the open fire, whittling spoons and in the evening sitting next to the fire with the bottle of malt, gazing at the night sky.

Question - Which one is Bushcraft and which one is just old fashioned camping?

I personally think we can define this subject into those who are new age Bushcampers, Bushkitters, Those who know it all, but never practice any of it. Those who like the image with the look, who talk it but never walk it.
Then those who practice the art of bushcraft - The true Bushcrafters who see a knife as just a tool and strives for the knowledge and skills to enable him/her to live in the natural world without all the kit.

Once a year, I go out for a week with a group of guys. We bring: No food, a knife, a gun/ammo, a blanket - and the clothes we are wearing. For the whole group there is a kettle, a flint and steel, and a crooked knife.

My brother carries it further. He's been out for two weeks with only a jacknife, just wearing a breechclout.

That kind of thing is my definition of bushcraft. Otherwise, take what you're comfortable carrying.

 

[leon-1]

Now here we go again.

Right this is all to do with perspective, each individuals perspective will be different to anothers (it may only be in a small way, but it will be different).

I used to go out for a few days with a knife, mug and whatever I could fit in the mug, does it make me a bushcrafter??

No it doesn't, what does is what I do with the kit I carry and how I go about things, it matters little to me what you take, it is what you are out there to do and how you do things that make a difference.

Northern Bushcraft, great book and the author is a really nice bloke. The next time I am talking with Mors I'll mention that you mentioned his book, he'll probably smile.

If you haven't met the man you really should, there is so much more in that swirling mass of knowledge that sits on his shoulders than you could ever place in one book.

 

[Wayland]

knowledge of kit is easily acquired.

Actually I have found that since joining this forum the amount kit I take out with me has decreased slightly but the big change has been in the quality of that kit.

Read any outdoor magazine and they will promote the same plastic fashion kit that thier advertisers are pushing.

Go to a high street store and the story is the same.

The real benefit of the kit discussed on this forum is that it is fit for the purpose and stuff that isn't, is soon weeded out.

Ask for advice on this or that bit of gear and by sheer weight of numbers someone will have something useful to say or recommend.

I think the balance on this forum is about right. It does vary from time to time, the Yule wish list factor for example, but the bucksaw competition that rose out of a thread discussing the new bucksaw on the Woodlore site is a classic example of people deciding to run with an idea not a product.

 

[typha]

The kit discussions are useful, but don't you think there is too much kit discussion when you consider the vastness of the subject of bushcraft.When I say vastness of the subject what I mean is everything that is involved in the subject, be it fire lighting, trapping,primitive fishing methods, basketry, stone work, pottery, shelter construction, plant uses,hunting or cordage making to name but a few.A lifetime could be spent learning one of these subjects, they should be the majority not the minority.Leon-1 makes an intersting point about Mors Kochanski "there is so much more in that swirling mass of knowledge that sits on his shoulders than you could ever place in one book" surely a knowledge like his takes years to acquire and he is probably still learning even now, but not about kit.

 

[weekend_warrior]

Wayland, Thank You! My Point Exactly. You all label what you do as "Bushcraft" regardless of how you go about it.

Speak for yourself matey! I call it "going out for a while" I don't do labels.

Me? Well, I've learned loads since joining here - mostly through tutorials, discussions and the learned folks at the Moots. I contribute what I can and learn what is useful to me.

Surely the whole point of forums like this is to discuss and share - please feel free to start a post on any subject you'd like to educate us with - I'll read and absorb with pleasure.

There a great number of folk here with wildly ranging experience - some newbies, some seasoned industry names and everything in between and the membership is self serving in it is questions and the answers given. Maybe this doesn;t suit your sensibilities - I can understand why you might feel like that - so why not start some threads on the subjects you'd like to educate us on or learn about? Or am I missing the point of your post?

 

[Wayland]

One of the problems is that tutorials and discussions of techniques tend to require a significant amount of time and effort by somebody.

Most people want to see pictures and have detailed information.

Over the years many people on this site have invested that time and effort and this site is a phenomenal archive of such information. It was searching for such information that brought me to the site in the first place.

That information does not go out of date or become less useful with age and can be found using the seach tools.

Many people find the information they want without needing to post a new question so discussion often does not arise as a result.

On some occasions an old topic gets ressurected by someone adding a comment and that can open a topic to a new audience which is useful.

As far as kit talk goes I think there are two factors that make it appear more prevalent at times.

First we have the newbie factor, we get new members all the time, and it is not surprising that they want to know about basic kit. Unfortunately for the older members this means yet another sleeping bag/knife/waterpoof jacket thread but we were all newbies once.

Ranting about kit threads does nothing to encourage these new members and possibly puts some off because they are worried everyone thinks they are "not proper bushcrafters"

Nothing could be further from the truth. Without new blood the skills we seek to learn and preserve will die with this generation.

The other thing that makes kit threads come to the surface so regularly is new kit, new suppliers and new trends.

Whereas techniques have often been discussed before on the site, often a new widget is found and people want to discuss it.

To say that the ratio of kit / technique threads represents the nature of this forum is like saying that the reflection on a lake surface is all there is to the lake.

 

[dommyracer]

To say that the ratio of kit / technique threads represents the nature of this forum is like saying that the reflection on a lake surface is all there is to the lake.

Great analogy. I'm off fishing!