Bushcraft or Old Fashioned Camping?

[Fire Starter]

Two scenario's for you to consider

1, A man or woman goes out into the woods with tent and camps for a weekend. The rucksack contains the following -: gas stove, lighter, sleeping bag, matt, pot, plate, mug, spoon, spare clothes, first aid kit, food (tin of beans and corned beef, portage, etc), water flask, small axe, knife, telescopic fishing rod, reel and accessories, map and compass, binoculars, book on nature studies, bottle of fine malt and toilet paper.
The time is spent looking at nature, fishing and cooking their catch on the open fire, whittling sticks and in the evening sitting next to the fire with the bottle of malt, gazing at the night sky.


2, A man or woman goes out into the woods with tarp and camps for a weekend. The rucksack contains the following, trangia stove, fire steel, sleeping bag, hammock, reindeer skin, zebra pot, kelly kettle, plate, titanium mug, spoon, spare clothes, first aid kit, food (boil in a bag, bannock mix), etc, water bottle, small axe, saw, a few knifes, telescopic fishing rod, reel and accessories, map and compass, binoculars, book on nature studies, bottle of fine malt and toilet paper.
The time is spent looking at nature, fishing and cooking their catch on the open fire, whittling spoons and in the evening sitting next to the fire with the bottle of malt, gazing at the night sky.

Question - Which one is Bushcraft and which one is just old fashioned camping?

I personally think we can define this subject into those who are new age Bushcampers, Bushkitters, Those who know it all, but never practice any of it. Those who like the image with the look, who talk it but never walk it.
Then those who practice the art of bushcraft - The true Bushcrafters who see a knife as just a tool and strives for the knowledge and skills to enable him/her to live in the natural world without all the kit.

 

[typha]

I doubt if you will convert the "bushcampers" and "bushkitters" I think its to late.I wonder if anyone will see what you are getting at this time.

 

[dwardo]

Is it a trick question are they both the same ? I think that they are both the same just different means to the same ends and ill leave the labels up to you

roll matt = reindeer skin
tin of beans and corned beef, portage, etc = boil in a bag, bannock mix
tarp = tent

Im probably missing the point of your question again You seem to need to label stuff and set rules mate and personaly i dont think thats what its about. I am not arguing with you as i do not take a stove, tent i take a billy can and make a fire and cook my own food and sleep under a tarp.

This is gonna sound a little like some zen rubbish and i am far from any good at all this stuff as im only 12 months out of tent my self but its a state of mind as far as i see it. I see your point with the knives being just tools but whats wrong with having a good one and sharing/discussing the info on that ?

I think im gonna stop on this kinda question as i have said all i can realy.

AGAIN firestarter no offence indended

 

[Stew]

Fire Starter - you seem to have a real problem with people who like kit.

When you posted your rant about too much kit talk, I thought you might start some threads on skills but this one seems to be another moan about kit-lovers.
:twak:

So come on, ask something that's interesting rather than trying to wind people up!

 

[falling rain]

Why telescopic fishing rod and reel accessories on both lists? Surely true bushcraft would be cordage, fish hooks from wood, thorns etc, no rucksack or tarp but a brush shelter etc etc. Binoculars ??? Unless you can make a telescopic fishing rod and reel from stuff you find in the woods, and if you can please show me. Not meaning to be sarkie but the 2 lists don't make sense. It's all about how much you know and what skills you have or don't have as an individual and the 2 would cross innumerable times.

 

[ArkAngel]

EXACTLY the same thing, just different levels of kit

 

[John Dixon]

consider this:
man goes into the woods with just an axe, he spends the whole weekend playing the fire fiddle making shelters and foraging for food, whittling essesntial tools i.e spoons

or

Man goes into the woods with ruck sack full of kit i.e hammock, tarp and stoves etc. he spends a quater of his time meeting his needs and the remainder researching new plants he can eat and differernt ways to track..

with the advent of modern technology the opportunity for experimneting develops .. as life gets easier we have more free time .

both of the above appeals to me . its horses for course, pending on my reason to be there. to practice what i know or to learn new things............

 

[amott69]

I can see what your saying but i can't see where your going.I think kit is great and weather you useing a tent, tarp or leaf shelter does it really matter. are we going to condemn the great mountain men who lived the life, for taking pack horses full of kit into the mountains or are we saying you must live like a abo.The mountain men could live well without all the kit but most took a few luxurys.To me there both great bushcrafters and bushmen.

 

[QDanT]

I take loads of kit and I don't care at least I get out and ENJOY my self

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[Stuart]

your really hardline on this at the moment firestarter, why are you so concerned about what people choose to take with them?

I personally think we can define this subject into those who are new age Bushcampers, Bushkitters, Those who know it all, but never practice any of it. Those who like the image with the look, who talk it but never walk it.
Then those who practice the art of bushcraft - The true Bushcrafters who see a knife as just a tool and strives for the knowledge and skills to enable him/her to live in the natural world without all the kit.

you forgot bushranters

where would you place me in your ranking system I wonder?

 

[Wayland]

You seem to have an overriding need to categorize and pidgeon hole people.

The World just doesn't work like that.

By your inference a bushcrafter is someone that goes into the woods with minimal equipment, around here that would include the neds who take a couple of cans of Special Brew and tear down half the wood to make a fire.

On the otherhand there are the old mountain men who took a mule train of equipment into the hills and built a cabin, I guess they are just bushkitters then.

I've never met you, and I'm sure we would get on just fine sat around a camp fire, but at the moment you do seem to be trying to be "bushcraftier than thou" for some reason I can't quite fathom.

 

[dommyracer]

Man goes into the woods with ruck sack full of kit i.e hammock, tarp and stoves etc. he spends a quater of his time meeting his needs and the remainder researching new plants he can eat and differernt ways to track..

Exactly. At the moment, I like to have 'kit' so that I can make the most of the relatively little time I gget to spend in the woods, and spend as much of that time trying new stuff and learning stuff so that some time in the future I might be able to go on a trip and NOT take all the kit.

To be honest though, I'm not sure why I should bother to explain myself......

 

[oops56]

Well to me bushcraft is just get out into the woods off the main road and do it and if you forgot something at home make do with out it.Just look a round you be surprise what you con see and here.Get dirty you are not home.

 

[Zodiak]

Personally I would rather move in with tent/tarp+hammock, and a trangia and leave it exactly as I found it. Maybe a smallish fire at night if there was plenty of wood.

Its OK so long as the woods can keep up with replacing with what is taken, but there comes a point where it starst to be come deforrestation

Having said that I only take a 35ltr rucksack for a weekend (including food) and am not quite sure what everybody else needs

 

[spamel]

I have tons of kit, but it all gets used. I may use a tarp one weekend and the hex another. I may take the tarp but build a shelter and use the tarp as a backup like I did last night. The shelter was warm and kept the wind and rain off, the fire in front of the shelter kept me warm, yet I used a sleeping bag and thermarest. My wife bought me a Nova Plus, but I went with the Zebra billy and an open fire.

Am I meeting the criteria for a bushcrafter? I think so, and who is gonna tell me I'm not? As far as I am concerned, there are loads of people who are interested in bushcraft and never go out and do it. I am one up on them, but i don't care. I am enjoying myself, practising various skills so that I can use any one I like. I am adaptable in my various forms of bushcraft, with the exception of hand drill, which I still haven't sussed.

Forget rhetorical questions, what do you do and why do you think it makes you a bushcrafter?

 

[John Dixon]

isnt bushcraft just a name didnt it used to be called camp craft or survival or roughing it or adventurous camping or wild camping or traditional camping or bivinig or or or or or or.......... its all a concept that we have given a word.. But i think there is no right or wrong. if we use kit or not its still trying to develop our skills and the direction of the development will go in many directions from astral navigation to GPS.

How many of has practised our carving or fire lighting in the house or garage???????? Me for one i use the kit or luxery to develop my skills....

Words have meaning but it is often transient and fickell from one region to the next. god im waffeling i will shut up now

 

[Wayland]

Quite agree John.

When I was a kid I used to walk up onto the fells of Westmoreland with a blanket and a pack of sandwiches and stay out for a few nights.

I never even heard the term "Bushcraft" until the late 70s.

We took fish from the streams and tarns, cooked them by the banks and just had a really good time of it.

I never thought of it as having "bushcraft skills" but I have used those same "skills" in many walks of life since.

Why do we need to label everything as one thing or another. Half the Worlds troubles come from such roots and It serves little good purpose.

 

[Fire Starter]

I dought if you will convert the "bushcampers" and "bushkitters" I think its to late. I wonder if anyone will see what you are getting at this time.

Is it a trick question are they both the same ? I think that they are both the same just different means to the same ends and ill leave the labels up to you

roll matt = reindeer skin
tin of beans and corned beef, portage, etc = boil in a bag, bannock mix
tarp = tent

EXACTLY the same thing, just different levels of kit

Why do we need to label everything as one thing or another. Half the Worlds troubles come from such roots and It serves little good purpose.

Wayland, Thank You! My Point Exactly. You all label what you do as "Bushcraft" regardless of how you go about it.

 

[Goose]

The time is spent looking at nature, fishing and cooking their catch on the open fire, whittling spoons and in the evening sitting next to the fire with the bottle of malt, gazing at the night sky.

This is the only bit that is important to me really, maybe swap the malt for a can or two of bitter though! And add a couple of friends to put the world to rights around the fire too, sounds like an ideal weekend.
People go fishing(coarse angling), it isn't to catch fish to eat, personally when I have been fishing I have not been particularly bothered about catching fish, but it is an excuse to get out of the house and sit around a pond/lake/river for a bit chatting and putting the world to rights. Bushcrafting/camping/"bushkitting"/bushcamping whatever you want to call it is a means to an end for me, which is to chill out in a natural enviroment. If I am doing it with the family I will take literally the kitchen sink, but it means I can't get too far away from the car, going lighter with a tarp and hammock means I have more options than a family campsite, and if I take stuff to make things more comfortable that is my choice I don't care too much whether someone thinks it isn't proper bushcraft or not, as long as I am leaving no trace and not imposing my opinions on people who cares?

I learn new things from everybody at meets wether it is someone with loads of kit or a new way of recycling milk bottles, purists may say milk bottles or beercans arent natural but isnt it just another resource to be used?

 

[WhichDoctor]

Edit: I would just like to state that I found your original post some what confusing Fire Starter and so if I've got the wrong end of the stick I apologize.

I have never spent a night in the woods, mainly due to health reasons, but I reed avidly on this site, other internet sites and books. I go for short walks and try out and practice as many skills as I can in the outdoors but I also use the same skills of being able to solve problems with what I have to hand around the house and ells where. I would say that "bushcraft" can be best defined as a set of principles I.E. knowledge of your surroundings, respect for your surroundings, careful use of what you have and creative use of what you have around you to get what you need.

A person can be practicing bushcraft if they go into the woods with a rucksack full of kit and then just make what they didn't bring out of there surroundings, or if they go with nothing but a knife and a axe and make everything from scratch. But then some one who goes into the woods with nothing, then finds some flint naps a knife, uses that to make a axe etc would consider them to be kit heavy, but unless you grow up in a primitive culture you have to learn that by you're self. you have to have the spare time to try things you've never dun and practice what your not grate at and, as has been said you cant do that if you're spending all your time doing just the essentials.

Also just because you are interested in a subject doesn't mean you have to take it to the extreme, lots of people go mountain climbing but not many cline Everest, it doesn't mean there not mountain climbers. It takes a long time to get that good and not everyone haves the time or the inclination to do it, it doesn't mean they are bad people.

Just accept people as they are and stop playing semantics.