Banned dogs - thoughts
- Thread starter Scottieoutdoors
- Start date
-
Hey Guest, Early bird pricing on the Summer Moot (29th July - 10th August) available until April 6th, we'd love you to come. PLEASE CLICK HERE to early bird price and get more information.
I'd like to believe that, but dogs have in-bred tendencies. Both my Springers knew how to flush game and retrieve without me training them - OK, a bit of training improved their performance but they inherently knew what was expected of them.
A dog that has for generations been bred to fight and kill other dogs will have that as their base line tendency. You couldn't, for example, train many of these dogs to do a gun dog's task or to herd sheep.
Absolutely.
And that's why such a law would have another benefit - a responsible dog owner would only buy a animal they had space to let it run off lead privately. After all, what animal-loving person would want a massive dog if they only had a small garden and the animal couldn't exercise? Surely, someone buys a dog as a family pet, as something that enhances the whole family experience. In which case, breed is secondary, surely? And so you'd buy an animal based on the space you have for it rather because of what it looks like and (one often wonders) what it makes you look like. Small garden = small dog.
And an irresponsible owner would be charged with mistreating the animal if it couldn't exercise properly.
Oh, and before someone raises the question, let's address the 'how do you enforce it?' matter.
Simple enough. It's enforced the same way all laws are enforced - by civic responsibility.
The vast majority obey laws out of duty and respect for others without need for any surveillance or enforcement.
Let's draw an analogy with drink driving.
Most of us don't drink drive, despite the fact that we could get away with it.
However, I'm sure it is a law that is occasionally broken, but the person may have had just one pint too many and no one has reported them and they've driven home carefully. Just like that person who takes the dog for a walk, let's it off lead but no one sees it (or cares) so they get away with it. Of course it happens.
However, sometimes someone has too much, is reckless, and they have an accident and someone else may be harmed or killed, and the Police get involved. Similarly, someone lets their dog off the lead and attacks someone.
A law such as 'dogs on lead' will get broken by some, just like drink driving. But I am sure that doesn't mean we would want drink driving laws repealed.
It works the same way.
Simple enough. It's enforced the same way all laws are enforced - by civic responsibility.
The vast majority obey laws out of duty and respect for others without need for any surveillance or enforcement.
Let's draw an analogy with drink driving.
Most of us don't drink drive, despite the fact that we could get away with it.
However, I'm sure it is a law that is occasionally broken, but the person may have had just one pint too many and no one has reported them and they've driven home carefully. Just like that person who takes the dog for a walk, let's it off lead but no one sees it (or cares) so they get away with it. Of course it happens.
However, sometimes someone has too much, is reckless, and they have an accident and someone else may be harmed or killed, and the Police get involved. Similarly, someone lets their dog off the lead and attacks someone.
A law such as 'dogs on lead' will get broken by some, just like drink driving. But I am sure that doesn't mean we would want drink driving laws repealed.
It works the same way.
Whatever their teldencies it's the owner that deals with it appropriately or not.
I recall of a current affairs programme that looked into the big dog issue. They interviewed a sociologist who researched dangerous dog breed ownership especially in the gang or violent sections of society. In Liverpool I believe which has a big issue with it. He ended up getting one of the banned breeds but he met all legal and regulatory requirements to do so. The subjects of his study did not meet those requirements.
I like the world according to @Wander where laws like a dogs on lead law or even existing drink driving laws are mostly obeyed. I'm a bit more cynical I reckon.
Drink driving? Happens all the time. Did you know if you're over the limit when you've had alcohol and driven? How? Without measuring it you're only guessing. Round here people drive to the pub, drink then drive home. I would bet a high number were over the limit if tested.
Then again driving regulations, how many ppl follow those to the letter? Civic responsibility when behind a steering wheel doesn't exist! Classic example is the slowing down for a speed camera! Followed shortly afterwards by the speeding up again.
There's two things with legislation, setting the laws and enforcing the laws. It's impossible to enforce the laws in every case so everyone picks and chooses what laws to obey and when.
Apply draconian dog laws on everyone you'll not get compliance without a lot of money for enforcement. Where I used to live they put up local byelaws requiring use of dog leads on the canal towpath. Let's just say that resulted in a few weeks of local discussion but no adherence to the bylaws!
Drink driving? Happens all the time. Did you know if you're over the limit when you've had alcohol and driven? How? Without measuring it you're only guessing. Round here people drive to the pub, drink then drive home. I would bet a high number were over the limit if tested.
Then again driving regulations, how many ppl follow those to the letter? Civic responsibility when behind a steering wheel doesn't exist! Classic example is the slowing down for a speed camera! Followed shortly afterwards by the speeding up again.
There's two things with legislation, setting the laws and enforcing the laws. It's impossible to enforce the laws in every case so everyone picks and chooses what laws to obey and when.
Apply draconian dog laws on everyone you'll not get compliance without a lot of money for enforcement. Where I used to live they put up local byelaws requiring use of dog leads on the canal towpath. Let's just say that resulted in a few weeks of local discussion but no adherence to the bylaws!
Though, no doubt, there are certain traits that are deeply ingrained in specific breeds, it's down to the owner to accommodate for that. It's always going to be the case that some people don't live up to that responsibilty, but ultimately that's the case for all manner of things, you just navigate the world accordingly.
I really struggle to understand this desire to ban everything and call for more limitations. There has to be an acceptance of risk in order to have any sort of meaningful life.
I really struggle to understand this desire to ban everything and call for more limitations. There has to be an acceptance of risk in order to have any sort of meaningful life.
Or doesn't work, in the same way. I'm not sure if your post is naive or you live somewhere nicer than most but round here drink driving is also common, people are quite open about the fact they use the back roads when they know they are over the limit and no one seems to object.
Same as dogs, it is illegal to not have a collar on a dog in public but it is very common to see dogs without collars round here. Round the towns and villages here people should pick up after their dog and you would expect peer pressure to ensure it happens but the paths are often covered in dog mess.
It's not legal to have dogs dangerously out of control but it happens, quite frequently it seems, hence you wanting tougher laws. I'd argue for enforcing existing laws for the worst offenders first before unnecessarily introducing new laws that only the people who are not currently the problem would obey.
Where I used to live most dog owners picked up after their own. One guy often didn't, often didn't even watch their dogs. When he was out jogging he never watched his dogs, leaving them to follow at their own pleasure. He got confronted once by a guy living in a canal boat with known temper / instability when he sees wrong shall we say. Anyway the guy said he didn't have a bag to pick it up, the local, psycho didn't care! The guy picked it up by hand, put both dogs on leads and went home! We didn't see him around after that!
Anyway, that tale aside, the problem guy was certainly a well heeled professional type with money, education and likely law abiding in most things. He was totally antisocial when walking his dogs. He had generally nice black labs, though they were slightly out of control when playing with small dogs. Luckily my little terrier knows how to deal with problematic labrador dogs! My point though is problem owners come from all walks of life but often for other reasons than the aggression issue. The same people with an xl bully might well be as bad.
Anyway, that tale aside, the problem guy was certainly a well heeled professional type with money, education and likely law abiding in most things. He was totally antisocial when walking his dogs. He had generally nice black labs, though they were slightly out of control when playing with small dogs. Luckily my little terrier knows how to deal with problematic labrador dogs! My point though is problem owners come from all walks of life but often for other reasons than the aggression issue. The same people with an xl bully might well be as bad.
This really sums up the short sighted way in which these issues are approached.
Petition: Require leads, muzzles and licences for all dogs
Change the law to make it a legal requirement to keep a dog on a lead and wearing a muzzle in any public place. Also require all dog owners have a licence to own their dogs.petition.parliament.uk
I've signed it.
If you keep your dog permanently on a lead in public, it's going to be under exercised, under stimulated and badly socialised. In turn, leading to an anxious, frustrated and unpredictable animal.
So we make it, essentially, impossible for most people in the country to own a dog, despite the massive improvement they bring to people lives (exercise, mental health, companionship etc) even though the vast majority of dogs are fine. And just reduce the numbers down to a few, hidden away and most likely riddled with anxiety problems.
I'm not certain, but I reckon there might be a better option.
I'm not certain, but I reckon there might be a better option.
I guess the blind people using sight dogs are going to be a bit buggered also.
Oh well. Progress.
Oh well. Progress.
Naah, be reet. Just lightweight ones, maybe some chubby guide dogs.
Obviously they get their BMI checked by a vet every year and if they're a bit buff its a shot of immobilon and no revivon offered.
I wonder if they'll use the flotation test to measure displacement? Bit like testing for witches? Vets will need a water tank and Stevie Wonder will need a few spare dogs, just to be sure.
What about emotional support dogs? Keep them muzzled and on a lead and they might become more in need of emotional support than their clients!
There's also other kinds of support dogs too. All need to be free to move and unmuzzled to do their role. Hey! What about SARDA dogs? You'd need a really long lead to allow them to do a search pattern. But would long leads not lead to sufficient control so MRT teams would need a super fit person to run around with the search and rescue dog on a short lead.
Of course anyone can think of exceptions to even good ideas, which this isn't.
There's also other kinds of support dogs too. All need to be free to move and unmuzzled to do their role. Hey! What about SARDA dogs? You'd need a really long lead to allow them to do a search pattern. But would long leads not lead to sufficient control so MRT teams would need a super fit person to run around with the search and rescue dog on a short lead.
Of course anyone can think of exceptions to even good ideas, which this isn't.
