Austrian M65 waterproof membrane - bonded or just sandwiched?

[hermitical]

Hi folks

So, the Austrian M65 with either a Gore-Tex or Sympatex membrane. Is that membrane bonded to the poly-cotton outer or is it merely loosely sandwiched between the outer and the inner lining?

 

[TLM]

It seems to vary, Sympatex is always bonded to some layer (at least all I have seen), I I remember correctly it was bonded to the outer shell.

These two membranes work very differently, while neither is great when the outer is wet Goretex has worked better on those garments I have tested. Sympatex is best when the weather is cool or cold and reasonably dry.

 

[hermitical]

Thanks TLM. Full disclosure, I've got a Sympatex version.

The reason I ask as I wanted to be sure of the best way of proofing it. I tend to use Nikwax so had the choice of using Cotton Proof and/or the TX Direct for Goretex etc.

I asked Nikwax and the response was that Goretex etc is bonded to Polycotton outers so use Cotton Proof. But it feels to me like the Sympatex membrane is a loose layer, not bonded to either the outer or the liner.

 

[TLM]

Sympatex is mechanically stronger than Goretex, it has some stretch too. The best outer layer for all these texes would be something that has low enough surface energy so that water does not wet it and preferably just runs off the surface. It also should not get wet because that stops air going through and also the water that has hopefully found its way on the outside of the membrane, that is the reason for DWR on all modern membrane cloths.

I'll see what Leka's people experience is on Austrian surplus uniforms, if I recall correctly they think it is generally high quality.

 

[Erbswurst]

I have a very old worn off "M65" waterproof jacket and can see and grab inside because there is an open seam.

You have an outer Nylon fabric, a loose hanging membrane and the inner Nylon liner fabric.
These three layers are NOT glued together like you find it at other military rain jackets.

(The new KAZ 03 rain jackets in totally different cut have a three layer military Goretex laminate as usual.)

 

[Erbswurst]

The Austrian stuff is of course generally high quality but these waterproof "M65" jackets aren't as tough as for example the German army Goretex suit or the newer KAZ 03 Goretex jackets.

I would buy a unissued one but not anymore a used one unless they really throw it behind me.

 

[hermitical]

Much appreciated folks

Any thoughts on best proofing method? Just the poly-cotton outer as Nikwax suggested, even though the layers aren't bonded?

 

[TLM]

According to Leka people the older Austrian jackets have the membrane fastened to the liner depending on patch, the newer ones tend to have a loose membrane.

I think the nest "proofing" would be a DWR like treatment that does not close the outer fabric, with waxes that would be like a light treatment not full impregnation

 

[hermitical]

thanks TLM