Almost success with the handdrill!

[torjusg]

After struggeling with building satisfying consistency in getting fires going with a bowdrill, I decided I would give the handdrill a go (partly due to the article in the Bushcraft magazine). I went out today and got a dead piece of wild rose and a dead limb of an alder tree. That is a good combination with the bowdrill (Next best to bird cherry on elder in my opinion).

Being a purist, I used only stone tools in every stage of course. The elder limb had a crack in it, making it easy to drive in a simple wedge and split it for two fireboards. I cleaned the end of the spindle and took of the thorns and the bark and made a slight depression in the fireboard with a flint flake. After a short burn-in I made the notch with the same flake.

I decided to do it in as controlled conditions as possible (to my girlfreind's frustration) in the apartment. After a surprisingly short time I got thick smoke and a nice pile of black dust in the notch. In the end a blister popped and worried by the stench of smoke I decided to see if I had a coal (stupid me, didn't direct the notch towards me )

Well, there was not a coal there, but pretty close. Some of the dust had gathered to a solid lump. Being that close, I can't wait for my blister to heal.

Edit: Fixed a bad sentence.
Edit2: It was alder not elder.

Torjus Gaaren

 

[Calypso]

Well done - keep practicing. You may get even more success as the wood dries out in your appartment. The article in the magazine is really useful and following those guidelines worked for me.

 

[Jeff Wagner]

That sounds like you're nearly there. Great progress. Good for you!

 

[torjusg]

Thanks for the kind words guys.

I've caught fire by friction fewer. Had to make a fire with the bowdrill today, just to get the feeling.

Having problems of getting much results out of controlled conditions though. I think I get reckless with preparations when I get out into the bush.

I have heard that it is very hard to make a coal with a handdrill in cold (-10C or so) conditions, have any of you done it?

Torjus Gaaren

 

[jdlenton]

Thats great Torjus another few goes and you'll be there

i got my first coal from hand drill this weekend at the full members meet using rich59's (the author of the article in the mag) hand drill setup I'm going to cut my own on the way home from work tonight and leave it to dry while I wait for the blister i got to heal.

James

 

[JonnyP]

Hi Torjus...........I managed to get an ember (after many attemps) at the full members meet too. I had real trouble getting a grip on the drill because my hands are so dry, and so I was not getting the downward pressure, but I used some wax that Bardster had and after rubbing it into my hands, it left them a bit tacky so I was able to get a grip on the drill and succeed. Keep at it, you will get there in the end...........................Jon

 

[rich59]

After struggeling with building satisfying consistency in getting fires going with a bowdrill, I decided I would give the handdrill a go (partly due to the article in the Bushcraft magazine). I went out today and got a dead piece of wild rose and a dead limb of an elder tree. That is a good combination with the bowdrill (Next best to bird cherry on elder in my opinion).

May I suggest that materials that are good for bow drilling are not always the best for hand drilling. The major difference is that the hand drill relies more on pressure than speed. At high pressure only the finest grained materials give the correct fine dark dust.

My suggestion would be to change your wild rose drill for elder. Then you would have elder on elder which works for me if I keep the diameter of the drill down at the lower sizes - like 1cm.

I have a garden rose that is superb as a hand drill, but recent experiments with wild rose have not been successful.

I have great respect for your determination and approach. I am sure you will succeed in time.

 

[torjusg]

Thank you all!

Rich,

The wild rose I have doesn't seem too bad, but I will see if I find some elder saplings too.

Your article was very inspiring and informative, but I have one thing to point out that I believe has to be wrong. It is about the pressure thing. When you use a bathroomscale you write that you have to excert about 8lb of pressure to achieve smoke. But that reading doesn't take into account the "give" of the scale. The energy absorbed by the scale could have been put to use in the friction between the pieces. So if you had a solid, nonmoving surface you will actually need less than 8lb to achieve the same. Hard to say how much, but I am sure it can be solved if one is good in maths and physics.

Just reasoning here, not trying to claim that I am already proficient or something. Does this fit with your real-life experience? Is it harder to make a fire on the scale?

Torjus Gaaren

 

[rich59]

Thank you all!

Rich,

The wild rose I have doesn't seem too bad, but I will see if I find some elder saplings too.

Your article was very inspiring and informative, but I have one thing to point out that I believe has to be wrong. It is about the pressure thing. When you use a bathroomscale you write that you have to excert about 8lb of pressure to achieve smoke. But that reading doesn't take into account the "give" of the scale. The energy absorbed by the scale could have been put to use in the friction between the pieces. So if you had a solid, nonmoving surface you will actually need less than 8lb to achieve the same. Hard to say how much, but I am sure it can be solved if one is good in maths and physics.

Just reasoning here, not trying to claim that I am already proficient or something. Does this fit with your real-life experience? Is it harder to make a fire on the scale?

Torjus Gaaren

<<Does this fit with your real-life experience? Is it harder to make a fire on the scale?>>

Thanks Torjus. Interesting question. Science would suggest that the extra work = Force X distance moved. In the case of pressing on a set of scales up to a measured weight then the total work would be:-

Force measured / 2 X distance moved

The distance moved is the amount the scales surface is depressed downwards by the weight - perhaps a millimetre or two.

That could easily be worked out in exact Joules or Kilo joules. Without working it out I would think it was quite a small number.

Back to the practicalities. No, it didn't seem to be harder to do on the scales.

<<The wild rose I have doesn't seem too bad, but I will see if I find some elder saplings too.>>

I harvest 2nd year wood, growing strongly from low down after a previous cutting back, cut from the live bush, about 75cm long. I then strip off the bark and any branches. One grown on a poor soil gives a thinner spindle (than one grown on rich soil) and may more often give a drill where the thicker end is 1 to 1.5 cm. I then put it in my hot water tank cupboard for 2 or more days to dry before use.

Good luck.

 

[torjusg]

My suggestion would be to change your wild rose drill for elder. Then you would have elder on elder which works for me if I keep the diameter of the drill down at the lower sizes - like 1cm.

I used the wrong word. It was alder not elder. Elder isn't to be found wild in Norway. Alder on alder didn't work at all, the ends became glazed.

I have to look around for some other woods then. Maybe bird cherry will work? And I have heard something about using a cattail stalk.

Torjus Gaaren

 

[match]

I've recently got back into hand drill experimenting after not doing much fire stuff for a long while.

I was playing around last night with buddleia on pine (pallet) - the buddleia spindle is quite thing (0.8mm) and it drills very effectively into the pallet, producing lots of smoke (not too dissimilar to with a bow drill) and lots of dust, but a dark brown loose dust that never congeals into a coal. It also drills very deeply very quickly, so that the friction on the sides of the drill causes sticking and a new hole needs to be started.

I've previously made a coal on the same hearth with a straight piece of holly, although this took a lot longer to even get dust forming, so I know its not a question of pressure, and the buddleia 'feels right' somehow - any recommendations on a different hearth, or should I revisit my technique?

 

[rich59]

Buddliea on pine - my favourite combination.

You need a bigger diameter drill.

 

[torjusg]

I managed it!!

Finally I got a coal, although a very small one!

The board was a dead piece of alder, while the spindle was a dead piece of wild rose.

I am extremely excited, have been struggeling with getting all the way, but I feel that I have learned a lot in the process. One of them being that dried, fresh-cut wild rose is nearly impossible to get a coal with, while dead-cut it performs quite well.



Torjus Gaaren

 

[JonnyP]

I managed it!!

Finally I got a coal, although a very small one!

The board was a dead piece of alder, while the spindle was a dead piece of wild rose.

I am extremely excited, have been struggeling with getting all the way, but I feel that I have learned a lot in the process. One of them being that dried, fresh-cut wild rose is nearly impossible to get a coal with, while dead-cut it performs quite well.



Torjus Gaaren

Well done Torjus, good on ya, now keep at it and you will become proficient at it.................Jon

 

[Ogri the trog]

Well done Torjus,
It is a skill that I don't posses as yet but I intend to pick Rich59's brains at the Bushmoot next month - don't tell him though, it'll be a supprise

ATB

Ogri the trog

 

[rich59]

Well done Torjus,
It is a skill that I don't posses as yet but I intend to pick Rich59's brains at the Bushmoot next month - don't tell him though, it'll be a supprise

ATB

Ogri the trog

Ugh??

What was that? Didn't quite hear.

 

[rich59]

Well done Torjus!


I just threw out my bit of wild rose I was trying with this weekend!! Alder you say as a hearth board? I have a bit of that somewhere..........

My garden rose works far better than my wild rose - so may be dependant on the species and variey of rose.