1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.
  2. Hey Guest, We're having our annual Winter Moot and we'd love you to come. PLEASE LOOK HERE to secure your place and get more information.
    For forum threads CLICK HERE
    Dismiss Notice

Veggies get a raw deal

Discussion in 'Cooking' started by Wayne, Dec 10, 2016.

  1. Leshy

    Leshy Full Member

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2016
    Messages:
    2,394
    Likes Received:
    54
    Location:
    Wiltshire
    Sorry I'm not the OP , but if I may add my 2p...

    It seems many folk get this confused.
    I think I got this right....
    A vegan does not eat animal products, no dairy or anything derived from animals or containing animal fat etc.

    As I understand, vegetarians will eat/drink dairy products and eggs.

    To confuse matters, some vegetarian folk will eat fish and fish derived products , these tend to be called pescatarians....
    ☺
    Hope it helps
     
  2. dewi

    dewi Full Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2015
    Messages:
    2,643
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Cheshire
    Not to mention the vegetarians that only eat vegetables that are already dead… fruitarians I think… or I might have dreamt it. Either way, its a bit daft.
     
  3. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Messages:
    11,988
    Likes Received:
    2,149
    Location:
    Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
    I have to work by very strict ethical rules, and try to live also by very strict ethics.
    Animal welfare and sustainable farming in general is something I believe is far more important than food that is cheap. I am, just as Nature intended, an Omnivore.

    I respect both Vegans and Vegetarians, but I think they do not understand what a devastating impact it would be on our societies if everybody stopped eating meat and fish.

    Millions of farmers and associated professions unemployed. For a start!
     
  4. dewi

    dewi Full Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2015
    Messages:
    2,643
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Cheshire
    It depends… there would be a greater demand for vegetables, grain, dairy… and there would be more transportation of these goods, so the jobs might not end, but be transformed… pretty much as it has been throughout history.

    Appreciate jobs will be lost, but that is one of the reasons I'm nervous about driverless cars and trucks… that is a lot of jobs gone when they perfect it.
     
  5. dewi

    dewi Full Member

    Joined:
    May 26, 2015
    Messages:
    2,643
    Likes Received:
    2
    Location:
    Cheshire
    But without bees there would be….. ahhh… :rolleyes: :p
     
  6. Robson Valley

    Robson Valley Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2014
    Messages:
    7,904
    Likes Received:
    1,182
    Location:
    McBride, BC
    Not quite. Vegetarians and Vegans are always killing living plants.
    Potatoes, they skin those alive and boil them to death! If a potato was dead, it could not sprout, Fact? Yes?

    Wheat seeds must be alive, too or they could not germinate.
    Pound those into a powder. Add water and fungus and let it decompose for a while.
    Let the rotted mess heat up to kill the fungus. When it cools, eat it! aka bread.

    Honey is evaporated and condensed bee vomit. Puke. Spew. Chunder.
    The wax is bee sweat.
    Bees make honey and they do not need human help to do it.
    We know from experience that we can steal their overproduction.

    I taught my little children to count by biting the individual legs off cooked calimari.
    Gotta love being an omnivore.
     
  7. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Messages:
    11,988
    Likes Received:
    2,149
    Location:
    Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
    Cooked calamari? It is more fun eating them like the Japanese, still alive and kicking.
    A steeper learning curve for the Arithmetic's too!

    They wriggle like mad when you dip them in Wasabi!
     
  8. Robson Valley

    Robson Valley Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2014
    Messages:
    7,904
    Likes Received:
    1,182
    Location:
    McBride, BC
    We don't eat bait!
     
  9. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Messages:
    11,988
    Likes Received:
    2,149
    Location:
    Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
    Sardines are bait, yet we eat them!
    Raw meat and sea food is more easily digested than cooked. Our digestive system, even when healthy, has to work hard to digest heat coagulated / denatured proteins.
     
  10. santaman2000

    santaman2000 M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,970
    Likes Received:
    689
    Location:
    Florida
    Thanks. I understood the difference; I was trying to learn which one the OP actually meant?

    Back in the day we didn't have the word "vegan." back then they were referred to as:

    a) "Vegetarians" meaning they didn't eat meat or any animal product; or
    b) "Lacto-Vegetarians" meaning they didn't eat meat proper but they could eat animal products such as dairy, eggs, or honey.
     
  11. santaman2000

    santaman2000 M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,970
    Likes Received:
    689
    Location:
    Florida
    LOL. That was a great movie for the kids. www.imdb.com/title/tt0389790
     
  12. Robson Valley

    Robson Valley Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2014
    Messages:
    7,904
    Likes Received:
    1,182
    Location:
    McBride, BC
    No Janne.
    Denatured proteins are particularly succeptible to human digestive enzymes.
    We secrete a bunch of them which are able to cleave particular peptide bonds.
    Cooking lowers the energy of activation need to cleave the bonds when compared
    with the difficulties of cutting the same bonds in raw meats.

    In addition, the dental cleavage pressures in cooked foods are reduced to the point that humans
    do not need to spend much daily waking chewing and eating time as do any and all of the other primates.
     
  13. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Messages:
    11,988
    Likes Received:
    2,149
    Location:
    Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
    You refer to cooking in water.
    A steak that is well done, with a charred imprint of the grid on the outside, is hard to digest.

    Gently cooking vegetables in little water makes them easily digested, and easier to extract the nutrients. This way nit many nutrients escape into the water.
     
    #113 Janne, Dec 15, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
  14. santaman2000

    santaman2000 M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,970
    Likes Received:
    689
    Location:
    Florida
    A steak, or any meat, cooked on a grill and charred (also one cooked in an oven and charred) is actually carcinogenic. Well done meat tastes horrible unless smothered with gravy.
     
  15. Robson Valley

    Robson Valley Full Member

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2014
    Messages:
    7,904
    Likes Received:
    1,182
    Location:
    McBride, BC
    I always steam my vegetables. I do boil potato pieces which will be smashed and fried.
    I have not cooked beef for 15 years. I eat bison instead. I buy a side from a 2yr old on average of once a year.
    All local including the butchering. I barter than for other meats (tonight is elk roast).
    All North American big game is very low in fat, in the range of 2g per 100g cooked meat. Chicken is 9g, beef is 11g.
    Consequently, the cooking technique is different to keep it fork-cutting tender. That`s what I do.
    Stove top, oven, grill or BBQ. I see no reason to change.
     
  16. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Messages:
    11,988
    Likes Received:
    2,149
    Location:
    Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
    Robson V, you are a very, very lucky man!
    The only wild meats here are fish, conch and lobster ( warm water species that are not so tasty), iguanas and Cayman Rabbit ( agouti with a tastier name)

    When I wrote charred, I was referring to the areas that got dark by resting on the grill grid.
    You can not avoid those!
    Eating red meat has been shown to be causing cancer, amongst other diseases, but I personally do not care.

    Eating to much veggies causes problems too.
     
    #116 Janne, Dec 15, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
  17. Toddy

    Toddy Mod
    Mod

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2005
    Messages:
    34,958
    Likes Received:
    1,300
    Location:
    S. Lanarkshire
    Y'know my housewifelyness has a background in archaeology too ? well, it gives you an exposure, an understanding, to the realities of the lives that people lived. People who had nothing like the sheer range of food options that we do now. People whose entire lives were so centred upon seasonality, and at times rather lean seasons, that they exploited every available option to keep themselves and their families fed.

    The cooking bit is crucial; humanity thrived without claws or fangs or rasp like tongues or multiple stomachs or grinding teeth and jaws that would put a mammoth to shame. We're clever though, and we have hands (and importantly collar bones and shoulder joints that let us use those hands most effectively)
    The cooking also makes much of what would otherwise be poor nutrition food a much better option.

    We are omnivores, but we are cooking omnivores.

    We now are omnivores with an enormous range of choices, and we know from the historical record that people in the past also made choices. Some that might seem illogical to us, but were important to them. The Romans said that some of the Celts did not eat fish….which seemed totally weird to them since they slathered everything in their fish sauce :rolleyes:….and we know that other folks didn't eat pigs, while some refused to eat snakes, or shellfish, or eggs and there are societies that are thousands of years old that are vegetarian too…..it's all a muddle; some of it religious, some of it an individual or societal geas, or simply personal choice, but it didn't make them unhealthy or unable to breed and rear healthy offspring.

    Humanity is an incredibly adaptable species, but I truly believe that variety is good for us :D whether that variety includes meat in the diet or not, is a personal/societal choice.

    I choose not to eat meat. I find the idea of eating meat to be repulsive even though I know it's good food. If there were only meat available, I'd starve.
    I avoid eggs like the plague, fish is a total no!, and I can't digest milk or soft cheeses. (I admit the dairy industry causes me disquiet :eek:) Honey I have no problems with, especially now that the bees are not killed to remove the comb, and I do like mature cheddar, even if it doesn't always like me much :sigh:
    So the occasional bit of mature cheddar or well roasted veggie friendly halloumi, and honey apart, I'm pretty much vegan.
    It's not uncommon in the wide scope of humanity really.

    What comes out most clearly in this thread though, is just how lucky we all are that we can honestly find enough food in the first place, and that we have choices in that food; and that's true regardless of whether we're in the sodden wet UK, snowbound in Canada or baking in the heat in the Caymans :D
    It's an amazement of riches :D

    Veggie food on the campfire though ? I want to try that marsh samphire that Compo Semite mentioned in post No.4 :D

    M
     
    #117 Toddy, Dec 15, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2016
  18. santaman2000

    santaman2000 M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2011
    Messages:
    15,970
    Likes Received:
    689
    Location:
    Florida
    Much of our bison is actually farmed rather than truly wild. That said it's still framed free range and generally free of artificial hormones and antibiotics.

    You don't like Caribbean fish? Dorado? Red Snapper? (and other snappers) Pompano? King Mackerel? Flounder? Grouper? Tuna? Florida Lobster is delicious. (as is conch)
     
  19. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Messages:
    11,988
    Likes Received:
    2,149
    Location:
    Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
    No, sincerely, I do not. I like Snapper Ceviche, belly of tuna Sashimi. The Spiny lobster ( I guess you call it Florida lobster) does nit taste as good as North Atlantic lobster. I have it a couple of times a year, blsckened and grilled. Lots of home made Scitch Binnet sause on.
    I used to fish here quite a bit, my favourite was Black Triggerfish.
     
  20. Janne

    Janne M.A.B (Mad About Bushcraft)

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2016
    Messages:
    11,988
    Likes Received:
    2,149
    Location:
    Grand Cayman, Norway, Sweden
    Toddy, my weird cuisine is msinly due to having a mother that is/was a food historian. Our family were exposed to recreated European food going back millenia, including all the experimenting. I am a human guinea pig!

    Garum? Yep, she even tried to create that. The best/ tastiest version was quite similar to a (fishy) Worcestershire sauce.

    I have inherited a bit of her food experiment gene.
    Recently I have started making my own European version of Kimchi.

    Historically it was easy to be a vegetarian in the sub tropics and tropics. The further Nirth/South you go, the more important meat /animal fat has been.
    In cold climates it has not been possible to grow ir forage enough vegetabkes/nuts to sustain a human during much if the year.
    As recently as WW2 the most important part of an snimal was the fat, as it contains the most calories.
    Veg was impossible to preserve in the needed quantities. Scorbut was fairly common in most Europe during that time, specially in the countries where sauerkraut was not traditionally eaten.
     
    #120 Janne, Dec 16, 2016
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2016

Share This Page