Any tracker type people out there?

[Topcat02]

Hi All,

Whilst exploring the local woods last weekend, I came across the following.

At the base of a tree was a "scraped away" area, about 12" in diameter. That is to say all the foilage had been scraped away until it was just earth.

On the tree from about 3" to a height of about 24" were areas where the bark had either been scraped or scratched away.

I do have some pictures but they arent particularly helpful. My guesses are that it might be a Deer scratching post, some kind of bird roost, perhaps?, or maybe some feline scratching post.

Any ideas?

TC

[directdrive]

Do you all have deer in those woods? What you've described sounds very much like a "scrape" (the cleared earth area) and a "rub" the scratched up bark on the tree. The "scrape" is a sign-post left by a buck. He will scrape away the leaves and other debris on the ground and then urinate in that spot. It is both a signal to hot does and a warning to other bucks. The "rub" is a place on a tree where the buck works his antlers and thrusts against the tree. This is something bucks do that strengthens their neck muscles for the combat with other bucks that will come during the "rut" or mating season. Of course, since I can't see it, I can't tell. Best, Bruce

[2blackcat]

Don't rabbits and rodents work at that height?
IIRC they try to get to the inner bark at this time of year

A bit early to be warming up for the rut?

Were there any teeth marks? Size? Velvet?

This could always be moved to the tracking section by a nice mod?

Geoffrey or Ian will give a lot better answers than I ever could

[philaw]

Wild boar dig the ground up.

[Buckshot]

At that height it's likely to be a Roe deer marking.
I'm assuming it's a sapling rather than a full grown tree, deer will rub small trees they can get thier antlers around. When the antler is formed the velvet surrounding the bone and supplying it with blood dries out and seems to irritate the deer. It's thought that scraping the antler over saplings rubs the tatty velvet off and gives some relief to the poor buck. Later on when he's trying to show off to the local females he will also vent his hormones on a sapling he's sure he can beat up, scraping his feet at the base of it as well.
You tend to find more of these signs where there isn't a dominant buck in the area and so several younger bucks are trying to jostle for the position - that's why it's advisable to leave 1 dominant male to oversee the others, less tree damage for the farmer.
The fraying on the tree is quite low compared to the size of deer (all deer with antlers fray if there are trees about). If you think about it, the deer has to lower his head so that the antlers (which are postioned by his ears) are facing forward. To do this his head needs to be nearly level with his shoulders or even a bit lower perhaps. This means the fray marks are lower on the tree than you might expect but it is possible to identify the species of deer from the type and hieght of the fray on the tree.

Hope this helps

Mark

[Ed]

This could always be moved to the tracking section by a nice mod?

Done

Ed

[bambodoggy]

I tend to agree with BuckShot in what he suggests about it being Roe Deer.

The only other thing I can think of is maybe Badger but without seeing it I couldn't be too sure....where there any other signs about, tracks or holes or anything?

Bam.

[Adi]

I would firstly say deer from what you have said but do domestic stock have access to the area it could be cow or even horse scratching post, as others have said was there any other sign that could help.

[Topcat02]

Sorry about the lack of posts, I have been at Centreparcs this week, and didnt have access to the internet. Not sure how I survived.

Thx for all the responses, I'll try and post some pics to hopefully assist.

One of the pictures shows the cleared area, with a coin to give an idea of scale. The tree was about 4-5 feet in circumference.

It may have been my imagination, but there appeared to be a bird foot shaped impression in the dirt, (possibly pheasant size).

The area does have minimal livestock, in the form of sheep left to their own devices. However there were no sheep droppings within 40 meters of this tree, and no discernible sheep tracks.

Hope the pictures show up!

[wolf]

hiya mate,if you get back to that tree have a look around on that trunk,ill bet theres a hair or two that will give you your answer.

[pierre girard]

Definitely sounds like a deer scrape.

Came across an extraordinary scrape site about a month and a half ago. I heard some wolves, and set out to investigate. A nice 12 point buck had been making a scrape and rub. The rub was on two balsams fairly close together at their base. The buck got his antlers between the two trees, and slipped or whatever, and ended up laying on his side with his antlers stuck between the two trees. He'd dug up quite a trench in his efforts to free himself. He'd been dead for at least a week when I found him. Very sad. Nice deer. I suppose I should have taken the antlers, but I didn't have time.

PG

[bambodoggy]

From the photos I'm still fairly sure it's deer you've got there Mate

Oh and you're right, the bird track in that photo is a pheasant

Why not go to your local DIY place and grab a 25kg bag of sand (it's a couple of quid if that - get the cheap builders sand) and spread it out to a depth of about 1cm around the tree to make a sand trap. Then check it as regularly as you can (daily if possible in the mornings) and let us know what tracks you get? If racked carefully each day the sand should be good for about a week and whatever if doing the scratching will "hopefull" be along in that time

Hope that helps,

Bam.

[Topcat02]

Thanks guys,

Unfortunately I cant remember exactly where it was. At the time we were trying to do some map reading to locate the source of a spring, and I was on one side of a brook, and my mate on the other. I clambered to the top of a hill, and was trying to get back to where he was when I noticed the tree.

I dont think I could find that individual tree amongst the thousands that were there. But now that I know what I'm looking for I will try and find some more evidence of the creatures living in the woods.

I have a last picture which I was going to submit, but probably wont as its a picture of poo!

If anyone wants to have a go at identifying its owner I'll add it in, but I understand if no one is interested.

[Topcat02]

Definitely sounds like a deer scrape.

Came across an extraordinary scrape site about a month and a half ago. I heard some wolves, and set out to investigate. A nice 12 point buck had been making a scrape and rub. The rub was on two balsams fairly close together at their base. The buck got his antlers between the two trees, and slipped or whatever, and ended up laying on his side with his antlers stuck between the two trees. He'd dug up quite a trench in his efforts to free himself. He'd been dead for at least a week when I found him. Very sad. Nice deer. I suppose I should have taken the antlers, but I didn't have time.

PG

Amazing, I've only ever heard/seen a Wolf in a safari park. Shame about the stag. Still, nothing goes to waste in the wild.

[pierre girard]

Amazing, I've only ever heard/seen a Wolf in a safari park. Shame about the stag. Still, nothing goes to waste in the wild.

Hmmm. Ouie. I read something somewhere on the site about wolves in a park. The post said the people could walk out among the wolves.

Shinob have a good relationship with wolves. The wolf (Ma-inga) is the friend of the Ojibwe - probably because Ma-inga was the companion of Wana-bazhoo in the creation story. Still, I'd never get close to one. They kill incredibly quick. I've seen wolves take down deer. The deer is dead so quick you can hardly believe you saw it. A friend wanted to mate his German shepherd bitch to a dog wolf and the wolf took her throat out in an almost casual manner - and so quickly - we at first didn't realize what had happened. Wolves and dogs are not the same thing. Their pack hiararchy views any outsider - even other wolves - as potential food - or at least - enemies.

PG

[RovingArcher]

Yep, looks like a deer scrape to me. I kept a sharp eye on a scrape left by a bruiser of a buck. A buck that I thought was the boss buck in the area, because I had witnessed him breeding several does in our backyard over the course of several years. A few days later, I saw the biggest coastal deer I had ever seen. Almost Mule deer sized and with a very large 4x4 rack with eye guards, which is unusual in our area, as most males are forked horn. He promptly went to town enlarging the scrape and then urinated on it. He returned 3 times to the scrape that season and repeated his ceremony. That season, he was the buck in my backyard with the females. It was my impression that the original buck was the boss buck until the larger animal showed up. There were other, smaller bucks that showed up, but they didn't add to the scrape. They would urinate off to the side and a couple of times, I witnessed sparing matches with several young males involved and none of them messed with the scrape. They'd all go over and sniff it up pretty good, licking their noses to enhance their scenting abilities and then do battle. Very interesting.