4x4

[Adrian]

Speaking of 4x4s, my old Peugeot is overdue for replacement - it's holding on well, but time's running out! What do you think of the new -shape Jeep cherokee as an offroader? I ask because there is a dealer at the bottom of my road, and my wife likes the look of them! I don't like Defenders , and I've heard too many horror stories about Discos over the years.

[JonnyP]

I have driven the new shape Cherokee on an off road course and I have to say it was superb, I was amazed at some of the climbs it did on wet mud, on road tyres too. What it is like on the road I have no idea. I would like to know what is wrong with Defenders. I have had one for 3 years and it has been great. I love them..................Jon

[elma]

I'm on my second disco now and would not be without one, thier basically a posh defender, mine has been economical to run (35mpg) the engine will run on anything from chip oil to parafine, spares are cheap and with a little tlc it will run forever and of course apart from the range rover its the best 4x4 going.

[Adrian]

I've never found the Defender to be comfortable, and friends who've had Discos have all found that the quality control was...variable. A good one was very good, but too many suffered leaks and reliability problems, to the point where one of them got through 3 new vehicles - each replaced under warranty, until he got his money back and bought a Toyota pickup with a load bed cover.

[Moff8]

I have a cherokee sport (petrol) and it has never been off road. We bought it because where my wife works it is prone to deep snow. She loves the jeep, easy to park, nice high driving position and comfortable to drive in with the usual Air con etc.. We even drove it from Glasgow to London on a single tank of petrol for a weekend at Legoland so the MPG on the motorway is not bad either. All in all we have been quite pleased with it. Our only concern was the recent increase in the servicing costs.

[Adrian]

Thanks for the input, I'll have a look at one and see how it "fits".

[Ruckus]

jeeps are awesome offroad vehicles, good clearance, gear ratios are nicely placed and yeah you can get almost anywhere with them.

only bad thing is the terrible reputation they have for breaking down a lot, parts are not very cheap either and i'd assume more expensive in the UK. I had a cherokee for a while and i hated it, one problem after the other.

i'd suggest a pick-up like a Tacoma.

[Cairodel]

We road-tested one for for a week for the BCA Magazine here. After a day or two, it got pretty comfortable on-road, just don't try to take any bends at any kind of speed. Yes, they have good clearance, but at the expense of a very high centre of gravity, and one British mag. managed to roll one on an on-road test .
In the desert, I called the Daimler-Chrysler MD a couple of times because of all the warning lights I was getting on the dash. Was told not to worry, as it would only be dust on some of the electronic sensors . My opinion is that this could be very worrying for anyone taking them off-road.
Sorry, but I'll stick with my Series3 and Defender110

[Adrian]

Thanks lads, I'll also try a Landcruiser. Ruckus, thanks for the reliability shout - unfortunately a pickup isn't too practical for me, as the 4x4 will also be my main car - the other one is a bike! Cairodel, also thanks - bear in mind though that various British magazines and televison programmes have managed to roll just about every mass - market 4x4 including Range Rovers, and I think Discos as well.

[British Red]

Thanks lads, I'll also try a Landcruiser. Ruckus, thanks for the reliability shout - unfortunately a pickup isn't too practical for me, as the 4x4 will also be my main car - the other one is a bike! Cairodel, also thanks - bear in mind though that various British magazines and televison programmes have managed to roll just about every mass - market 4x4 including Range Rovers, and I think Discos as well.

Adrian,

If you ever get down Hampshire way, you are welcome to try mine on / off road. You try in against the Defender if you want

Red

[Adrian]

Thanks Red, appreciate the offer

[MikeS]

Hi Adrian

I have no experience of the Jeep Cherokee or the new Landcruiser. However, both have independent front suspension which will limit both vehicles in rutted ground (I run an L200 pickup and experience this problem). The lower spec Landcruiser does have a rear locking diff which will help, I personally don't love traction control .(You can't beat the old fashioned ways). If you are looking for a vehicle for heavily rutted ground then it may be worth looking at the Nissan Patrol which still had a live front axle as per the Defender and Series I & II Discos .

However, to be honest if you exclude heavy ruts its all down to tyres and how you drive. As a very active member of GLASS (Green Lane Association) I have seen people cross the muddiest fields in the oddest vehicles (most unusual is a 2CV).

Hope that helps.

Let us know what you decide.

Mike

Best of luck

[redflex]

I recall being told somewhere that the 2CV was designed and built for farmers?

Seen them off road few times great cars

[Buckshot]

I heard one of the design specs for the 2cv was it had to drive accross a ploughed field with a tray of eggs on the passenger seat without breaking any !

Don't know how true that is though.

[EdS]

that is true

and there is company that mods them to 4 whell drive.

i'll see if I ca nfind the link

[Adrian]

Thanks Mike, I've looked at the Patrol, but the long version is way too big for me, and Nissan have stopped importing the short version - they never imported many to start with, so I'm looking at something competent but reasonably compact. I agree that the tyres and the ability of the driver are generally more important and I've also seen 2CVs go places that Land Rover drivers wouldn't chance! I've never heard of a 4wd conversion for one though!

[JonnyP]

Thanks Mike, I've looked at the Patrol, but the long version is way too big for me, and Nissan have stopped importing the short version - they never imported many to start with, so I'm looking at something competent but reasonably compact. I agree that the tyres and the ability of the driver are generally more important and I've also seen 2CVs go places that Land Rover drivers wouldn't chance! I've never heard of a 4wd conversion for one though!

If a 2cv could get there, then my Landy would get there too, even if I had to push it.............Jon

[havingagiraffe]

I've also seen 2CVs go places that Land Rover drivers wouldn't chance! I've never heard of a 4wd conversion for one though!

Back in the day, Citroen built a version of the 2CV with an extra engine and gerabox in the boot to give it four wheel drive. Distinguishing features of the 2CV Sahara 4wd are a ribbed bonnet with externally mounted spare and a vented bootlid.

The British military used to airlift lightweight 2CV pick ups before they had helicopters large enough to lift an underslung Land Rover.

A 2CV enthusiast told me that Michelin funded the design of the 2CV as they believed they'd sell more tyres if Citroen sold thousands of utilitarian 2CVs to peasants rather than hundreds of decadent Traction Avants to the wealthy few.

The 2CV's an absolute design classic. Unfortunately, I'm barred from owning one because I don't own a floppy straw hat, don't have a beard, am not a vegetarian, and don't wear socks with my sandals.

[Klenchblaize]

I'm on my second disco now and would not be without one, thier basically a posh defender, mine has been economical to run (35mpg) the engine will run on anything from chip oil to parafine, spares are cheap and with a little tlc it will run forever and of course apart from the range rover its the best 4x4 going.

Sorry, but to view what a real "posh Defender" looks like take a look in the "gallery" under "Kit"!

Cheers

K

[AJB]

I heard one of the design specs for the 2cv was it had to drive accross a ploughed field with a tray of eggs on the passenger seat without breaking any !

Don't know how true that is though.

Yea, I believe the design brief was…

“carry a family of four in comfort and drive across a ploughed field with a tray of eggs on the passenger seat and a pig in the back”

As to the comment about “it’s not what you drive it’s how you drive it”, when I worked for the MoD, I watched an off road driving instructor, at Chertsey, shouting at a squady who said it was impossible to get the light weight Landy up a gravel hill, prove his point by taking our Volvo estate hire car up it!

Amazing to see

AJB

[BorderReiver]

http://www.2cv4x4.com/

[havingagiraffe]

http://www.2cv4x4.com/

Wow. Fantastic bit of kit.

Cost more than my Td5 pick up though!

If speed kills, 2CV drivers must be immortal.

[BorderReiver]

If speed kills, 2CV drivers must be immortal.

The "Sidewinder" variant of the 2CV will do over 100mph,or so I'm told.

Don't know if they're still built though.

[Cairodel]

However, to be honest if you exclude heavy ruts its all down to tyres and how you drive. As a very active member of GLASS (Green Lane Association) I have seen people cross the muddiest fields in the oddest vehicles (most unusual is a 2CV).

Refering to my previous post, the Cherokee was rolled on tarmac - NOT off-road....
And this is what we used to foray into the desert with - you can probably understand how pleased I am with the Landies....

[Beer Monster]

Yea, I believe the design brief was…

“carry a family of four in comfort and drive across a ploughed field with a tray of eggs on the passenger seat and a pig in the back”

If memory serves me right there were a number of 2CV expeditions across the Atlas Mountains and the Sahara desert!!!

........... I'll see if I can find the links ...........

Ahhh here you go "Dubbed the Plymouth-Dakar Challenge, it is a bohemian version of the Paris-Dakar road rally" Link

and here and here. Seems it's been done a few times ......

[Adrian]

Hi Cairodel - I know it was rolled on road - so were the other vehicles I mentioned. It was part of an "illustration" of the "dangers" of using 4 wd vehicles in an urban, rather than off road, environment, especially given their increasing popularity (allegedly) as school-run vehicles.

[monkey_pork]

[...]
Ahhh here you go "Dubbed the Plymouth-Dakar Challenge, it is a bohemian version of the Paris-Dakar road rally"

Ha ha, starting from Plymouth and having scrappy vehicles take part makes a lot of sense (with aplologies if it's a bit local, hmm, or if you live in Plymouth and drive something that's alright - but in that case it'll makes sense anyway) ...

Err, I'll get me coat.

[Nathan Sturgess]

I am going to have to stick up for Landies. I don't think that my dad has ever gone a year without owning at least 1 landie. They are brilliant offroad and will spank a cherokee any day of the week, if you don't like the look of Defenders then why not the Discovery. Landies are reliable in this day and age. I do perfer the Defender a lot more though.

[British Red]

Nathan,

IMHO they are great car so long as you don't want a reliable car! Fantastic off road (and yes, we have one standing in the drive right now), but the gamekeeper here wouldn't take one as a gift - he's all japanese trucks now - as are a heck of a lot of guys who use em for a living. We also have a Land Cruiser and I'll part with the 110 long before the LC

YMMV

Red

[Nathan Sturgess]

Well my dad has owned other off-roaders and then ended up buying another Defender as they just wouldn't go where he wanted them to. I am going to be a bit biassed as I think that the sun shines out of there rear but I'll be honest when I say that my dad or his mates have never had a Defender brake down on them, Discos yes but not Defenders, it is all a matter of preferance though. There is of course the Unimog, that is the only thing I'd consider for off-road travel other than a 110