Starting shoot

[Spunyarn]

I've never hunted game or quarry before, but I'm not a bad shot. Been shooting for the past decade but never at live targets (Unless you count Afghanistan, but that's a different sort of game lol).

I'm not a member of a farming community, and don't live really out in the sticks. My old man's got two air rifles, one pretty old and one about 20 years old. One has a sight attached to it but I'd prefer to shoot with iron sights if possible. I believe they are both same calibre (presumably .22), but will find out what rifles and calibre they are later if it's relevant.

I have quite a few questions so hopefully you fellas can fill me in;
What type of pellets should I use?
Is a .22 air rifle substantial enough to kill a rabbit and at what distance?
As a beginner I won't achieve a kill with every shot. What do I do, if an injured rabbit escapes before I've killed it?
Will a farmer mind somebody with no experience of shooting quarry, doing it on his land?
Do I litterally knock a farmers door, and ask him if he minds a novice shooting on his land now and again?
When I've finished shooting for the night, what should I do with the rabbits, will the farmer accept them all?

The reason I ask, is because I have no problem with gutting and skinning them, but once that's done I'm not going to want many for the freezer, and if the farmer only wants one, then what do I do with the rest?

Any advice is really welcome guys. Cheers

[Ogri the trog]

Please allow my a somewhat mess reply;

I have quite a few questions so hopefully you fellas can fill me in;
What type of pellets should I use? - whatever pellets shoot most consistently from the rifle you choose!

Is a .22 air rifle substantial enough to kill a rabbit and at what distance? -Yes - the actual range is that which you can consistently hit a coin sized target (the preys brain being about that size).

As a beginner I won't achieve a kill with every shot. What do I do, if an injured rabbit escapes before I've killed it? - Learn from it!

Will a farmer mind somebody with no experience of shooting quarry, doing it on his land? Probably not, but if you don't try you won't get anywhere - you do have experience from the forces and you may have to find someone who will escort you for a while!

Do I litterally knock a farmers door, and ask him if he minds a novice shooting on his land now and again? Yes, but maybe not use the word "Novice" too often!

When I've finished shooting for the night, what should I do with the rabbits, will the farmer accept them all? - Find a use for any that you do shoot - if not the farmer, then a local butcher or kennels!

The reason I ask, is because I have no problem with gutting and skinning them, but once that's done I'm not going to want many for the freezer, and if the farmer only wants one, then what do I do with the rest? - Sometimes, clearing pests is reason enough to shoot, but often folk will be more accepting of the shooting if the prey is being respected and put to use.

Good luck with it.

Ogri the trog

[Adze]

Where to start?

First: join the BASC. That gives you liability insurance which the vast majority of land owners will require and you're mad not to have.

The next bit is difficult to word without it sounding patronising, apologies in advance if it seems so, it's not intentional. Even as a beginner you should intend to achieve a kill with every shot. You're right that it isn't possible to guarantee a kill rate of 100%, however, if you're not getting very close to 100% such that a wounding is a very rare event then you should stop shooting live quarry and practice shot placement and range finding until you can.

Pellet choice is a personal thing and what shoots well through my rifle with me shooting, might not work for you. Try a range of pellets in your own gun and choose the ones which perform best for you. Very light or very heavy pellets have their own set of problems regarding trajectory and how much energy they impart to the target - a middleweight (14 to 16 grain) diabolo waisted pellet is a good place to start, Webley Accupells shoot well through my HW35. Heavy pellets at sub 12lbft muzzle energies will have a trajectory like a rainbow at range (great for ratting at 15 yards though!) and lightweight wadcutter target pellets, while they might have a trajectory that's flatter than a Belgian bowling green, will get blown off course by quite mild breezes.

Effective ranges depends on the shooter, not just the gun. Personally I keep 30 yards as my absolute maximum and I prefer to get closer than 30 if possible. I've read posts on airgun forums by people with FAC power .177's and laser range finding gear who kill consistently at 50 yards - but this is extreme, takes a huge amount of practice and is definitely not the usual way of things.

When it comes to permissions, you're going to need patience. You're likely to get a lot more 'No!' answers than 'Yes!". Do get your permission in writing if at all possible - saves a lot of aggravation explaining to your local constabulary if a well meaning passer by calls them about the man in the field with a gun. Likewise carry proof of insurance while shooting.

Excess quarry - I'd wait until you have too many before you decide on what to do with them, Mrs Beeton knew a thing or two more than just recipes

[Spunyarn]

Don't worry about being patronising. Alot of forums have a tendancy to be quite savage with new members, but this is one of the most friendly I've come across. I'm a beginner and I'm not embarrassed about it, I appreciate you taking the time to reply.

It was probably a silly question tbf, because it stands to reason, that if I'm causing an animal suffering on more than a very occasional basis, then I need more practice first.

Haha was probably a bit presumpteous to be asking about what to do when I've got too many. I'll see how hard it is to get one first! lol

People who say they wouldn't be willing to gut and prep an animal for eating anoy me a bit, because it's just a lack of balls I think. I don't relish the thought of it, and presumably it's not the bit that any hunter enjoys doing? but it's a nessecary evil, and any bit of chicken or steak that I tuck into of an evening has sure has hell been through the same process. I think it's something that most people who aren't around this from childhood are afraid of, and I reckon it should be something everyone who eats meat, is willing do.

Anyway, just been reading up about rabbiting, I'd be on my own (unless a friend who hunts could show me the ropes), or have my girlfriend with me (who grew up on a farm), but if you don't know the ground, how do you find a rabbit warren in the first place? Any tips?

[peaks]

Hi,
Have a look at the John Darling vids on You tube - a bit dated but good sound advice. His book is really good too see links below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpMUdenNQgg

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Air-Rifle-Hu.../dp/1852230630

Take plenty of walks and keep your eyes open, use binoculars, spend more time watching than shooting - that way you'll get to see where the animals and birds are, their habits, times and routines. Remember rabbits are just one of the airgun quarries.

Try joining an airgun club - directory below
http://www.airgunforum.co.uk/forums/...directory.html

[Adze]

but if you don't know the ground, how do you find a rabbit warren in the first place? Any tips?

Just go for a quiet walk. Leave the gun at home and it's often surprising how much more you see. Do you have a dog? Most terriers are better at finding rabbits than most people will ever be.

[Spunyarn]

Cheers guys, based on what has been mentioned about not properly killing bunnys, I'm going to make sure I've practised, and am well zeroed before having a go. I dug out the rifles tonight, and one is the type where you break the barrel, the older type has a lever underneath the barrel, and you load it via a little swivel-breach on the top of the barrel, that you twist to open and close.

I prefer handling the older one with the lever, and it seems quieter too? Less powerful perhaps?
But the other one has the sight/ scope thing fitted to it, which I think would make life much easier, if a little less traditional. I think I'll use it when starting out anyways, for the rabbits' sake.

I'm going to ask about a bit this week, and see if a Farmer will let me pop some rabbits off over the weekend.
Once I've found a suitable place and have the permissions, then I'll spend a few hours one afternoon wandering around getting accustomed to the area before lying in wait.

What time of day is best? I guess dawn and dusk are the pretty standard times to find them scurrying around?

Do the normal laws regarding shooting air rifles (Have landowner's permission, 50 ft from public highways etc.) apply on national park farmland, or is that special?
Cheers for all the info so far guys it's fantastic.

[British Red]

Whereabouts in the UK are you? There may be some local members willing to take you for a range day or a bimble round

As for the guns - take them to a gun shop or club with a chrono(graph) - they will check the power is both legal and enough for hunting

[Spunyarn]

I'm in Hereford. Theres a couple of gun shops around here, so will look into that. I've been reading the code of practice on the BASC website, and I gather from that, that the rifles will need to fire between 11 ft lbs and 12 ft lbs to be legal to kill whilst remaining outside of needing a firmarms cert.

[British Red]

Under 12 ft lbs is the rule. Old guns springs can weaken - if they drop below about 9, swap the spring out for a new one (easy to do).

I'm on the wrong side of the country for you - hopefully someone close can help. Have a chat with Wingstoo about good gun shops in your area - he hunts with an air rifle nearby

[treelore]

All the advice given spunyard is all spot on,

The only thing I would really add is practice, practice,practice…. Shoot at different range from 15yard up to 30/40 yards in differentshooting positions, from prone, standing to the Hawkins. Basically all theshooting position you would have been soon in the army. When you can hit the targetevery time in the kill zone, you’re ready for live quarry. Like other have saidfind a pellet the suits your rifle and give you good grouping. By the sounds ofit one of the rifles could be a BSA Superstar (rotating breech) I have thisrifle and it has served me well for 22 years and is still going strong. Bislayfield and Accupell pellets work well with mine so it may be worth trying those.
As for dispatching wounded rabbits I find the 2 best waysare either to us a “priest” a small wooden or metal truncheon to give the coupde tar, the other option is a Sharpe blow to the back of the head with yourhand ( karate chop )…. Hold the rabbit firmly by the back legs and wait till itrelaxes then in one fluid motion dispatch the rabbit. When you’ve shot a fewrabbits you can practice on the carcasses. As for shooting too many…only shootwhat you will use or get rid of easily.
The BASC are a fantastic organisation but pricey, I wouldalso look at joining NOBS as BASC membership is about £63 a year compared toNOBS a £20 and you get mostly the same benefits. Having insurance helps getground to shoot. Try local farms, keepers and people with large gardens for permissionto shoot. Like Red said earlier get the rifle checked out on a chronograph forthe power output, it may also be worth giving the rifles a good service andclean, as you know any fouling in the barrel can affect the accuracy of therifle.
Good luck and good hunting

[treelore]

Oww and last and very important know the law when it comesto air rifles

Good luck

[Spunyarn]

I had a good look at both rifles this afternoon, one is a Relum Tornado, and the other an Original mod 35 Super

I've googled them both and the Relum seems like it's a pretty basic old school rifle. The lever under the barrel is better I think, but most people seem to prefer break-barrel types. The Original mod 35 seems okay. I read that people think they're a pain in the ass to work on and are quite intricate. The relum had quite a bit of surface rust on, most of which rubbed off with scotch brite and oil, the Original belonged to my brother and I'm pretty sure he got it new in about 1995 and hasn't been used much so is in good nick. I also dislike the fact that I can't de-cock the Orginal, but the Relum decocks fine.

There's a local gun shop, which is pretty small, but if I take the rifles in there, how long will it take to fire them over chrono and renew springs if necessary? Is it something I have to book, or a 20 minute job I can watch them do? I don't have a gun slip, so I'll have to tape it up with black bags.

If all goes well, I might look at getting a slip, some decent binos, and some better ammo. I think the pellets I used last time I fired (about 6 years ago), were made by wasp?

[British Red]

Wasp are made by Eley - they are an okay pellet - not great, but a working tool.

Best to give the gun shop a call first - some don't work on air rifles. Others do but prefer you to leave them with them for a week or so.

[treelore]

Yeah Wasp is a good make, but I’ve not seen them for yearsthough. At the gun shop they should be able to do all the work pritty quick,but it depends on the work load of the gunsmith, a note on the gun slip I wouldjust buy a cheap one for now. do you have a monocular in your army kit ? Saveyou buying bino’s if you’ve got them. If you are going to keep the air riflesyou can also ask the gunsmith about a price for re-blueing. Another good tip is to gut your rabbits asapas it makes it easier to process and if you’re shooting a few when you go out don’tstake the rabbits on top of each other, spread them about to cool down. Ow andwhen it comes to permission to shoot, offer to shoot other vermin for thefarmers and keepers too. Controlling corvids and tree rats goes down well, I’vejust had a call from a farmer mate that another friend of his is havingproblems with tree rats, so tomorrow I’ll be out tree rat bashing with theterrier J……all about giving a hand on the farm and thing come good J

All the best

[santaman2000]

...Ow andwhen it comes to permission to shoot, offer to shoot other vermin for thefarmers and keepers too. Controlling corvids and tree rats goes down well...

Plus if you get rabbits and squirrels both (it takes about 4 each) you've got the makings for a Brunswick stew!!!!

[santaman2000]

All the advice given spunyard is all spot on,

The only thing I would really add is practice, practice,practice…. Shoot at different range from 15yard up to 30/40 yards in differentshooting positions, from prone, standing to the Hawkins. Basically all theshooting position you would have been soon in the army...

That's a new one on me. I did 21 years in the Air Force and another 13 as a cop/corrections officer and have been a life member of the NRA for almost 30 years. What's the "Hawkins?"

[British Red]

That's a new one on me. I did 21 years in the Air Force and another 13 as a cop/corrections officer and have been a life member of the NRA for almost 30 years. What's the "Hawkins?"

Uphill prone unsuported position - weak hand grabs the forward sling swivel, butt rests on the ground.

Edit to add a picture

[santaman2000]

Thanks Red. I take it someone named Hawkins developped it?

[British Red]

I guess so - its a rock solid position, but you can't get much elevation on the barrel. You have to hold on to the sling like crazy as the butt is resting on the ground clamped under your armpit. You do get very, very low though - far lower than in a normal prone. Handy in a rifle pit if you had them.The other tricky part is that the butt is further back than normal making the bolt hard to manipulate and giving that fellah a fair chance of a black eye from the scope

[British Red]

Oh - I'm thinking treelore either spent some time playing silly b***ers at Woodbury Common or was in the RGJ?

[santaman2000]

I guess so - its a rock solid position, but you can't get much elevation on the barrel. You have to hold on to the sling like crazy as the butt is resting on the ground clamped under your armpit. You do get very, very low though - far lower than in a normal prone. Handy in a rifle pit if you had them...

Looks like a good position but from a firing pit I think most of us would use an overhand barricade postion.

[British Red]

All sorts of ways of doing it I think the Hawkins was originally intended for ditches and roof shooting from what I have read. Ive never quite understood digging a rifle pit without a lowered shooting platform....but thats just me

I fear we have strayed from the thread on finding a guy his first airgun shoot though - I doubt he will need any of these positions, or be shooting from a pit !

My fault - as always!

[mark oriel]

For really effective bunny in the pot hunting don't forget lamping. Air riffle hunting is in my opinion the best. As for permission a good tip is to write out a permission form and ask the farmer to sign it, job done rather than waiting and having to ask again. Good luck.

[Spunyarn]

Don't worry about going off topic for my sake fellas. I've never heard of the hawkins position either so it's another good bit of knowledge picked up from this site.

Am going to try and get the rifles into a shop tomorrow, and see how it pans out. If they are good to go, then I'll be taking a wander round the cud on Sat and Sun exploring verges, and trying to work out where exactly rabbits choose to inhabit. I might knock on a few doors, or make a few calls to farmers and see if I can get me some permission to shoot.

Was speaking to a military mate yesterday and to my surprise he shoots a fair bit in his spare time, but he's got a few different guns, shotgun, .177 rimfire and 223. Very smart weapons and shoots clay pigeon and dabbles in hunting from now and again. Made me laugh when he showed me his Firebird targets at 19 quid for 20! Costs him a fortune, and one of his rifles alone was about £800, not to mention firearms licences, and gun cabinets etc. Made me laugh to think that with a 60 quid air rifle, and the landowners permission I can do more or less the same apart from hitting foxes.

[santaman2000]

...Was speaking to a military mate yesterday and to my surprise he shoots a fair bit in his spare time, but he's got a few different guns, shotgun, .177 rimfire and 223...

177 rimfire? Are you sure you don't mean 17 HMR? (Hornady Rimfire Magnum)

[Spunyarn]

Yeh you may well be right. I know bugger all when it comes to calibres of guns. Only ones I know are 9mm, 5.56, 7.62 and .50 cal

[santaman2000]

Yeh you may well be right. I know bugger all when it comes to calibres of guns. Only ones I know are 9mm, 5.56, 7.62 and .50 cal

Which 7.62? .308? 30-06? 7.62X39 (for the AK47)?

Which 9mm? 9X19 Parabellum (also known as 9mm Luger, and 9mm NATO)? 9X 18 Makorav? 9x17 (also known as .380, 9mm short, 9mm kurtz, and 9mm kortz)?

Which 50 cal? 50 Barret? 50 BMG? 50 Hawkins? 50 Sharps? And loads more.

LOL. Just kidding. I know where you're coming from. It's an aweful lot to figure out if you don't have a real love for guns. Good luck with your hunting.

[British Red]

Which 7.62? .308? 30-06? 7.62X39 (for the AK47)?

Think you missed 7.62x54 there

[santaman2000]

Think you missed 7.62x54 there

LOL. And probably more.