Silica sachet advice....

[Hammock Hamster]

Hi Guys,

Following my recent experiments with dehydrating i am finding some of my dried foods are "sweating" for lack of a better term in their sealed jars and am wondering if this is down to the humidity of any air trapped in the jars.

I am wondering if it is safe to put a silica sachet in with foodstuffs, all my online research seems to suggest it is inert and not toxic however i though i would see if anyone here has had any personal experience with this.

Cheers, Hamster

[santaman2000]

I don't know why your dried foods are sweating; but I think rather than a silica gel, I'd put rice in the jar.

[Ogri the trog]

Hi Guys,

Following my recent experiments with dehydrating i am finding some of my dried foods are "sweating" for lack of a better term in their sealed jars and am wondering if this is down to the humidity of any air trapped in the jars.

I am wondering if it is safe to put a silica sachet in with foodstuffs, all my online research seems to suggest it is inert and not toxic however i though i would see if anyone here has had any personal experience with this.

Cheers, Hamster

Could it be that your dehydrated items are not as dry as you think they might be?

Or it needs further experimentation to achieve a dried product that does not "sweat"! It sounds to me like some "inner" moisture is rising to the surface!

ATB

Ogri the trog

[Toddy]

I'd have another drying of the foods, and a thorough clean and dry of the jars, before trying the moisture attractant sachets.

Like Pete said, if it's oozing liquid it's not dry right through. That leads to degradation of the food, and potentially moulds and the like.

What foods are wet in the jars anyway ? Some can be quickly heated in the micro and stirred until they're cool to release moisture very effectively. Short bursts.

The other thing to check is that your jars really are sealed. If not the dry food acts like the silica pellets and will absorb moisture.

cheers,
Toddy

[Dave Budd]

silica is safe, but you'll want to put it in some cloth bags or buy sachets. Most of the biscuit tins I had growig up had a small tin in the lid that held silica to keep the biccies firmer for longer Rice also works fine and is normally easier to find around the house (except for me, I've 20kg of silica and no rice here!)

But that aside, like has been said, if the food is properly dry then it won't sweat. Apart from being 100% sure that your food is dry you could also warm the containers before potting, that will help too.

[Toddy]

See the rice thing ? Is that actually safe ?
We are advised *not* to use cooked rice more than a day old since it can grow unseen but toxic bacteria..........
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=coo...G9G08QPPv6y2DQ

and since the buggits are frequently present on uncooked rice............
" B. cereus is frequently present in uncooked rice, and heat-resistant spores may survive cooking."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_cereus

No offence intended santaman2000, but I'd just be a bit wary of raw rice near damp food. Especially food intended for camping. A dose of the trots is bad enough at home, but off the beaten track is beyond not funny

cheers,
Toddy

[John Fenna]

I never seal my dehydrated foods .. meat goes in paper bags, fruit in an old icecream tub with a loose lid .. all kept in a cool dark room (our pantry/utility room) never had a problem yet

[Hammock Hamster]

Hi all,

Thanks for the replies, i have had another look at the food in the jars (jerky) and can confirm they are fully dried however when blotting some of the sweaty meat the moisture appears to be oily.
I am guessing that this is fat as although the mean was fairly lean it did have a few small areas of marbleing in it.
Being fairly new to all this can fat be full dehydrated out or do i need to look into a leaner meat to prevent this? I wonder as when i have bought biltong in the past it usually has big lumps of fat on it and will last quite happily for weeks in just a paper bag.

Cheers, Hamster

[Toddy]

I wondered about that too.............pemmican, big smoked sausages and the like are fatty. Fat lasts well, indeed you can seal cooked meat in a jar with fat and it won't go off and it's fit to eat months later.

British Red might know ? Hugh's kind of really into this type of interest.
If he doesn't see the thread, someone pm him and ask if he'll have a looksee ?
The other prepping folks might know, too ?

cheers,
M

[tartanferret]

Are these used for a similar purpose??

http://www.agmcontainer.com/desiccan...FUdlfAody2PWOw

For sale on Ebay...http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/20-100-cc-...ht_4721wt_1037

I've found them in packets of jerky and various dehydrated chinese foodstuffs, meat and fish

[santaman2000]

See the rice thing ? Is that actually safe ?
We are advised *not* to use cooked rice more than a day old since it can grow unseen but toxic bacteria..........
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=coo...G9G08QPPv6y2DQ

and since the buggits are frequently present on uncooked rice............
" B. cereus is frequently present in uncooked rice, and heat-resistant spores may survive cooking."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bacillus_cereus

No offence intended santaman2000, but I'd just be a bit wary of raw rice near damp food. Especially food intended for camping. A dose of the trots is bad enough at home, but off the beaten track is beyond not funny

cheers,
Toddy

I've never seen any problems arise with raw rice; I've never even heard of anyone using cooked rice this way and don't imagine cooked rice would have any absorbancy left anyway. I must confess the most common use is mixed into the salt shaker to keep the humidity from clumping the salt and salt isn't exactly prone to spoilage anyway but I've never noticed any bugs in even an open salt shaker, even here if bug filled Florida. Wish I could say the same about the dogs but I'm picking of a few dozen ticks from the every day and I only have 2 small dogs.

[Toddy]

Sorry santaman2000, I should have been clearer

I know cooked rice can be a problem as the bacteria multiply, but the source of the bacteria is already present in the uncooked rice.

I think the use of dried rice in the salt shaker is a good idea, and I expect that the salt itself at that concentration would surely kill off the bacteria.

Ticks are a menace you have my sympathy. All I'm suffering just now is midgies; we've had torrential rain for days and it's due to last another week or so, and it's muggy because it's summer .......well, it's supposed to be the wee biting horrors are out at every dry spell.

atb,
M

[British Red]

Right fat or meat shouldn't make a difference. Think about "pork scratchings" - ever find an oily one? Dry is dry.

JF is right for me - no point in sealing up jerky in a jar - its absense of moisture is the preservative - air circulation will generally help.

You didn't put the jerky in the jar straight from dehydrator did you? If so, thats the problem, cool it overnight in the fridge first.

Otherwise it can only be the moisture was still in the meat. For long term preservation, it should be very, very hard. Hard enough to file to a point and stab something with - literally! Remember how much moisture there is in green wood - wood goes mouldy if drying in an area with poor air circulation. So it has to be drier (harder) than a piece of wood.

Short story long, its either not dry enough, or being packaged warm.

Removing all visible fat will certainly help.

Keep the very dry meat in a cloth or paper bag.....

Red

[Toddy]

Thank you

This air circulation thing though........if I do this with my dried fruits, they just go rubbery. Dried apples are like crisps when I've finished drying them, but left out or in a paper bag and they're like chewing rubber within a couple of days. That's why I jar them. Fruit leathers actually go sticky if left out of the jars.

Or do I really just live in a sodden wet bit of the world ?

cheers,
M

[British Red]

No doubt about it, fruit will absorb atmoshperic moisture. I use a cheapo vacuum sealer for them. Meat seems to like air circulation though - think about a flitch of bacon in the rafters or Italian Salami or Parm ham - lasted for years. Now those meats had more salt to increase the preservation. Without that - dry as dry can be

[Hammock Hamster]

Right fat or meat shouldn't make a difference. Think about "pork scratchings" - ever find an oily one? Dry is dry.

JF is right for me - no point in sealing up jerky in a jar - its absense of moisture is the preservative - air circulation will generally help.

You didn't put the jerky in the jar straight from dehydrator did you? If so, thats the problem, cool it overnight in the fridge first.

Otherwise it can only be the moisture was still in the meat. For long term preservation, it should be very, very hard. Hard enough to file to a point and stab something with - literally! Remember how much moisture there is in green wood - wood goes mouldy if drying in an area with poor air circulation. So it has to be drier (harder) than a piece of wood.

Short story long, its either not dry enough, or being packaged warm.

Removing all visible fat will certainly help.

Keep the very dry meat in a cloth or paper bag.....

Red

Cheers Red,

By process of elimination i know its not being packed warm so can only assume its not dry enough.

It certainly resembles dried wood, possibly bark or baked leather and appears dry even when snapped in half but i guess that doesnt necessarily mean anything.
I think i will give the latest batch another 6 hours in the dehydrator (bringing the total up to 18 hours) and see how it gets on.

Cheers, Hamster