Physical conditioning with heavy backpack

[John Fenna]

That sounds like a great trip!
30+ years ago I walked from Lands End to Co Durham and averaged about 45lb on my back in a cheapo frame pack and covered an average of a little over 20m per day (shortest 6m, longest 30m). Naturally I was resupplying every few days but in those days everything was heavy (tinned food, heavy gear etc) - I was headed for JoG but had a fall (when not wearing the pack) and badly damaged my right knee so was forced to give up.
I hope you have a great time I loved all my various long walks
The PW crosses some great terrain

[lub0]

Thanks for all the advice guys! I'm already strong and fit being able to do 10 strict pullups, 10 dips, sprints, long jogs, just never really trained with a heavy pack but I have no doubts I'll quickly adapt to this.
Today (the morning after) all pains have vanished, in fact the only pain I did have from my 9 mile 28kg walk yesterday was a mildy sore left ankle, which stopped being sore half way through the walk. Pretty good going for my first long-distance heavy pack walk, no?
Really the only lasting effect this morning is a good tired feeling in the leg muscles and the small blister on the right foot both of which will dissapear in a couple of days time at which point I will attempt a 12 miler, maybe a 15, with my 28kg ALICE.

I was reading about the karimmor sabres last night and quickly came across a lot of negative comments on them, mainly pointing out how they are mediocre packs, however I tried hard to find anything negative about the berghaus vulcan, so I'm probably going to go with the vulcan if I can somehow bring myself to part with the small fortune.

As requested here's my kit list in it's current incarnation. It's by no means complete and I'm sure I can shave off a kg or two with the help of you guys?

[Tiley]

As has been discussed, the best way to build for this is through the kind of programme you've embarked on but you would also do yourself a favour by training up your core stability muscles. They help you more than you might realise and do so even more so when you are carrying a pack. Good luck with it: I did it a few years ago and enjoyed it - obviously some sections more than others - but I reckon I was carrying rather less than you...

[lub0]

Already on it! I do a lot of core excercise. I'm a great fan of bodyweight workouts, like what gymnasts do. Anyone know where to get a berghaus vulcan or atlas size 3 cheap or second hand? Everywhere is selling for £150+!!
Very eager to find out how much comfortable the 28kg load will feel in another pack!

[Satyr]

I would double check your footwear as your feet will swell on long walks plus a heavy load. I walked for 6 hours on a flat tarmak trail in the states wearing Merrell Chameleon Wraps and no load; half of my big toe nail on my right foot turned black and died because they are a snug fit.


Back home I regularly do 20+ mile walks mixed road and hills with 10kg training loads without this happening as I wear leather walking boots half a size too big (brasha ultralight)

[Satyr]

I would double check your footwear as your feet will swell on long walks plus a heavy load. I walked for 6 hours on a flat tarmak trail in the states wearing Merrell Chameleon Wraps and no load; half of my big toe nail on my right foot turned black and died because they are a snug fit.


Back home I regularly do 20+ mile walks mixed road and hills with 10kg training loads without this happening as I wear leather walking boots half a size too big (brasha ultralight)

Good luck with the trip! I am trying to persuade my boss into letting me take a sabbatical to do the Appalacian trail.... its not going well...

[jackcbr]

best of luck mate. I think you're a better man than I for giving it a crack. Not sure what your water carrying is, but I found using a filtration system meant that when I did extended walks, I could carry smaller amounts but top up as I go. I've got myself down to a filter system that holds 600ml and weighs about 1kg and a litre bottle store. That dropped a few kgs from what i use to take. Also, what I believe most people have over looked is your pack will get lighter every day as nearly half your load is food. Thing is to condition yourself to the pack. No matter how fit you are, something your body is not use to will take time to get comfortable with. For example, a friend of mine is a builder and he can dig for England all day long, shifting tonnes a day. But more than an hour on a bike and he's done for. I would say start lighter and build up.

[Kernowek Scouser]

I am a great believer in going with what works for you.

I do a lot of walking and in my experience, when you are having a play with what you carry, the best thing to do is to strap your pack on your back, pop out for a wander and see how you go. If it works, stick with it and tweak if and when further inspiration hits. If it doesn't, try something else.

I'm a shortie shoulder hauler and the hip/shoulder weight distribution designed into bigger packs, just does not work for me. I am most comfortable carrying the bulk of my pack weight on my shoulders and upper back, as is the case with an ALICE style bag, with sleep gear attached underneath level with my hips. Lots of people have told me that, this mode of carry is wrong, but it works for me and I am not troubled with back problems, so I'm sticking with it (indeed I'm just starting a pack mod, that will tailor my pack more to my preferred mode of carry).

I did a 30 mile (ish) circuit around my little corner of Cornwall on Tuesday. I wasn't carrying anywhere near the weight you are intending to haul (I had no more on me than 10 pounds tops) and only had a 25L day sack strapped (high) on my back. I was only intending to do a 16 - 18 miler, but I got my walking head on and instead of just hiking There, I decided to hike Back Again too. It was a bit beyond where I thought I was at, in terms of endurance, but apart from a little stiffness yesterday, I've no aches or blisters and I'm gagging to get out do a 20 - 30 hike again. And, it was good practice for a couple of hiking adventures I hope to enjoy later in the year.

What I do when prepping for an adventure, and this might work for, might not, is forget about the weight in the first instance and focus on the distance walked. Then when I'm happy I'm covering the desired distance at a fair clip, I up the weight, gradually (once tried going straight from training with a daysack, to training with a fully laden rucksack and it was not a happy experience) until I get to the point where I am walking the distances I hope to cover each day, hauling the weight I intend to carry. It works for me.

But it sound like you have your training pretty sorted, so I hope you can endure your practice sessions and enjoy your adventure.

I hope you have a grand time.

Good Luck,

Colin

[mrcharly]

Hmm

Reduce weight of pack. You probably have far too many clothes. Get a smaller knife (I bet you have a large heavy SAK in there). etc.

do more strength training. 10 pullups etc isn't much for a young person; at 20 I thought I was strong because I was working on a farm, could do two sets of 35 pullups, 50 pushups. Then I started going to a gym and lifting proper weights; oh boy what a difference.

Dead lifts, shoulder presses and squats will all help.

If you are insistent on carrying all your food, look into taking a water purifier so you can use water from random streams. Do take a tick remover in you first aid kit. Get some witchhazel for putting on blisters to dry them out and harden them.

[NS40]

I might be getting the wrong end of the stick here but I saw you only had a couple of pairs of short socks in your gear list.

I've been lucky enough to avoid blisters for years by wearing a pair of thin cotton liner socks under a pair of thicker hiking socks. This way, the liner socks rub against the thick socks rather than the skin on your feet. Keep your feet talcumed up, have a midday stop and thoroughly air, dry, rub & talc your feet. Changing the liner sock at this point can also help, especially if it's wet/sweaty.

Carrying a heavy load is hard work...carrying a heavy load with sore blistered feet is nothing short of torture.

[TeeDee]

I've got no idea why you may think Pull ups and Push ups will assist in making you hill fit.

I think your biggest problem is without some extended foundation training your going to be givingr you knee, ankles and connective lower leg tissues an extended and surprise attack and onslaught.

But I still wish you the best in the world and admire your spirit , just try and retain some sort of comms incase you knacker yourself somewhere inhospitable.

##edit - I've had some training injuries from doing too much , too soon after a lay off , namely Anterior Compartment syndrome in both Shins - Painful and really , really hard to heal properly once you pick up a lower leg injury.

[santaman2000]

The Alice pack is a toy. The best way to use it is to soak it in kerosene and set it on fire. It will keep you warm for a minute.

We'll have to agree to disagree here. There ar efew (if any) better packs. Possibly the Marine ILBE.

[rik_uk3]

Cut for your rations right back and resupply, that could save you 8 or 9 kilo's and a lighter pack perhaps. Set of hiking poles should be a priority or if you carry on then 20 or 30 years down the line you could end up like me with patella femoral syndrome and arthritis plus a damaged spine.

[bigroomboy]

hmm 2 back to back sets of 35 full straight arm overhand pullups...... not sure about that without some serious prior training

[bigroomboy]

Woa you could have been straight in the US marines without doing any of the rest of the test with that pull up score

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_...lexed_arm_hang

[santaman2000]

hmm 2 back to back sets of 35 full straight arm overhand pullups...... not sure about that without some serious prior training

Not really sure what bearing pull ups have to hiking with a pack; completely different muscle set as far as I can tell. That said, if you can do them with the fully loaded pack on

[lannyman8]

I don't know what fitness level you are at already, But my advice is to build up slowly. If you have gone from average exercise to what you describe in one hit then you run the risk of picking up an injury sometime soon, and you won't be finishing the walk you are training for at all.....

There is a reason why the military don't hit recruits with the full length combat fitness test up to 8 miles (some units 10 miles), 25 kg, 2 hrs until a few months into training.

Take care and build up the weight slowly (the distance is less a worry), and give your body adquate time to recover between sessions. Don't just focus on bergen training, and do some serious stretching off after you complete each session otherwise your body won't get the full benefit, and you are even more likely to injure yourself...

the above is great advise and i would start at around 15-18 kg and work up with the miles and weight increasing together, that way your whole body will build up all at once.

also, your pack, its not so much of a problem with the pack hurting you, but is the pack loaded correctly, as long as it is and it has a waist and shoulder straps you should be fine, put the most of your heavy things in the middle of your pack where possible.

i swear by the army issue bergan, it does whats it supposed to, carry lots of weight and works well, and is 99% of the time bomb proof...

as for blisters use mepore (surgical ) tape when you start to get a sore spot, wack it on to the bare skin where its sore and around the area, i find it works better for me than zink oxide tape, allot less sticky too. use 2 pairs of socks, a thin sports pair (my ones are cotton) and then a thick pair, this stops the skin rubbing so much as the socks rub together instead.

for your back rub i would use a nice base layer for hot weather, i think long sleeves are better, the nylon looking type that stretch to fit, this helps stop the rubbing when you use a cotton t/shirt over the top, the same principle as the socks, but again tape up if you start to get sore.

your food, your doing allot of work and going to be needing adleast 6,000 calories per day, probably nearer 7-8 k per day so you dont lose any weight or muscle.

i did the Pembrokeshire Coastal Path a few years back, 186 miles in 5 days, i was smashing around 8-9 thousand calories a day and lost 2kg in weight, but i was doing nearly double your miles to start with.

best of luck with it, hope the above has helped, and any problems give me a PM dude.

regards.

chris.

[spikeuk76]

Hi,
Ive just read through the thread and going to add my brief advice for what its worth, I've 17 years of service in the Royal Marines and counting so have a little bit of experience on walking with a heavy load ( I consider a heavy load to be a two man lift to get the backback on your shoulders by the way).

Firstly, ditch the Alice pack. Have a look in good outdoor shops and have a look at the shoulder/waist harness configuration on the better backbacks. Why people insist on using Army surplus is beyond me. All the kit we use is supplied by the lowest bidder, not necessarily the best. Find something with padding that suits your build. Waist straps are important, it takes the weight off of your shoulders and distributes it to your hips where your skeletal system can support the weight much longer than muscles. You cant comfortably have a lot of weight on your shoulders/neck for a sustained time. It will become the only thing you think about after a few days. With that, correctly packing the bag for the best weight distribution is essential. Keep heavier items lower down and closer to the body.

Secondly, training, start small, get bigger gradually. Your body needs to be conditioned to carry weight for an extended period of time, I would get used to walking 10 miles with a 10kg daysak then up the weight but not the distance. Once your happy with that, increase the distance but drop the weight slightly again, keep doing that until your comfortable with the weight over your expected daily distance. With the training you will iron out those little niggles. To prevent blisters, tape vulnerable areas of you feet up with zinc oxide tape to stop the rubbing - this is done before you get blisters as prevention. You may find that the base of your back will rub as well, whack some tape there if needs be.

Thirdly, I dont know your experience but think mountain safety. Preparation of your route with a rough plan that you can leave with someone who knows where you are. Whilst your out training, take a map with you even if you know the area and study the map as you go and match the surrounding country side to the map. This will teach you map to ground, something that comes with experience of using a map. It also takes your mind off of the plodding along. Have a look for a book called Mountain craft and leadership. Its a bit old but has some really good stuff in.

Theres is loads more i could harp on about but its getting late and up at six for a run. Good luck and enjoy the walk.

[rik_uk3]

(snipped)

i did the Pembrokeshire Coastal Path a few years back, 186 miles in 5 days, i was smashing around 8-9 thousand calories a day and lost 2kg in weight, but i was doing nearly double your miles to start with.

best of luck with it, hope the above has helped, and any problems give me a PM dude.

regards.

chris.

You might eat 8k -9k but your body can't absorb/utilise it so it gets pooped out and thats why you lost body mass. Happens with Arctic/Antarctic folk, even eating butter (fat) the body just can't process enough to stop you loosing weight. If you'd checked I'm guessing you were pooping 'floaters' feces high in fat your body could not use.

[shaggystu]

You might eat 8k -9k but your body can't absorb/utilise it so it gets pooped out and thats why you lost body mass. Happens with Arctic/Antarctic folk, even eating butter (fat) the body just can't process enough to stop you loosing weight. If you'd checked I'm guessing you were pooping 'floaters' feces high in fat your body could not use.

any idea where the cut-off would be rik? i.e. the upper limit of the amount of calories that you can process in a day?

[John Fenna]

My training regiem when getting fit for expeds mainly involved day walks or even just quick 6 milers around the roads starting from home - there are plenty of hills around here so I usually went downhill first, leaving the killer up hill section for when the muscles had warmed a bit.
To make sure I could still get in a days work I started early. Luckily much of my work involves testing gear so for much of the time it was "two birds with one stone" time.
For off road walks I carried real gear - but started with a day load and worked up to my full exped load over time.
For road work I mainly used a sack containing a 30lb sandbag to start with and added a small milkbottle full of water each week to increase the load gradually until I was carrying a full exped load. I then tried to improve my timings around a known circuit of lanes.
I usually started training just after New Year for a July exped and averaged about 3 or four training walks per week.
I also did multiple sets of situps, pressups etc indoors, for core work.

[rik_uk3]

I'm not sure Stu, I spoke to a dietician several times about this a few years ago and Mike Stroud talked about it in a book he wrote and I don't have access to just now, maybe something like 8000 tops, individuals will have variance.

Stroud and Ranulph Fiennes on one of their trips were eating maybe 7000-8000 cals a day and still went into ketonosis and lost weight. IIRC Fiennes bulked up to 15 stone for the trip and looked awful at the end and that was eating a fat based diet. I've not really looked into this for a few years now but its worth looking into. I mentioned Faeces and its surprising what it tells you about your diet, high protien make 'sinkers' and high fat make 'floaters' amongst other things or something like that lol.

I'm no longer in Nursing so really have nobody I can really grab a coffee with and ask questions but would be very interested in more details on this subject if we have any experts here, a new thread though.

[Kernowek Scouser]

It is good to see my 'made it up as I went along' approach to training, is not that dissimilar to what other folks do - get comfortable doing the distance with a day load, then gradually up the weight to full adventure load.

Now here is a question for you.

Having built your strength up with practice, then put that strength to the test on the adventure itself, does anyone do any kind of 'warming down' walking after the event, to try and moderate going from being tired but as strong as an ox at the end of an adventure, to being rested but as weak as a kitten after a couple of days of soaking in the bath, eating heartily and generally taking it easy at home?

Or is that just me?

[mousey]

Now maybe its just me but all the talk of training to get into shape to go for a walk [albiet a very strenuous one carrying some weight] does seem a bit bizarre?

when I walked the pennine I did a little research, bought all the maps, packed a bag and headed out. Sure I may not have done things 'properly' or in the time frame I wished but I did finish it without killing myself or even becoming too shagged out to enjoy it - [I even took some days out to 'go over there' - which is the advantage of not cutting your maps up].

Don't people just keep in shape by day to day doing stuff [rather than going to the gym or HAVING to do it cause 'I'm going to such a place' etc] and eating healthily? I'm no super man and weigh less than 12 stone [always have - genetic??] and have a desk job - true in the last few years I've felt myself getting weaker but I think I could still pack a bag and get on with a couple of weeks adventure without any training for it [probably do me some good]. But I believe I could do this because I lead a fairly active life [I haven't got a telly for a start, so that frees up a tremendous amount of time] when I'm not at work I'm doing house-work, out with the kids, out with the dogs or up the allotment - I haven't got time to train and probably wouldn't want to - As I've heard somewhere before 'you've just got to keep moving'.

anyway rant over

Sorry for hi-jacking the thread

[Kernowek Scouser]

Now maybe its just me but all the talk of training to get into shape to go for a walk [albiet a very strenuous one carrying some weight] does seem a bit bizarre?

when I walked the pennine I did a little research, bought all the maps, packed a bag and headed out. Sure I may not have done things 'properly' or in the time frame I wished but I did finish it without killing myself or even becoming too shagged out to enjoy it - [I even took some days out to 'go over there' - which is the advantage of not cutting your maps up].

Don't people just keep in shape by day to day doing stuff [rather than going to the gym or HAVING to do it cause 'I'm going to such a place' etc] and eating healthily? I'm no super man and weigh less than 12 stone [always have - genetic??] and have a desk job - true in the last few years I've felt myself getting weaker but I think I could still pack a bag and get on with a couple of weeks adventure without any training for it [probably do me some good]. But I believe I could do this because I lead a fairly active life [I haven't got a telly for a start, so that frees up a tremendous amount of time] when I'm not at work I'm doing house-work, out with the kids, out with the dogs or up the allotment - I haven't got time to train and probably wouldn't want to - As I've heard somewhere before 'you've just got to keep moving'.

anyway rant over

Sorry for hi-jacking the thread

I think the short answer would be - No

A slightly longer answer would be - Some folks, for a variety of reason, do on occasion find themselves a bit out of shape and seek to address the issue, before embarking on an adventure.

For me 'Training' requires that I shift my focus from:

Walking For Fun

to

Walking For Fun With A Purpose

It works for me

[lub0]

wow so much good advice and information and so much to respond to. I've taken a lot of the stuff you guys have said on board, buying proper walking socks and replacing some of the heavier items with lighter alternatives, but I'm still determined to carry everything I need, i.e unsupported. I reckon I'm set to get my pack weight down to around 23kg which for me personally is light as a feather.

Today I'm going to got for a 12 mile hike with 25kg, however the 25kg sack of rice inside of a 860g british army bivi bag and 1kg of water that I used last time is too heavy for me at the moment, so I'm going to go to the local green grocer and pick up a 20kg sack of potato's instead, which will bring the total weight to 24kg (3kg ALICE and 1kg water), but if you add my shoes and clothes that's another 1.5kg.

As for the new backpack I'm going see if my body can adapt to the heavy ALICE before I drop the small fortune on something like a berghaus vulcan that does look ideal I must say! Besides, anything under 25kg in the ALICE I find is very managable so I don't know why I even considered a new pack in the first place!

p.s @spikeuk76 I really appreciate you joining to share your wisdom and I couldn't of asked for a better source. I've got zinc oxide take but during training phase I'd rather allow me feet to blister and chaff so that they repair themselves stronger, however during the hike I will not hesitate to use the stuff if need be.

[sandbender]

Cut for your rations right back and resupply, that could save you 8 or 9 kilo's and a lighter pack perhaps. Set of hiking poles should be a priority or if you carry on then 20 or 30 years down the line you could end up like me with patella femoral syndrome and arthritis plus a damaged spine.

Good advice there, you can probably carry all that and for the whole distance, you may well feel great for having done so, but you will be older one day and may still want to get out and about, think about that and try to cut down on the weight a bit.

Have a great walk.

[jackcbr]

Now maybe its just me but all the talk of training to get into shape to go for a walk [albiet a very strenuous one carrying some weight] does seem a bit bizarre?

when I walked the pennine I did a little research, bought all the maps, packed a bag and headed out. Sure I may not have done things 'properly' or in the time frame I wished but I did finish it without killing myself or even becoming too shagged out to enjoy it - [I even took some days out to 'go over there' - which is the advantage of not cutting your maps up].

Don't people just keep in shape by day to day doing stuff [rather than going to the gym or HAVING to do it cause 'I'm going to such a place' etc] and eating healthily? I'm no super man and weigh less than 12 stone [always have - genetic??] and have a desk job - true in the last few years I've felt myself getting weaker but I think I could still pack a bag and get on with a couple of weeks adventure without any training for it [probably do me some good]. But I believe I could do this because I lead a fairly active life [I haven't got a telly for a start, so that frees up a tremendous amount of time] when I'm not at work I'm doing house-work, out with the kids, out with the dogs or up the allotment - I haven't got time to train and probably wouldn't want to - As I've heard somewhere before 'you've just got to keep moving'.

anyway rant over

Sorry for hi-jacking the thread

I'd have to so no to. It depends on what you are doing to be active. I'm generally active in my lifestyle (no don't laugh, those that know me). I'm kept busy on the family small holding and can generally lift quite hefty loads over short distances. But if I want to do a comfortable distance walk carrying several days worth of kit, I would want to get some "training in" just to get the muscles and joints use to working that way again. If I was regularly walking a few miles over hills it wouldn't be such an issue to extend that to exped lengths. I did the CtoC when I was younger with no training and heavy, heavy kit. I did it, we motored, but did I really enjoy it, well at the time not really. I'd love to go back and do it again, but I know I'm carrying around 6 extra stone that I wasn't then, I'm not cycling 30 miles a day to get to college and 25 years of an abused body means I would need to train to even contemplate it. Just general wear and tear on joints would also be a factor these days.

I guess in essence, if you are generally active in a certain way (say walking the dog over some local hills) it's not an issue to extend that and push the body a bit harder. But you wouldn't consider swimming the channel without training.

[mousey]

[QUOTE=jackcbr;1120503]
But you wouldn't consider swimming the channel without training.
/QUOTE]

Yep fair enough.

[mrcharly]

hmm 2 back to back sets of 35 full straight arm overhand pullups...... not sure about that without some serious prior training

It was me that mentioned being able to do that - a long time ago, when I was seriously into kayaking, and yes, it took a lot of training.

But as someone said, not very relevant to carrying a heavy backpack. Dead lifts and shoulder presses are more useful.

If you are fairly fit and healthy and not carrying a big load (15kg or less) then prob no need to 'train'. But if you have back problems, or are going to carry a lot, some training will help prevent injury and make the whole experience much more enjoyable.