Physical conditioning with heavy backpack

[lub0]

Hi all. Now that I've done this years heavy work at the allotmont, my mum can now take over with the planting and such like and I can begin to train for my upcoming Pennine Way unsupported walk.

Well training began today with an 8.9 (measured it in google earth) mile walk carrying a 28kg (61lb) ALICE pack wearing shorts, british army coolmax t-shirt and Merrel chameleon blast3 shoes, and I must say after 2 miles it was pretty hellish with the first casualty being the uncomfortable albeit not too painful chaffing and pressure on the shoulders, then my right foot blistered slightly, then my left ankle started to play up, however the ankle discomfort seemed to dissapear after a couple of miles. The last 1.5 mile was truly atrocious as my legs were really fatiguing and the shoulder strap discomfort was becoming unbearable however all that being said I completed the walk in 3 hours 20 minutes and I'm happy that I pushed myself to my current limits and apart from the blister on the right foot my muscles feel rested now. As soon as the blister heals I'm going to try for 12 miles and gradually work my way up to 22 miles as that is what I plan to cover per day during the PW trip.

One thing I found out is that the tendency to "double-over" while carrying a heavy pack is no good when you are training. I found remaining erect and "leading with the hips" really hit the hip flexor and upper leg muscles like nothing I've ever experienced before. I not only want to achieve 22 miles, but to do it comfortably so I'm not always half breathing due to my chest cavity being compressed by the weight of the pack.

I do wonder if another pack would be more comfortable, though I'm assuming when you reach past the 25kg mark any pack becomese uncomfortable. I usually pack my ALICE to 23kg and find it a pleasure to use. I guess the fitter I get the more comfortable the 28kg will feel.

My current kit weighing frenzy has got my PW packing list to 24kg and 277 grams but I chose to train with 28kg to make up for the fact that I'm not climbing hills all the time, and I really want the 24kg to feel light.

[boatman]

By unsupported do you mean that you will not be reprovisioning on route? If you are buying food on the way the pack seems really heavy.

[lub0]

By unsupported do you mean that you will not be reprovisioning on route? If you are buying food on the way the pack seems really heavy.

I'm carrying all the food I'll be eating.

[shaggystu]

I'm carrying all the food I'll be eating.

why on earth would you do such a thing?!?!?!? your pack is enormously heavy, i wouldn't want to carry that for more than a couple of miles, and i'm a relatively fit bloke with more than a few backpacking miles under my belt.

also, ALICE pack, honestly? are you wanting to hurt yourself?

[Teepee]

Before the arctic course this year, I was training with 40l of water and 10kg of dumbell weights so I knew I could carry my gear on my back if I needed to. All carried quite ably and reasonably comfortably in a Sabre 130.

When I say comfortable, the pack never hurt at all and felt like it could take more, but the pack never got lighter after a few weeks of carrying it and my legs shake at the memory;they never found it comfortable!

Trying to lift it on was 'interesting'

Sounds like your carrying 14kg odd of food?

[Huon]

I was in the Lake District for a couple of weeks camping and walking with my then 8 year old son 3 years ago. I had to carry a lot of his load too so my pack weight was up around the 28Kg mark. My pack was an Aarn Load Limo and I think it made a real difference. The Aarn packs distribute the load in the front of the body as well as the back and this encourages a more upright posture. The pack certainly felt heavy and I noticed the hills but it was still far more comfortable than a similar capacity pack that concentrated the weight on the back.

Cheers!

Huon

Hi all. Now that I've done this years heavy work at the allotmont, my mum can now take over with the planting and such like and I can begin to train for my upcoming Pennine Way unsupported walk.

Well training began today with an 8.9 (measured it in google earth) mile walk carrying a 28kg (61lb) ALICE pack wearing shorts, british army coolmax t-shirt and Merrel chameleon blast3 shoes, and I must say after 2 miles it was pretty hellish with the first casualty being the uncomfortable albeit not too painful chaffing and pressure on the shoulders, then my right foot blistered slightly, then my left ankle started to play up, however the ankle discomfort seemed to dissapear after a couple of miles. The last 1.5 mile was truly atrocious as my legs were really fatiguing and the shoulder strap discomfort was becoming unbearable however all that being said I completed the walk in 3 hours 20 minutes and I'm happy that I pushed myself to my current limits and apart from the blister on the right foot my muscles feel rested now. As soon as the blister heals I'm going to try for 12 miles and gradually work my way up to 22 miles as that is what I plan to cover per day during the PW trip.

One thing I found out is that the tendency to "double-over" while carrying a heavy pack is no good when you are training. I found remaining erect and "leading with the hips" really hit the hip flexor and upper leg muscles like nothing I've ever experienced before. I not only want to achieve 22 miles, but to do it comfortably so I'm not always half breathing due to my chest cavity being compressed by the weight of the pack.

I do wonder if another pack would be more comfortable, though I'm assuming when you reach past the 25kg mark any pack becomese uncomfortable. I usually pack my ALICE to 23kg and find it a pleasure to use. I guess the fitter I get the more comfortable the 28kg will feel.

My current kit weighing frenzy has got my PW packing list to 24kg and 277 grams but I chose to train with 28kg to make up for the fact that I'm not climbing hills all the time, and I really want the 24kg to feel light.

[andybysea]

I do a similar training to keep fit, twice a week i do a 7 mile loop plenty of up and down part's with a plce bergen with 50lbs in it,though im not doing it for anything in particular just to stop me being to lardy arsed.

[lub0]

why on earth would you do such a thing?!?!?!? your pack is enormously heavy, i wouldn't want to carry that for more than a couple of miles, and i'm a relatively fit bloke with more than a few backpacking miles under my belt.

also, ALICE pack, honestly? are you wanting to hurt yourself?

Why? Why not! I'm relishing in the thought of the challenge!
I defend the ALICE pack. I walked the first quarter of the PW with a 23kg ALICE and was running up the hills almost! One of our party members had a bust knee, hence the non-completion.
However the ALICE pack at 28kg earlier today was hellish for the last 2 miles, but I think any backpack would be at such a weight, no?

Sounds like your carrying 14kg odd of food?

Crickey, how the heck did you know! 13470 grams to be precise!

Before the arctic course this year, I was training with 40l of water and 10kg of dumbell weights so I knew I could carry my gear on my back if I needed to. All carried quite ably and reasonably comfortably in a Sabre 130.

Wait, you mean 40 liters of water being 40kg, plus another 10kg in dumbell iron? So 50kg in your Sabre 130?!

I had to carry a lot of his load too so my pack weight was up around the 28Kg mark. My pack was an Aarn Load Limo and I think it made a real difference.

Ok now I'm seriously doubting my ALICE pack. Maybe I will change packs afteral. It seems the ALICE is no good beyond 25kg (personal experience beginning to reveal the limitations of my kit!).
Luckily though my PW load is at 24kg so I should be just fine however you guys have got me wanting a new pack now, haha!


I do have an old Lowe Alpine civilian backpack, made when Lowe Alpine made their stuff in the UK, and it is a very nice pack so I might load that up on my next 28kg training day and see how it goes.

p.s all my weights include the weight of the ALICE itself (3kg).

[santaman2000]

Carrying that much weight is certainly possible. Maybe even comfortable for a few miles. But to "comfortably" carry that much, for more than a few days, at that pace, you would need to weigh 121.387 kilos. Regardless of what pack you use.

[Shewie]

Will you be wild camping every night, staying at a pub or campsite, passing any post offices at all?

On our TGO in May we sent food parcels to pick up at campsites every three or four nights, the most we ever carried was four days and one spare.

24kg would kill me after about three days, I was pretty sore and knackered carrying 8.2kg

[Andy BB]

I'm no expert on carrying heavy loads long-distance, but doesn't the ALICE pack put most of the load on your shoulders, rather than splitting it between hips and shoulders like the best packs? Sounds uncomfortable to me!

[lub0]

I'm no expert on carrying heavy loads long-distance, but doesn't the ALICE pack put most of the load on your shoulders, rather than splitting it between hips and shoulders like the best packs? Sounds uncomfortable to me!

Not at all! The ALICE pack does the hips/shoulder distribution thing very nicely! Shewie I did follow your last TGO, very insightful for me, but I really want to do the full walk unsupported.
I tell you though, that TeePee guy has got me seriously considering buying a Karrimmor Sabre after claiming he carried 50kg pretty comfortably in one!

[Shewie]

Not at all! The ALICE pack does the hips/shoulder distribution thing very nicely! Shewie I did follow your last TGO, very insightful for me, but I really want to do the full walk unsupported.
I tell you though, that TeePee guy has got me seriously considering buying a Karrimmor Sabre after claiming he carried 50kg pretty comfortably in one!

Best of luck with it then fella, if I'm in Hebden Bridge when you pass through I'll buy you a pint.

[santaman2000]

I'm no expert on carrying heavy loads long-distance, but doesn't the ALICE pack put most of the load on your shoulders, rather than splitting it between hips and shoulders like the best packs? Sounds uncomfortable to me!

Not if:
A. You're short, or
B. You're very good at adjusting the suspension

That said I manage well with it (and like the pack very much) and I'm 6' 2." But I don't try to carry monster loads.

Oh, and IF you're carrying the "medium" ALICE without a frame, then there is NO waist belt and the entire load is on your shoulders.

[santaman2000]

Not at all! The ALICE pack does the hips/shoulder distribution thing very nicely! Shewie I did follow your last TGO, very insightful for me, but I really want to do the full walk unsupported.
I tell you though, that TeePee guy has got me seriously considering buying a Karrimmor Sabre after claiming he carried 50kg pretty comfortably in one!

Have a look at the ALICE thread started by Tengu. Near the end you'll see how Garethw set his up on a MOLLE frame with MSS carrier. That'll be a much more capable sytem than the stock ALICE.

[santaman2000]

...Wait, you mean 40 liters of water being 40kg, plus another 10kg in dumbell iron? So 50kg in your Sabre 130?!...

I was thinking the same thing. Again carrying that weight is doable. But I think only Shrek would enjoy it.

[shaggystu]

Why? Why not! I'm relishing in the thought of the challenge!.......

fair enough then chap, all the best with that, i really do hope that you don't do any permanent damage to your ankles/knees/back/hips etc.

oh yeah, don't forget the photo's

[mousey]

Doing the pennine with that sort of weight is certianly do-able, I was around 18-23kg in an old rucksack with no hip-pad [I was younger and alot fitter then] 4kg water, couple of kg food [I was re-supplying on the way] far too many clothes than I actually needed and other stuff I didn't really need, also OS maps for the enitre route - paper is damn heavy stuff when you've got a big block of it! Originally I planned to do it in 14 days but after a couple I was knackered and realised I wasn't enjoying it so slowed down, forgot about a time frame and started to enjoy the walk -after a week of walking I certianly felt even fitter - by the time I'd got to the end I thought about turning round and walking back!

If I was to do it again I'd really cut down the weight and have a much longer time frame and a better pack.

Also It is very nice to drop into a pub and get a nice good meal and a few pints.

Probably not much help but hey there you go! just have FUN and enjoy it - or there's no point.

[robin wood]

Why not just stay home and beat yourself every night with a birch whip it'd be about as much fun and probably less painful.

[The Lord Poncho]

I don't know what fitness level you are at already, But my advice is to build up slowly. If you have gone from average exercise to what you describe in one hit then you run the risk of picking up an injury sometime soon, and you won't be finishing the walk you are training for at all.....

There is a reason why the military don't hit recruits with the full length combat fitness test up to 8 miles (some units 10 miles), 25 kg, 2 hrs until a few months into training.

Take care and build up the weight slowly (the distance is less a worry), and give your body adquate time to recover between sessions. Don't just focus on bergen training, and do some serious stretching off after you complete each session otherwise your body won't get the full benefit, and you are even more likely to injure yourself...

[boatman]

OK the challenge of doing it with just the stuff you start off from is a fantastic idea and I wish you luck but I wonder if reducing kit and food to minimum and "bombing" through isn't the way to go. Thus training should be on possible miles covered per day and what is the least kit to give you a decent night's sleep. If to enjoy the walk and scenery is the aim then a slower pace and resupply seems sensible.

[Skaukraft]

The Alice pack is a toy. The best way to use it is to soak it in kerosene and set it on fire. It will keep you warm for a minute.

[mousey]

The Alice pack is a toy. The best way to use it is to soak it in kerosene and set it on fire. It will keep you warm for a minute.

Now that made me laugh

Somewhere on here:-

Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day, set fire to him and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

[I know I have a poor sense of humor]

[rik_uk3]

I used to carry 50lb packs but I was fitter but this was back in the days when a two man mountain tent weighed 20lbs. Minus your food your pack is still 14Kg, that seems a lot of weight, what kit are you carrying? It won't matter how fit you are or how good your pack is, carrying this load will impact on your back, your knees and your enjoyment of the trip.

[blacktimberwolf]

and I really want the 24kg to feel light.

Dream on, I don't think 24 Kg is ever going to feel light, even with a vulcan or Karrimor sabre, it ain't gonna be easy, though probably more bearable than with an Alice pack which tends to pull the weight off your back.....
Lord Poncho is right when he says you should start training with lighter loads then slowly work up to the weight you expect to carry...giving your body time to strengthen the parts that need to be 'reinforced' resulting in less strains & injuries..
I take my leather bush hat off to you....walking 22 miles a day with 24+ Kgs over rough, hilly terrain & with an Alice pack to boot, will be one hell of an achievement.......good luck

[Perrari]

I agree I think you do need a better backpack. I also think that you need to travel lighter & re supply with food on the way. Back in May you posted regarding the suitability of the Merrels to do the walk, now you have ankle problems and slight blistering after a couple of miles, I also think you should reconsider your footwear. I dont think they are suitable for 22 miles day in day out with the loads you are considering, regardless of which rucksack you choose.

I assume that you are already reasonably fit otherwise you would not be considering doing the walk in the first place. Why dont you try to walk 22 miles in the Merrels with a small load ? waterproofs, food & water for a day, map, compass etc (i.e essentials). That would give you an indication if you could do it again the following day, and also an indication if you could do it with 24 kg on your back.

At the end of the day it is entirely up to you how you choose to do it, and I admire you for wanting to do it the hard way. If it was me I would go lighter & try to stay in cheap accomodation some nights (youth hostels / bunkhouses) But as you are doing it this summer I assume you may be too late to get accomodation as they would be fully booked ?


I have no personal experience of the Pennine way, but I have done the Pembrokeshire coast path (about 100 miles less), I remember how gruelling that was in the first few days due to carrying too much weight. On day 3 I met up with my cousin who took everything that was not needed from us, and anything that could be shared was. Ther were 3 of us with 2 tents, so 1 tent went, the other was shared between us for for carrying. The rest of the walk was certainly more enjoyable.

Anyway the best of luck with what you decide.

[andybysea]

lub0 the 80-130 may not be your cup of tea, i have one and i hate it(currently resides with my brother) cant get the damn thing to sit comfy on me much prefer the vulcan or plce bergen, think its like all things some things suit some and not other's,id try one for comfort before laying out 200 notes(wish id done the same though it was 160 when i did).

[southey]

I have to ask, if 14kg is food(is this water too( is it wet food)) , 3kg is pack(WOW!!!) what is the rest? shelter, water proof jkt, wash kit, socks\foot powder,pants, two spare t shirts and fak, pot and stove, map sheets cut to size and a compass?

[southey]

Just to add it sounds like an excellent trip out chap!

[vildor]

I think the only guys who would do such a thing live in the Himalayas.. And they use tumplines.

Can you post a kit list of what you are going to carry? If possible with weight, including food weight (you're gonna burn a lot of callories carrying 24Kg every day for 22miles).