Which is the best large army surplus rucksack ?

[silva]

Which is the best large military surplus rucksack ? I will be collecting some kit together for camping trips and will be needing a large rucksack, as will be camping with smallish children. Thought I would run the question past the experts ! On Ebay there seems to be a wide choice of modern looking surplus packs availiable for not vast sums of money. Or would I be better looking for a s/h civilian commercial one.
Cheers

[spandit]

A PLCE Bergen is pretty tough & can be found quite cheap. They're heavy, though and not the most comfortable

[Shewie]

I tried PLCEs, Vulcans and Crusaders, none of them as comfortable as a Sabre IMHO

I'd try and move away from the massive packs if you can, try and look to reduce your pack load and you'll enjoy it much more. If your'e just walking a few yards from the car then go for it.

[rik_uk3]

Bergen with side pouches, LOTS of space and many find them comfortable to wear.

http://www.britishmilitarysurplus.co...shopscr87.html £25, can't go wrong, you can get the side pouches elsewhere when you decide you are happy with the pack. It says faded but the one I had was grade one, as was other stuff I've had off them; highly recommended company from my own experience.

[garethw]

Lowe Alpine Sting... Best carry, excellent quality, 85L capacity and only £78 here:
http://www.thexmod.com/item_detail.asp?id=11721

Can't be happier with mine... cracking pack.
cheers
Gareth

[Andy BB]

If you want to go large, the Lowe Alpine Saracen is enormous - with the floating lid you can stuff an Exped 140litre dry bag inside it (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QryArhQsO2E&feature=plcp ), and still have additional carry on the side pouches. It has what appears to be a bullet-proof adjustable back system as well, and in my limited experience is extremely comfortable. They occasionally come up on ebay and were issued to the dutch military I believe. Seem to have an excellent reputation as being bullet-proof (not literally!) by those who've used them as well.

[kard133]

the sting is an excellent pack, as mentioned above, can be purchased for around £60 from military mart, endicotts (heartily recommended) or there is the larger sailient pack, about 70l if you want big, field and trek have them for about £100, and this place has surplus saracens I think, would need to confirm, for £80 http://79.170.40.32/militaryandoutdo...6rlfos7qj43c05

[The Lord Poncho]

Any of the Lowe Alpines, or Berghaus Vulcans/crusaders etc if you are looking to buy a genuine 2nd hand ex military rucksack. If you are looking for a large military style rucksack then add the bigger Karrimor sabres to your list.

If you intend to carry the pack more than a mile or so, then my advice is to steer well clear of the British Army PLCE bergen, they are designed to be used sat on top of webbing (belt pouches), and even then comfort wasn't a massive design priority. Most people, but not all, struggle to use them comfortably.

I have the Karrimor sabre 60-100- my choice for civvi multi day expeds (most comfortable), a Lowe Alpine Saracen for military use (good balance between comfort and strength), and several PLCE bergens (retired in favour of the Karrimor and Lowe)

[lub0]

Large ALICE pack is a pleasure to use. I can fill it up with 30kg of kit and provided you are roughly average height and build you can get all the weight on to your hips and off the shoulders, plus the airflow to your back is a god send.

[santaman2000]

Yes but with the ALICE as with the military bergens, be sure you're getting genuine surplus and not a cheap knock off.

[Native Nathan]

OK as many people have said the Negatives about the PLCE Bergen are True, Its Heavy for what it is, Its far from the most comfortable bag on the market, but they aren't exactly uncomfortable, and in a civilian environment it looks hideous.

That said.....

If your after something that is going to last no matter what you throw at it or more likely where your throw it, and don't want to spend a small fortune then second Hand Grade 1 PLCE Bergen is what you are after.

Like I said earlier
If Weight is an issue then don't get one.
If Comfort is an issue then don't get one.
If how it Looks is an issue then don't get one.

If you want a bag that can take a bit of abuse.
If you want a bag that doesn't cost the earth
If you want a bag that has a lot of room

Then PLCE Bergen is what you are after.

The come in two sizes Short back which is shorter but wider and a long back which is taller but narrower

Hope that helps

Nathan

[santaman2000]

OK as many people have said the Negatives about the PLCE Bergen are True, Its Heavy for what it is, Its far from the most comfortable bag on the market, but they aren't exactly uncomfortable, and in a civilian environment it looks hideous...

Like I said earlier...
If how it Looks is an issue then don't get one....

I thought they looked pretty good personally.

[silva]

Hi.
Thank you for the useful info !

[rik_uk3]

I thought they looked pretty good personally.

I found them comfortable as does my son but we are on the taller side so perhaps this helps. They are not fashionable packs but very functional, hard wearing and for many comfortable etc. That said the Alice was comfy too. I still prefer (from memory) the external frame packs, if I were young or up to hiking I'd look for one even now, though perhaps this is a case of rose tinted specs.

[SI-Den]

As a lot of folks have said, PLCE bergan is not a bad bit of kit but like all packs it has it's pro's & con's - all of which have been covered above.

Personally Ive never had a problem with them - but then again I did my basic in 58 webbing with a 58 'large' pack so anything was an improvement!

I also rate the ALICE pack, I have a large ALICE and had not had any problems with it - although it is on the heavy side.

Recently I picked up a New Zealand army ALICE pack, again a very good bit of kit, in fetching DPM which is fine for ACF trips as it matches our current kit - may need to get an MTP cover though when we get issued our MTP :-(

Den

[rik_uk3]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100-Litre-...item4d00458513

A sturdy looking pack.

[santaman2000]

This one from the Marine Corps is getting good reviews but they're expensive new and difficult to find a complete one used. www.ilbepack.com

[blacktimberwolf]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100-Litre-...item4d00458513

A sturdy looking pack.

That's a French army bag used by the 'chasseur alpin' ...the mountain branch of the army..


for some reason they're not very popular here, I've never seen one in the flesh so can't comment on the build quality & there's precious little info about them on the net.....I can tell you though that they sell for peanuts...for example...http://cgi.ebay.fr/SAC-A-DOS-renforc...item4845ba1d3c

[blacktimberwolf]

This one from the Marine Corps is getting good reviews but they're expensive new and difficult to find a complete one used. www.ilbepack.com

The USMC ILBE rucky is in my opinion one of the best ruckies out there,.....if I had the funds & could justify buying yet another bag, I wouldn't hessitate.....the demo/review vids on youtube don't help either....there are limits to my resistance

[carabao]

The USMC ILBE rucky is in my opinion one of the best ruckies out there,.....if I had the funds & could justify buying yet another bag, I wouldn't hessitate.....the demo/review vids on youtube don't help either....there are limits to my resistance

I scrounged one in Iraq, absolutely the nuts, looks feels like someone actually thought out the design with need and use as priority. Very practical. I have some Kifaru packs and they are not that great compared to this. On ebay there is a Frenchie selling them brand new, cheaper than Kifaru and no hassle with customs.
Go on Go on you know it makes sense, she will will only hate your guts for a short while, and she only hates you because she loves you

[rik_uk3]

That's a French army bag used by the 'chasseur alpin' ...the mountain branch of the army..


for some reason they're not very popular here, I've never seen one in the flesh so can't comment on the build quality & there's precious little info about them on the net.....I can tell you though that they sell for peanuts...for example...http://cgi.ebay.fr/SAC-A-DOS-renforc...item4845ba1d3c

Good gosh, cheap as chips, I've asked for postage costs and I'll buy one. Don't need one but at that money its worth a punt, thanks for the link

[Rabbitsmacker]

Good gosh, cheap as chips, I've asked for postage costs and I'll buy one. Don't need one but at that money its worth a punt, thanks for the link

I think you could be onto a good thing there, by the looks of the pictures it's a direct copy of a Lowe alpine. Now all I need to ask myself is....do I really need another rucksack? The mrs says no! Lol

[Rabbitsmacker]

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/100-Litre-...item4d00458513

A sturdy looking pack.

Actually just checked out the seller and I've ordered from them before, pretty good service and an honest description of goods received.

[Andy BB]

Not sure about that. No side-pocket zips, and can't tell if its an adjustable back. But for around 25 quid posted to the UK it looks a good deal. Rik - let us know if its any good when you get it please?

[blacktimberwolf]

Re the French rucksack....
Hope you don't think I'm encouraging you to buy one ..but after a google search I managed to find this....the back looks adjustable & has some serious padding in the shoulder straps & hip belt..looks extremely comfortable & well made.
The guy doesn't say much about about it but if you want anything translated , just ask...

http://bushcraft.fr/phpBB/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=2782


Edit: One word of warning though, where ever the weight is mentioned, it's usually around the 4 kg mark, so not a light bag...

[Rabbitsmacker]

Not sure about that. No side-pocket zips, and can't tell if its an adjustable back. But for around 25 quid posted to the UK it looks a good deal. Rik - let us know if its any good when you get it please?

Not all Lowe alpine have side zips, it looks very similar to a civilianised salient that's then been put back into military ways, either or, it looks very good.

[blacktimberwolf]

Defo not a Lowe Alpine................some sources say it's made by Millets but I find that hard to believe.............the back system does look L.A.-ish so was probably copied...& why not, it's a good tried & tested system, cheap to manufacture, easy to use & you don't have to spend a fortune inovating a new one.

[Rabbitsmacker]

Defo not a Lowe Alpine................some sources say it's made by Millets but I find that hard to believe.............the back system does look L.A.-ish so was probably copied...& why not, it's a good tried & tested system, cheap to manufacture, easy to use & you don't have to spend a fortune inovating a new one.

Exactly right, copy, modify, remanufacture for your own needs. Yeah it's not Lowe, but the back system and straps just scream copy of. I'm not up on the French equipment, but the Dutch kit is all copies of Lowe but made by a different maker, can't think of the name off hand and my Dutch pack is in the loft, could be the same story, get a big name in to solve the problem then take the design over and get it copied cheaper. Worked for the Brits with berghaus and the Bergen, haglofs for Swedish rucksacks, north face for 58 patt sleeping bags etc etc. anyway, I digress, the pack looks good and usable. We should buy one and do a pass round lol

[garethw]

My Dutch Lowe Alpine Sting pack came with a Lowe Alpine leaflet (in Dutch), and has Lowe Alpine marked on the press studs at the rear... So unless the supplier is selling counterfiet copies illeagally, its a genuine Lowe Alpine pack.. as supplied to the Dutch military.
whatever its a cracking backpack and good at double the price...
cheers
Gareth

[Rabbitsmacker]

My Dutch Lowe Alpine Sting pack came with a Lowe Alpine leaflet (in Dutch), and has Lowe Alpine marked on the press studs at the rear... So unless the supplier is selling counterfiet copies illeagally, its a genuine Lowe Alpine pack.. as supplied to the Dutch military.
whatever its a cracking backpack and good at double the price...
cheers
Gareth

It's genuine no doubt about it, what I meant was in the case of the Lowe alpine Dutch kit is that Lowe designed the range of rucksacks, but they don't hold the contract to supply them all to the military, both my sting and strike are made by someone else and are identical just without any branding ref to Lowe alpine.