Arctic Rucksack/ Royal Marine H-Frame Bergen

**The Lord Poncho** · 11-06-2012, 16:04

Hello all- just after a bit of info about these actually. I picked one up in excellent condition at the weekend, dated early 1980s, and with an original frame (interestingly stamped 'Karrimor' and the military arrow). I think they must be fairly rare these days, and i certainly can't find anything out about them on the internet. I'll get some pictures tonight hopefully and post them.

Essentially it consists an external olive green H-shaped frame (i.e not the usual clansman radio frame used in the SAS/Para and GS bergens), and the bergen is olive butyl nylon with a zip pocket, large front pocket (with zip and buckle closure), two side pockets with press studs to fold flat (like on the SAS bergen), and a large main compartment with a snow sleeve at the top. Straps (the wide 'anti chafe' straps) are attached to the bergen not the frame. There is room for skis to be slid down behind the side pockets (fastened by a strap above and below the pocket), and the frame extends someway below the pack, presumably for stowage of a sleeping bag.

Most of the above is pure observation, but i would love to see some pictures of them in action, hear peoples experience of them and understand how the back was set up....

Cheers!

**The Lord Poncho** · 11-06-2012, 17:23

I've tracked down at least one photo of them in use. Amused to see the classic 'no waistbelt lean' being deployed....

**santaman2000** · 11-06-2012, 17:38

Is the frame metal (aluminum) or thermo plastc?

**The Lord Poncho** · 11-06-2012, 17:49

It's aluminium- pretty light actually - with what looks to be an olive green anodised finish. The top of the frame uprights both fit into a little pocket either side on the back, and the base of the pack is kept snug to the frame with a strap and buckle either side.

**blacktimberwolf** · 11-06-2012, 18:32

Are these the ruckies in question ?...

**The Lord Poncho** · 11-06-2012, 18:38

Oh you legend- yep- those are the ones! Cracking photos, thanks!

And still leaning in the lower photo!

Which book did you get that from out of interest?

**blacktimberwolf** · 11-06-2012, 18:43

Originally Posted by The Lord Poncho

Which book did you get that from out of interest?

Book? ...do they still exist ?

...try googling royal marines falklands...

**Johnnyboy1971** · 11-06-2012, 18:45

Love the way there all pointing there weapon at themselves.

I did see a bergan with a H frame in my local surplus store whilst i was looking today, thing is it was in DPM so not sure if someone had tried to retro fit a frame to a newer pack.

By the looks of the way there all standing i would say things have advanced enough for even us to move on to more up todate gear.

**The Lord Poncho** · 11-06-2012, 19:06

Originally Posted by blacktimberwolf

Book? ...do they still exist ?

...try googling royal marines falklands...

I googled pretty much every combination of words but those- good find!

**Limaed** · 11-06-2012, 19:10

Think these are worth a mint to collectors, nice find. Are you going to use it?

**The Lord Poncho** · 11-06-2012, 19:11

Originally Posted by Johnnyboy1971

Love the way there all pointing there weapon at themselves.

I did see a bergan with a H frame in my local surplus store whilst i was looking today, thing is it was in DPM so not sure if someone had tried to retro fit a frame to a newer pack.

By the looks of the way there all standing i would say things have advanced enough for even us to move on to more up todate gear.

There were some aftermarket DPM bergens produced in the last couple of years by the likes of Dragon Supplies that used the old clansman/sas 'A' frame- not seen one in DPM with an 'H' frame though.

I would have thought the 'lean' is largely attributable to a lack of waist belt on the bergen- something hopefully that should be reletively easy to retrofit to the frame. Hopefully.

**The Lord Poncho** · 11-06-2012, 19:15

Originally Posted by Limaed

Think these are worth a mint to collectors, nice find. Are you going to use it?

I hope so- I'll try (when I have time) to apply some modifications, such as a waist belt and cross straps across the back, but these mods will all be reversible. The rucksack is in almost mint condition- no holes, signs of abrasion, barely any scratches on the frame. Annoyingly though there is a number '8' painted in sand paint on top of the hood. Not sure if that could be removed with some chemical or something.

If I later decide I'm not going to use it (or the wife decides for me), I may offer it up for swaps on here rather than stick it on Ebay.

**Twodogs** · 11-06-2012, 19:17

Classic bit of RM kit , nice one and the arctic sleeping bag of the day rolled up on the frame in the cover/bag no goretex then ,,,
Notice the Swedish Army ski boots on the Marine eating the scran issued to some to replace the DMS boot of the day ,,

Twodogs

**Twodogs** · 11-06-2012, 19:19

Heres the belt ,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-Origi...item3a756bb4d2

**screwdriver** · 11-06-2012, 19:27

ive had one of those down arctic bags with the pvc coated nylon bivi bag cover since i was young ,school mates old man brought it back from the falklands, though dont use it now.

**andybysea** · 11-06-2012, 19:32

In the first pic the Lord Poncho put up the high leg boot's that replaced the D.M.S boot's ive got a pair of 84 dated that are still going strong,used on most of my trips out.

**The Lord Poncho** · 11-06-2012, 19:45

Originally Posted by Twodogs

Heres the belt ,

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Rare-Origi...item3a756bb4d2

Oh good find! It doesn't look quite up to todays standards does it! I'm tempted to get it though....

**The Lord Poncho** · 11-06-2012, 19:46

Originally Posted by andybysea

In the first pic the Lord Poncho put up the high leg boot's that replaced the D.M.S boot's ive got a pair of 84 dated that are still going strong,used on most of my trips out.

With the eyelets nice and shiney brass now? I had a pair that went on for years too....the leather got so supple, when you took them off the ankles folded over under their own weight and touched the floor....

**rik_uk3** · 11-06-2012, 19:52

Lots of great books on the Falklands conflict if you google, don't ignore the other units, the Parachute Regiment did an equally good job as the Marines.

For those with a medical interest these are a must read.
http://www.redandgreen.co.uk/
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Red-Green-Li.../dp/055299068X

**Basha72** · 11-06-2012, 20:10

Yep they are hard to find these days for some reason, I'm guessing somewhere thee is a MOD store waiting to be opened that's got stacked shelves full of them ;-) one of the lads in cadets years ago had one not much room compared to the Airborne/SAS Bergen. I have two 1960-70 issue SAS a frame bergens and 1 butyl SAS/ Para as and when I come across one of the RM artic. Bergen if the price suites I'll be adding to my collection lol

Basha

**andybysea** · 11-06-2012, 21:26

Lord Poncho, yep soft as chamois leather now,painfull when i first broke them in(they've had a fare few tin's of lundhag wax worked into them over the years)

**Wayland** · 11-06-2012, 22:34

Originally Posted by andybysea

In the first pic the Lord Poncho put up the high leg boot's that replaced the D.M.S boot's ive got a pair of 84 dated that are still going strong,used on most of my trips out.

I wore the soles off a pair of those twice before they finally fell apart. Great boots.

**santaman2000** · 12-06-2012, 00:00

Originally Posted by The Lord Poncho

I hope so- I'll try (when I have time) to apply some modifications, such as a waist belt and cross straps across the back, but these mods will all be reversible. The rucksack is in almost mint condition- no holes, signs of abrasion, barely any scratches on the frame. Annoyingly though there is a number '8' painted in sand paint on top of the hood. Not sure if that could be removed with some chemical or something.

If I later decide I'm not going to use it (or the wife decides for me), I may offer it up for swaps on here rather than stick it on Ebay.

If you're thinking of the collector's value, you might want to think twice before trying to remove that #8. It might (or might not) have some value as well if it can be traced to a specific unit, battle, individual, etc.

**santaman2000** · 12-06-2012, 00:03

Originally Posted by The Lord Poncho

...I would have thought the 'lean' is largely attributable to a lack of waist belt on the bergen- something hopefully that should be reletively easy to retrofit to the frame. Hopefully.

Possibly. Also remember that those photos are of actual Marines probably with a full sustaiment load (of military gear) in those rucks. The shear weight might well overburden the wearer with a modern ruck with a waistbelt as well.

**kawasemi** · 12-06-2012, 02:13

Great pics...interesting info.

I remember that framed rucksack without waistbelt lean well. Came free of charge with every pack bought

My old Cobmaster (long deceased) managed to create it perfectly in the 70's/80's

kawasemi

**The Lord Poncho** · 12-06-2012, 09:41

Here you go- a few (fairly poor, sorry) photos:

I'll try and get some better ones/close ups if there is any interest.

**andybysea** · 12-06-2012, 09:47

Looking good,though think getting the belt would help(i have a soft spot for old school kit) and why dont they make more kit out of butyl nylon that stuff is TOUGH.

**The Lord Poncho** · 12-06-2012, 10:32

A belt for it was linked to by Twodogs- and I am tempted, just not sure if I could justify the expense. It would make it complete though (I think), and probably I would get the cash back if ever I sold it.

I agree on the Butyl Nylon- it is oustanding, and amazingly light. This whole bergen with the frame weighs infinitely less than my Lowe Saracen, and although I haven't actually weighed it, I could confidently predict it is far less than the issue PLCE bergen as well.

**Tiley** · 12-06-2012, 11:43

The frame looks like the old external frames on the Karrimor Annapurna series of packs. I remember them from years back; they were pretty comfortable back then in 70s and early 80s.

It looks to be a real workhorse of a pack. I hope you'll use it - it's crying out to be trudged across wide open spaces! I'd be interested in some more pictures if you can manage them, purely to compare it with the Swedish LK70 I've finally finished tarting up with MOLLE straps and belt.

**The Lord Poncho** · 12-06-2012, 13:57

Originally Posted by Tiley

The frame looks like the old external frames on the Karrimor Annapurna series of packs. I remember them from years back; they were pretty comfortable back then in 70s and early 80s.

It looks to be a real workhorse of a pack. I hope you'll use it - it's crying out to be trudged across wide open spaces! I'd be interested in some more pictures if you can manage them, purely to compare it with the Swedish LK70 I've finally finished tarting up with MOLLE straps and belt.

I've just had a look at this link showing the annapurna frame- it does look similar, but there are a couple of differences. The arctic bergen straps fit to the pack, not the frame, and I think the arctic bergen frame is a touch longer: http://maceachain.blogspot.co.uk/200...implicity.html

I'll try to get more/better pictures!

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