Maker rules

[mountainm]

I'm thinking of either renewing my paid membership OR becoming a maker - but I note in the maker rules it states:

Maker (£30/Year)

• Max 8 items per month (unless they're low value items in which case a higher quantity is fair)
• No commissions (touting for commissions)
• Need items to be made before posting
• Can post personal items in Member Classifieds
• Can have a website link (in signature), to show wares. Can't point to their own site promoting their own goods.

Re.

Maker (£30/Year)

• No commissions (touting for commissions)
• Need items to be made before posting

I take it this doesn't stop userA approaching MakerB who is reknowned for making Doohickeys and asking MakerB to make a Doohickey for money?

It's just there to stop MakerB from posting up a notice saying "I make Doohickeys, who wants one?"

I'd like to become a maker, but I think (and I know others think the same) I'll stuggle to break even given the low volume of items I'll be producing per year. Also I've noticed some "non maker" members seem to sell high volumes of goods on the site on a regular basis. Hardly seems fair that someone who crafts the odd thing a month has to upgrade to be a maker, yet a member who uses the forum as a weekly carboot sale doesn't? I'd probably be up for paying a flat fee to sell instead. The fee could differ depending on the value of the item. This would be on top of my Members subs so to speak.

Not grumbling, the forum is great - just trying to get my head around which membership option is best for me.

thanks

Mike

[Kepis]

Exactly that Mike, you cant tout for sales and must have the items made and ready to go if you place them up for sale, I also agree with the other points you make.

I also think, and ive mentioned this before, the rule "Can have a website link (in signature), to show wares. Can't point to their own site promoting their own goods." on a makers membership is a bit unfair, you cant have a link in your signature that directly links to a website/webshop you may have, but anyone who joins the forum as a regular member can have whatever link they like in their signature line, ok, nobody has forced me to pay up to get a makers membership and i understand the rules as they stand and have obviously accepted them, otherwise i would not have bought a makers membership in the first place, but it just seems a bit, well, back to front to me, sure, i could also upgrade to maker plus and get the extra benefits that come with that level of membership, but why pay £60.00 a year, when in all honesty, you dont have to?, i know there are people out there touting for sales via PM and they dont have a Makers Plus membership, tbh, like some other long standing members and makers on this forum, im considering not renewing as a Maker next time it comes up and placing a link to an Etsy or similar webshop in my signature line instead.

[mountainm]

Ok, so as a maker I can post up a single (or multiple items) for sale. Hopefully sell them. Then If someone PMs me off the back of that and asks me to make something for them, for money, then no forum rules are broken.

No touting took place.

[Kepis]

Ok, so as a maker I can post up a single (or multiple items) for sale. Hopefully sell them. Then If someone PMs me off the back of that and asks me to make something for them, for money, then no forum rules are broken.

No touting took place.

Thats the way i understand it

[TurboGirl]

I'm a full member but when I asked permission to have a link to my 4x4 motor trade website, it was absolutely refused under any grounds Such a shame to have these limitations on a forum where as a community, our sales benefit us and the buyer and generate prestige for the forum itself too, it seems like a win-win to me.... but hey ho, I'm sure theres good reasons beyond my ken.

[mountainm]

I'm a full member but when I asked permission to have a link to my 4x4 motor trade website, it was absolutely refused under any grounds Such a shame to have these limitations on a forum where as a community, our sales benefit us and the buyer and generate prestige for the forum itself too, it seems like a win-win to me.... but hey ho, I'm sure theres good reasons beyond my ken.

I think that's a restriction posed by paying advertisers. Say I was a competing 4x4 dealership who'd paid to have an ad put on the top banner. I'd be a bit disgruntled to see someone else doing it for free via the forums. This also applies to the differences in maker and maker plus, there would be no advantage in paying for maker plus, if maker could tout. It just seems odd to me that it's cheaper to sell shed loads of other peoples stuff than it is to sell hand crafted items. But then perhaps the issue is people are exploiting the standard membership.

Here's an example. I have to pay £30 to sell the items I create.
I could sell these on to a standard member. Lets say I make 10 sheaths and userA buys them all.
The next week he can put these back up for sale - all 10. But he pays half of what I do in order to do so. So in effect we're discouraging craftsmanship.

Seems odd to me.

That's why I figured a flat rate for any sale (or a tiered rate) would be fairer.

anyhoo.

M

[TurboGirl]

In that case, I understand the situation better re my signature and am in agreement with you on the makers issues... I wish you'd been the 'explainer' at the time, it makes sense the way you say it rather than a 'what part of NO don't you understand' kinda reply

[Samon]

what about the pay per ad like on BB? would that work? a 1-5% of the items worth as an advertisment charge?

[Kepis]

what about the pay per ad like on BB? would that work? a 1-5% of the items worth as an advertisment charge?

Problem with that is, the sheer time and man power it would take to administer it

[mountainm]

It could be doable if you pay a pound or two and have a sub that lasts, say - a day. You are then allowed to sell anything on that day. The subscription then expires and you can no longer post in that forum.

[FGYT]

what about the pay per ad like on BB? would that work? a 1-5% of the items worth as an advertisment charge?

No that's the honesty box and is not for makers or traders who do pay a higher membership but not expected to pay a per add donation after

also not for general subscribing members either just for registered members who dont contribute any money in annual subs and again its an honesty box not a fee

Here's an example. I have to pay £30 to sell the items I create.
I could sell these on to a standard member. Lets say I make 10 sheaths and userA buys them all.
The next week he can put these back up for sale - all 10. But he pays half of what I do in order to do so. So in effect we're discouraging craftsmanship.

Seems odd to me.

technically maybe ok but could be viewed as a trader buying and selling on new bulk goods .............not personal second hand used stuff which is what classifieds are for

but hopefully they would be pulled up and told its not really the right thing to do


no i dont think a member should be able to sig a link to there own selling shop for goods as a Maker std cant but again hopefully the Mods and admin would deal with that

being contacted and asked for a commission is fine for any level as far a I can tell

ATB

Duncan

[mountainm]

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/sea...archid=3750103

So this is allowed without having to be a maker?

[TurboGirl]

I think not, as it's disappeared

[mountainm]

I think not, as it's disappeared

The link doesn't work for you? Just an example of a full member exercising his right to sell stuff, lots of stuff, in bulk.

[FGYT]

http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/sea...archid=3750103

So this is allowed without having to be a maker?

its gone but

whether its allowed or not is entirely up to the Mods (and ultimately Tony this is his house) and if they miss one and your not happy point it out to them there is a report button

have a look tho the Full members thread when Tony was looking at changing the rules might be a good place to bring up stuff now the new levels have been around a little while

ATB

Duncan

[southey]

Wouldn't someone selling lots of items in bulk, over a protracted period over multiple threads be classed as a trader, rather than a maker, ?

[mountainm]

Wouldn't someone selling lots of items in bulk, over a protracted period over multiple threads be classed as a trader, rather than a maker, ?

Yes, what I meant - either way, not standard member.

[Tony]

it seems the main sticking point here is that some people are buying goods to resell on bcuk, goods that are not theirs? If that's the case report the posts and we'll deal with them, there will be plenty of people on here that can tell you we've pulled them up for this, some leave disgruntled and some just say fair enough.
There's the odd occasion where we give permission for someone to sell something on behalf of someone else, if they've not got permission for this then they should not sell goods they have purchased to resell or good for someone else.

members should not have links through to their own commercial sites, if there's a member that sells knives they should not link through to their site to sell them, links to own sites are intended to be links that are non commercial otherwise it's unfair on those that pa for the privilege.

TurboGirl, sorry that this was not explained to you in a better way. I've created a more commercial dealer section like the one on BB that will give a years subscription at a time, this is the sort of thing that would be appropriate for your commercial interests, are you interested in something like that?

It's good to keep in mind that we have traditionally stayed away from making the site overtly commercial and that this is a process for us to adjust to the wants of our members, I've not changed bcuk because of the wants of commercial interests, over the years we've had loads of companies that wanted us to change policies to allow them to trade on bcuk and we didn't because we valued retaining the nature of the place higher than potential income, we make changes now because they're needed due to demand. We'll listen to all of this feedback and we'll do our best to accommodate the needs/wants of the members.

I'll help anyone that supports bcuk, what I don't like is when companies/people want to use bcuk for their financial gain and think they should be allowed because it's a service for the members, it has to be a service for the members but when we're talking fair bcuk should gain somewhere as well, when there's 3 people involved it should be a win, win, win rather than a win win, tough luck you just supply the means for our win win... Now i'm not saying any of you are doing this but it's a consideration that we need to have, years ago we didn't so much but now we do.

If we need to adjust the makers/makers+ then we can do it, we'll open up the dealers/traders forum for those that want to deal and trade on bcuk, it will keep it all neat in one place and we'll make it a subscription and companies can write it off.

I'm open to any thoughts so feel free to keep them coming

[Hugo]

I'm going to own up as to not understanding the maker rules until now, having just read them properly it looks like I have flouted the rules by selling some scotch augers.
A big sorry from me for not acquainting myself about the selling rules, I will pull the others from sale.
The reason that I took up as a maker was because a few people approached me asking for knives that I had made, it seemed the best thing to do, also one of the other makers said to me it would be a good idea, he was right.

[Toddy]

Missed that one Hugo.........I thought it was a kind of Group Buy tbh.

Thank you for dealing with it properly

cheers,
Toddy

[TurboGirl]

I'd like to see the prices and rules for a dealers section, definately... I don't think it'd be a viable market for us tbh but to be able to have the web page link as a (neat and unobtrusive) signature would allow folk to have a look at our stock. I like your 'win:win:win' analogy very much and keeping the forum non-commercial is laudable

I think there's lots of folk who do trade in related goods which would be a huge benefit to all to involve- although a couple I've asked about trading have said that they like to keep their business and pleasure separate. I suppose it comes down to the difficulties in administering different rates of sale etc, a tough call and one of many we all present Tony and the long suffering admins with

[mountainm]

I'm going to own up as to not understanding the maker rules until now, having just read them properly it looks like I have flouted the rules by selling some scotch augers.
A big sorry from me for not acquainting myself about the selling rules, I will pull the others from sale.
The reason that I took up as a maker was because a few people approached me asking for knives that I had made, it seemed the best thing to do, also one of the other makers said to me it would be a good idea, he was right.

I hope you didn't think I was pointing the finger at you? Given you were a maker I thought (until it was clarified) you were within your rights too.

[Hugo]

Not at all Mike, no worries mate.
Funny thing is I always read the small print when buying things.

[Kepis]

I thought (until it was clarified) you were within your rights too.

So did I, cant see in all honesty if what Hugo did with the augers is any different to what other people do with stuff they buy in job lots and/or get from boot markets and then sell on in the Members Classified section?.

[southey]

So did I, cant see in all honesty if what Hugo did with the augers is any different to what other people do with stuff they buy in job lots and/or get from boot markets and then sell on in the Members Classified section?.

Yup! 100% agree with that, to me they are traders, not selling their own second hand stuff that they no longer use, bit some one going to a house clearance or being rag an bone man and selling the stuff on here, in my mind they should be A trader.

[Tony]

Yeah, I'd agree that really it's trader territory...

[BILLy]

Hello Ahjno,
Firstly Can I apologize for my error?
Having looked for my item for sale, I find that my post was deleted.
I have had no other correspondence regarding it.
I must be honest and say (until now) I have never read the rules on selling items as I don't consider myself a seller.
In the seven years I have been a member, this is only the first time I have sold an item I have made. So with that in mind although you have rules for sellers I don't consider myself a seller.
For the price I was selling the two items for, and the price it would cost me to subscribe to makers market It would not be worth subscribing to, this is why I don't consider being a maker.
Two items I have made in seven years classes me as a maker.
Please can you be so kind as to tell me where do I stand now? with answering the following:
I have one saw left that I have made; can I sell it on this site? If not I will put it on an auction site.
If the answer to #1 is yes, then under what section of the forum can I sell it?
If no, why.
Does my privilege of full member status be revoked?
What happens next?
I hope you don’t read this post in a negative manner; it is purely to make sure I don’t fall foul of your rules.
In my defence I was not deliberately trying to break any rules.
Thanks for your kind reply.
Bill