kayaking/canoe question

[Bushcraftsman]

this auction on ebay says

"Also needs buoyancy aids in each end (can use plastic gallon or 5 litre containers"

does the canoe NEED these or can it function without? whenever i've been in a canoe like this they have never had anything in the front or back of them

Cheers

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2610096774...8#ht_1138wt_93

[John Fenna]

It will function without - but it will be a pig to rescue when it sinks to the bottom of the lake/river/canal when you capsize (when - not if ...)

[Bushcraftsman]

oh right what can I do to prevent this...because other than that it seems ok doesn't it? dont know much about canoes you see. As you are one of the masters of DIY kit mr Fenna, what DIY Floatation devices would you suggest??

[John Fenna]

oh right what can I do to prevent this...because other than that it seems ok doesn't it? dont know much about canoes you see. As you are one of the masters of DIY kit mr Fenna, what DIY Floatation devices would you suggest??

You could always buy a copy of my book "A Basic Guide to making your own Open Canoe Accessories" available from me only
as to cheap floatation - chunks of polystyrene in a tough bag or old innertubes or sealed water bottles (5 litre types - I would use 2 each end) securely lashed in below the gunnel line - and I mean SECURELY - you do not want to lose your canoe forever on your first capsize!

[Bushcraftsman]

You could always buy a copy of my book "A Basic Guide to making your own Open Canoe Accessories" available from me only
as to cheap floatation - chunks of polystyrene in a tough bag or old innertubes or sealed water bottles (5 litre types - I would use 2 each end) securely lashed in below the gunnel line - and I mean SECURELY - you do not want to lose your canoe forever on your first capsize!

what is the gunnel line? and I take it your putting the floatation aids INSIDE the canoe, so how do you tie anything down inside the canoe? and no, definitely do not want to lose the canoe! that would not lead to a fun trip! I like the idea of polystyrene I have a lot of access to it from work so could I just fill two bags of it (about the size of a football for each one) and then shove them in the front and back of the canoe?

[Baldy-Old-Troll]

I think you've got John confused, the boat your looking at is a kayak, a canoe is open topped. If you buy this you could add flotation front and rear by either wedging large chunks of polystyrene between the top and bottom pushed as far into the ends as you can or you could add some form of inflatable in either end. The ad also states that the boat has no foot pegs, this will make it much harder to paddle properly, the pegs help you to brace yourself, and to produce more power when paddling .

Stuart.

[John Fenna]

Kayaks are NOT canoes - different beastie altogether ... and one I have not doings with at all!
"Kayaks are for getting wet in, canoes are for getting places in!"

Good luck with your boat - all paddle craft are good, but none so good as a CANOE!
:d

[Sappy]

Ideally you shouldnt need any added bouyancy compensaters in a kayak.

Once your in and have attached your spraydeck it should be air tight and the whole thing will be full of air.

Kayaks range in size to suit the weight of the individual. If you get one the right size for you you wont need to add bouyancy, if you take a lot of gear you can either get a bigger kayak to compensate for this or make it more bouyant, dont get a bigger kayak than you need as when you remove gear it'll be too bouyant and youll never stay upright.

In a kayak use polystyrene, no need to put it in plastic as there shoulx be no water in the vessel or you have a leak.

As for pegs ideally you need them as it is easier to steer.

Contrary to what john says you dont get wet in a yak, thats the whole point of it, if you coup it your stuff stays drymost of you stays dry. And if you do coup out theres no chance of losing your vessel because you dont get out.

[santaman2000]

...Contrary to what john says you dont get wet in a yak, thats the whole point of it, if you coup it your stuff stays drymost of you stays dry. And if you do coup out theres no chance of losing your vessel because you dont get out.

OL. In a canoe OR a kayak, if you're not getting wet, you're not pushing it far enough. They're made for running white-water. Maybe not originally, but now-a-days that's the most fun that can be had with your clothes on.

[Harvestman]

OL. In a canoe OR a kayak, if you're not getting wet, you're not pushing it far enough. They're made for running white-water. Maybe not originally, but now-a-days that's the most fun that can be had with your clothes on.

That's an opinion, and a valid one, but personaly speaking the canoe or kayak is there to keep me out of the water, because swimminbg is not what I set out to do, and I want to relax rather than push to the limits.

All good fun, either way.

[Bushcraftsman]

well unfortunately I bought this boat whilst out and about and didnt have time to read your posts and didnt reaise how important the pegs were...is there anything i can improvise or add into it to make it better? I have bought the kayak for 38 quid and its reasonably close to me unlike most of the others on ebay so i dont think i've done too badly but then again i dont know anything about them so again any advice would be great. polystyrene for the ends it is then. how much is needed?

[santaman2000]

That's an opinion, and a valid one, but personaly speaking the canoe or kayak is there to keep me out of the water, because swimminbg is not what I set out to do, and I want to relax rather than push to the limits.

All good fun, either way.

Yes it is fun either way. And I had hoped my post would have been seen as personal opinion (and a little good natured ribbing) If it didn't come across that way then I do apologize. All that said there are also different levels of white-water (with correspondingly varying levels of pushing it/adventure vs relaxing) My personal favorite is class 3 (probably because that was the level the river I grew up on was rated) Likewise the relaxation can be hampered by lack of current; the need to paddle for propulsion being more work than the ability to simply drift downstream paddling only to steer.

One of the real advantages of either a canoe or a kayak over other watercraft (and I have no personal experience with a kayak) is the ability to explore bays, inlets, tributaries, etc. that few other craft can navigate.

[Baldy-Old-Troll]

If you buy this boat you need to fit some form of bouyancy, it is an old fibreglass kayak and will sink if you capsize and it floods. If you capsize in open water with no bouyancy in the boat and fills with water you will end up with a situation called Cleopatras needle which is an absolute nightmare to recover from, the boat will end up vertical in the water and trying to empty it is no easy task, it will need someone else in another boat to assist( look up an x rescue). I would strongly suggest you either get some coaching or read up on kayaking, as some of the advice on forums is not worth trusting your life to.

Stuart.

Sorry bushcraftsman you post didn't show when I wrote this reply, you can buy pegs and their rails or you can bolt or glass wooden rails to either side. When you get the boat sit on the seat and bring your knees up under the deck on either side of the cockpit wherever your feet end up is where you need to set your pegs. If you go to UK rivers Guidebook and look at the almanac pages you will find most of the info you need.

[Sappy]

well unfortunately I bought this boat whilst out and about and didnt have time to read your posts and didnt reaise how important the pegs were...is there anything i can improvise or add into it to make it better? I have bought the kayak for 38 quid and its reasonably close to me unlike most of the others on ebay so i dont think i've done too badly but then again i dont know anything about them so again any advice would be great. polystyrene for the ends it is then. how much is needed?

Hey man.
I,m a kayak guy myself as you can probably tell, i used to teach kayaking to beginners, i used to compete in slalom kayak events, and still do stunt kayaking.

If you could tell me the dimentions of your vessel, it's weight,your weight the material your vssels made of and what you want to do with the vessel.

Most yaks are good, the fact you paid 38 quid for it shouldnt really matter to much.

Anyway i'd be happy to help through pm

[Sappy]

Also as bald old troll has said please seek good quality training before using you yak,these vessels are a lot more dangerous than canoes as you have to know how to get out if it coups( a canoe you just need to know how how to swim). In mozt circumstances its easy enough to get yourself upright without getting out but it takes good training to know how.

These are very dangerous vessels(i once couped in the seA, because of fhe power of the waves i was unable to get out)

as long as you have good training im happy to advise

[Bushcraftsman]

Sappy,

Thanks for offering your help, ill get back to you with all that info I'm going to pick up the kayak on monday so you'll have to wait till then, and then ill get back to you via PM.

Baldy old troll

Thanks for all the advice, ill look into everthing you've said and definitely start reading into kayaking more, what in particular should I be researching?

To either of you

how crucial are the pegs? would you get by without them or are they essential to the movement of the craft? also wouldn't bolting wooden rails from either side of the canoe provide means for water to get into the vessel?

Thanks!

[mrcharly]

If you use polystyrene for bouyancy, double wrap it in strong bin bags.

Bits of polystyrene get eaten by birds, stick in their crop and kill them.

[Andy BB]

Another option is to use closed-cell expanding foam - you can get it in tins, and squirt it in the areas to be "bouyancied". However, do take care with this - I've seen yacht-decks lifted by an over-exuberant use of this stuff!

[John Fenna]

Another option is to use closed-cell expanding foam - you can get it in tins, and squirt it in the areas to be "bouyancied". However, do take care with this - I've seen yacht-decks lifted by an over-exuberant use of this stuff!

I would be wary of this stuff - I have seen examples of the foam becoming waterlogged overtime - and it is next to impossible to remove from the ends of Kayaks!

[Andy BB]

I would be wary of this stuff - I have seen examples of the foam becoming waterlogged overtime - and it is next to impossible to remove from the ends of Kayaks!

So have I, but invariably it was because they didn't use closed-cell foam. However, having chipped out large quantities from a Wharram, I can concur that it is a pain to remove!

[Baldy-Old-Troll]

Harvestman, think of the pegs like the pedals on a bike you can roll down a track without them but you have much more control and can apply more power with them. Another way to look at it is that you sit in a canoe, but you wear a kayak, with your feet on the pegs and your knees braced under the deck you should be able to move the boat using only your hips. The boat should be fitted to you so that you remain in contact with it no matter what angle it is at. Another comparison would be trying to drive round a racetrack at speed in a car with a vinyl bench seat compared to another with bucket seats and full harnesses, its all about control. As for the footpegs if you drill the hull you simply seal around the bolts with sikaflex , most kayaks have their footpegs bolted in place.

[BushrangerCZ]

When capsized, do eskymo turn... if you can´t do it, leave the kayak, and never turn it back when capsized (push it to the river/lake bank as it is) or all the air will dissapear and then you need your buyoancy aids.
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