Alpkit
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 60

Thread: Some food for thought...

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Germany
    Posts
    35

    Default Some food for thought...

    Hey guys,

    came across this post...

    What do you think of it?

    http://woodtrekker.blogspot.de/2012/...sed-point.html

    Let me start out by saying that for this post I will be using the term “bushcraft”, not in the way that I ordinarily do to designate wilderness skills, but rather in the way it is usually used these days, to designate the activity itself.

    I have to be honest, when I first started my blog, I wanted to make it clear that I am not a pure bushcrafter as I saw people use the term. I am a mix of a lot of things. I don’t pretend to live off the land. I carry what I need, and have nothing against technology. Once I started writing however, I found myself pulled in the direction of what is typically called “bushcraft”, largely because I found the prospect of using natural resources rather than gear enticing. Because of that, I joined all the forums, started going to meetings, and tried to learn what bushcraft is really about. What I write about here comes from those experiences.
    Well, I quickly became disillusioned with “bushcraft”. It hit me at one point last year when I realized that I was going into the woods almost every weekend, practicing skills, and then coming home, while the whole time rarely being more than an hour from the road. It struck me that I was practicing and preparing for some event that never seemed to come. Yes, it’s fun practicing to start a fire using different methods, but what was the point if I just went home afterward. I remember spending a lot more time in the backwoods before this “bushcraft” thing.
    Then I started looking around and what I saw with other bushcrafters seemed to follow the same pattern. We would sit around a camp fire, not too far away from the road, split a stick or two with the latest $500 knife we got, cook some bacon and then exchange stories. I can not recall a single instance where someone said something along the lines of “Let me tell you about this trip I did crossing the Sierras with just an axe and a blanket”. The stories were always about who can light a fire the fastest, or has the best knife, or can make a fire from one stick, etc, etc.
    I started wondering, what’s the point? As bushcrafters we spent a lot of time talking about living off the land, thriving in nature, relying on the resources around us, and so on. We naturally stick up our noses at those people who are “just backpacking”. After all, they are just passing through nature, while we have this deep understanding that allows us to live in harmony with it.
    The reality however did not match our words. Sure, we can light a fire with a bow drill while the average backpacker can’t. However, I would look at backpackers who did extraordinary things in the woods under extreme conditions, climbing mountains and crossing forests, while we sat around the campfire talking about from where each of our wool blankets was imported. We seemed to prepare for all these extraordinary trips and adventures that those “mere backpackers” were doing; we talked about how much better we would be at it because of all our knowledge; but the trips never came.
    This made me question everything I was doing. I decided to stop practicing and start doing. It seemed that we were all practicing these skills with the only end goal of impressing the other people at the next meeting. We had gathered all this knowledge that we never used other than to show others that we had it.
    In the pursuit of skills, I had lost the spirit of adventure that originally drew me to the woods. I didn’t start this so I can barbeque in a camp site, carve spoons, or coordinate my wardrobe, so it looks more “authentic”. I got into it because I wanted to be like the explorers of old; travel through the woods; living with the gear I had on my back; discovering places I had never seen. I love the feeling of freedom when I know I can go wherever I want in the forest with the gear I have on my back. What I love even more than that however is actually doing it.
    What good were any of those skills, if they were never used to support any meaningful experience in the woods? What good is having all that knowledge if someone else without it is doing more backwoods travel than I am? What good is being self sufficient in nature if we are always in sight of our cars?
    There is no reason why bushcraft can not be used differently. For some reason, at least from what I have seen, it is not utilized in that way at the moment. And to be fair, there is no need for it to be anything other than what it already is; it just wasn’t what first inspired me to go into the woods.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Shuffling about in the Fourth Dimension
    Posts
    7,958

    Default

    He's got some very good points.

    The one thing I would disagree on is that I don't think people look down on back packers or their like.

    Many here are back packers while others have different interests. One of the things I love about this place is the diversity of people you find here.
    Wayland

    _ _ _Wayland's World____________ Living a life less ordinary.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    S. Lanarkshire
    Posts
    21,648

    Default

    I think he misses the point of it from our point of view on forums and meet ups..........this place/forum/site is a social networking place. What we do out there is entirely up to ourselves and we all have different (if to a relatively common skillset) interests, and the 'bushcraft' stuff is relevant to all of them

    Lots of us walk, canoe, camp, forage, create, craft, are seasonally active and seasonally challenged.
    For most the bushcraft stuff in someways enriches even our daily lives, not just the leisure time.

    It's a very broad kirk; if the individual chooses to limit his/her attendance that's up to them
    Many are totally at ease meeting up with strangers in the woods (see Man of Tanith's quote ) while others openly acknowledge that that's their own idea of hell.

    What I'm trying to say is that it's what you make of it, not what others make you accept.

    cheers,
    Toddy
    You are never too old to have a happy childhood.
    Muddy is a state of happiness

  4. #4

    Default

    Hahaha seems pretty much spot on to me apart from as you say looking down on backpackers and peeps who actually do rough it for a living or out of necessity, there is alot of inherant snobbery though, same as with most other 'fringe', 'out of the ordinary', 'unusual pursuits', I've often been caving with guys sporting £2000 Nikons or Canons, their pics are no better and they whinge like babies when the cameras get smashed or drowned? Go figure!

    Who has got the best knife? One that does the job or one that's made from Damask steel and Ironwood and costs £500? Does a hammock need to cost £200, a tent £1000, a sleeping bag the same?


    Si

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Evesham Marina
    Posts
    4,057

    Default

    i agree with that but i do think he msises the point that most folk are tied down with families etc. and so bushcraft is a cover for a social getaway, reliving pastimes, or a sort of therapy for those who are anchored but can still make the small time tae do something they love.

    as for the young ones like me with little responsibilities and ties, we can bugger off and explore without excuses

    Hamish
    Hamish Half-Goat Odinson

    Half-Goat Leatherwork

    Nothing Ventured, nothing gained.
    Njal's Saga

  6. #6

    Default

    Meh, not just you young uns can bugger off and enjoy yourselves, I have no ties as such and I'm almost 'middle aged' lmao depending on how long one plans to live for


    Si

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Evesham Marina
    Posts
    4,057

    Default

    well yeah i guess age has nothing to do with it. if you have no ties with family etc then you should certainly be off the beaten path living what youv learnt i reckon
    Hamish Half-Goat Odinson

    Half-Goat Leatherwork

    Nothing Ventured, nothing gained.
    Njal's Saga

  8. #8

    Default

    It's the only reason I got away with travelling the country exploring old abandoned buildings, caves, mines and the like. Couldn't see any sane Mrs letting me disappear for weeks or months at a time to go and photograph urban decay or forgotten industrial sites.


    Si

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Wiltshire
    Posts
    7,024

    Default

    I have no ties and can waste my time being a responsible student...

  10. #10

    Default

    Hahaha classic, responsible & student in the same sentence I love it!


    Si

  11. #11
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Pontypool, Wales, Uk
    Posts
    4,671
    Blog Entries
    2

    Default

    If you are spending your time sneering at backpackers you have entirely missed the point.

    Bushcraft is a hobby for most of us. Like sports, or playing chess, or shopping, we do it because it gives us pleasure. There's no standard that we have to live up to. Living off the land or roughing it across country are options, not requirements.
    Stupidity got us into this mess. Why can't it get us out?

  12. #12

    Default

    If it's classed as a hobby that's all good, but there are those here and on other forums who purport to know the ins and outs of an Oak trees butt yet only spend the odd weekend in the woods or a week ot two at a 'bushmoot' perhaps, with all the latest gear from tent to socks, is it not missing the point a bit to hit the local woods with £2000 of equipment for a weekend and call yourself a bushcrafter?

    I dunno, it just seems to me that money is the necessary key to being in with the incrowd, which isn't what my experience of bushcraft as it's now known is all about...

    I think the guy has it pretty much spot on and is just being honest.


    Si

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    S. Lanarkshire
    Posts
    21,648

    Default

    Eh, no.

    Kit's fun, whether it's a £5 swiss army stove or a modded £3 drainer from Ikea or a £70 ti set up. Folks don't judge on your kit, in fact they're more interested to see what you have, or have made, than what you spent on it.

    Besides, kit's only part of the whole thing. Doing stuff, any kind of relevant stuff, is the best bit.

    £2k of equipment ? Fine, if you want, fine if you don't. If your hobby and personal financial situation allows, do as you choose, it's not my place to tell you that you're not being a 'proper' bushcrafter, anymore than it is my place to proscribe the activities that you participate in.

    That said, I have to say that I have seen some brilliant set ups that were totally wombled, with great success total outlay virtually nought, but satisfaction = priceless

    I think we could pay a little more heed to seasonality, and maybe widen the base of our craft skills, to good effect though.

    cheers,
    Toddy
    You are never too old to have a happy childhood.
    Muddy is a state of happiness

  14. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Toddy View Post
    Eh, no.

    Kit's fun, whether it's a £5 swiss army stove or a modded £3 drainer from Ikea or a £70 ti set up. Folks don't judge on your kit, in fact they're more interested to see what you have, or have made, than what you spent on it.
    Hehehe, yeah.


    SI

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Sunny Wales!
    Posts
    2,294

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Urban X View Post
    Does a hammock need to cost £200, a sleeping bag the same?Si
    But I sleep so much better than the rif-raff on the floor

    I personally spend a little bit more as I know it will last, does as intended and can/will be passed onto the kid one day.
    The one thing you will find in this hobby is lightening your kit starts to cost.

    I've spent money in every pass time, I don't see why this one should be any different. It gives me great pleasure.
    This is my firestick... There are many like it, but this one is mine.

  16. #16

    Default

    Good for you, good for you.

    I imagine lightening the load does cost, considerably in some cases, but all good for those 20k treks into the wilderness eh.

    Cool


    Si

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2010
    Location
    Sunny Wales!
    Posts
    2,294

    Default

    5 or 6 miles does me... I'm into wild camping, not hillwalking.

    Last time I checked, this is a bushcraft site (with quite a few hill-walkers too)
    This is my firestick... There are many like it, but this one is mine.

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Hamilton NZ
    Posts
    2,259

    Default

    I think that the blog post has a lot of good points.

    I used to hold the view that all of the kit and skills training and practice, forum discussions etc had to lead to something... Let's say you go and equip yourself for temperate woodland, go and do a few courses and then get out for some weekends practicing the skills you have learnt etc... You're aiming for a trip or journey somewhere to implement those skills etc hiking across the Hardangervidda or something ...

    My view has changed in that for some (not all) the: kit, skills acquisition, practice etc is the end journey and TBH there is nothing wrong with that. "Bushcraft" has become a catch all moniker that covers a diverse range of topics + skills etc.

    So it seems spending time tracking with the San Bushmen is as much 'bushcraft' as sitting 200m from the car drinking a few tinnies with your mates around a camp fire wearing a Swanndri...

    I have thought that perhaps as "Bushcraft" encompasses more it actually means less.

    In reality none of this really matters. Someone less verbose than me succinctly said that we don't need "bushcraft" to live our lives it's basically just a hobby.

    I think this view is pretty accurate. I think some folk are wrapped pretty tight about the whole thing but forums etc actually feed that to a degree being relatively benign, faceless etc...

    Folk do what they do.
    Last edited by johnboy; 28-04-2012 at 03:32.
    Ka tū te ihiihi
    Ka tū te wanawana
    Ki runga ki te rangi e tū iho nei, tū iho nei, hī!

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    teesside
    Posts
    4,788

    Default

    Yes he has a point but who is he to tell me what I can and can't do and what kit I take into the wilderness. At the end of the day we are one big family who came together because of our love of nature and the ability to live in it and be happy there. Not to go out on mass adventures and what not cos otherwise it would be called adventurecraft

    So with this in mind if I want to sit round a fire with my good buds which some of you most defiantly are why can't I and sod any one else's opinion cos well I am not doing anything illegal and I am not hurting anyone so why not. And in regards money all I will say is

    He who pays make is choice

    Drew

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Hamilton NZ
    Posts
    2,259

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by drewdunnrespect View Post
    Yes he has a point but who is he to tell me what I can and can't do and what kit I take into the wilderness.
    The guy who posted the blog is not telling you what to do. He's just offering his opinion and viewpoint on his blog. Take it or leave it..

    IMHO
    Last edited by johnboy; 28-04-2012 at 03:44.
    Ka tū te ihiihi
    Ka tū te wanawana
    Ki runga ki te rangi e tū iho nei, tū iho nei, hī!

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    south wales
    Posts
    9,918

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by drewdunnrespect View Post
    Yes he has a point but who is he to tell me what I can and can't do and what kit I take into the wilderness. At the end of the day we are one big family who came together because of our love of nature and the ability to live in it and be happy there. Not to go out on mass adventures and what not cos otherwise it would be called adventurecraft

    So with this in mind if I want to sit round a fire with my good buds which some of you most defiantly are why can't I and sod any one else's opinion cos well I am not doing anything illegal and I am not hurting anyone so why not. And in regards money all I will say is

    He who pays make is choice

    Drew
    He's not told you what you can or can't take, or what you can or can't do, his blog is just a reflection of his thoughts and observations. Its a good blog with many valid posts and well worth reading through them all.

    A friend will come and help you move home, a true friend will come and help you move a body
    Sent from my i7 3770K PC, 12gb ram
    South Wales UK


  22. #22
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    teesside
    Posts
    4,788

    Default

    Okay well I don't understand the point he is making if that's the case

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Hamilton NZ
    Posts
    2,259

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by drewdunnrespect View Post
    Okay well I don't understand the point he is making if that's the case
    The blog post makes a number of points but the salient one for me is that

    In the pursuit of skills, I had lost the spirit of adventure that originally drew me to the woods. I didn’t start this so I can barbeque in a camp site, carve spoons, or coordinate my wardrobe, so it looks more “authentic”. I got into it because I wanted to be like the explorers of old; travel through the woods; living with the gear I had on my back; discovering places I had never seen.
    Ka tū te ihiihi
    Ka tū te wanawana
    Ki runga ki te rangi e tū iho nei, tū iho nei, hī!

  24. #24

    Default

    He does make some points I relate to, but for me, I go to the woods like other people go to the pub. The beer's cheaper, the company's often better and I find you get such dirty looks when you start making fires in pubs! Lol The "skills" I practise are more to pass the time than to make me in to Mr Survivor. Much like in the pub people play pool or darts with no intension of going pro. Having said that, I'm the years to come as the children get older and I get more free time I would like to venture further and for longer, and then what I've practiced may well come in handy even if it just means I can carry less kit.

    But ultimately, if it makes you happy and doesn't hurt anyone else, who cares what you get up to!

    Cheers

    Mat

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Gloucestershire
    Posts
    1,018

    Default

    He raises some really good and valid points, as do all the other contributors here. It reckon that it's the differing perceptions of bushcraft that present the main bone of contention. For the blogger (perhaps a bushcraft purist?), he seems disappointed by what he sees as the car camping brigade who simply prefer to pitch their shelters in the woods; but, as has been said, 'bushcraft' is a "broad kirk" in which everyone brings and does what they can and will in the woods, irrespective of their kit and the investment they made in that.

    The ideal, perhaps, is that we should all "go wherever (we) want in the forest with the gear (we have) on (our) backs" but surely any interest in and engagement with the outdoors should be encouraged, even if you are only a few yards from your vehicle? For a good number, the bushcraft that they currently practise does take them to places they have never seen, does give them that sense of freedom and does allow them to live with the gear they carry in their (cavernous) packs.

    Yes, there are a good number of valid points in the blog that will make me reassess my own practise of 'bushcraft'. It is an interesting personal reflection but it is not a call to arms to all bushcraft fundamentalists to get angry with those who might be seen as mere dabblers. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who makes the effort to get out and enjoy the woods or the outdoors in all its myriad guises, should be championed rather than reviled.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Shuffling about in the Fourth Dimension
    Posts
    7,958

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmy Bojangles View Post
    Snip> I go to the woods like other people go to the pub. The beer's cheaper, the company's often better and I find you get such dirty looks when you start making fires in pubs! <Snip
    He He.. How true.

    I hate hotels, I don't like guest houses much more. When I travel around either for work or my photography I'd rather camp out or even sleep in my van at times. I just like that independence I suppose.

    I used to backpack more than I do now, truth is I suppose I'm getting older and I'm happy to base camp and explore an area without it all on my back these days.

    I thoroughly enjoyed my recent trip to Norway but more for the chance to broaden my experience than for all the yomping about.

    I do see learning as a means to expand the possibilities of what I can achieve, but it has more to do with being comfortable outdoors than being able to carry a pack 20 miles a day for me.
    Wayland

    _ _ _Wayland's World____________ Living a life less ordinary.

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    your house!
    Posts
    10,938

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by johnboy View Post
    The blog post makes a number of points but the salient one for me is that

    In the pursuit of skills, I had lost the spirit of adventure that originally drew me to the woods. I didn’t start this so I can barbeque in a camp site, carve spoons, or coordinate my wardrobe, so it looks more “authentic”. I got into it because I wanted to be like the explorers of old; travel through the woods; living with the gear I had on my back; discovering places I had never seen.
    YAY! I like that one, I wonder if Ross (the blogger and a member here) is aware of our chat about his blog, Its a very good blog indeed!

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    hampshire
    Posts
    3,305

    Default

    The skills 'bushcrafters' practice are in fact a kind of living history re enactment. Most are essential living skills from prior to the industrial revolution. Making a fire is an essential living skill that was in regular use in every house up until about 40 or 50 years ago. The current generation have no idea what it is like to wake up in a house that has no central heating and have ice on the inside of the windows. This was commonplace in my childhood but has been lost in less than a generation.
    I love central heating but it is reliant on the gas supply, if it runs out I have more skills than the average 'sit on my jacksee and watch TV in my warm house' kind of bloke so I can do something about it. But, I do enjoy the social interaction of sitting around a campfire with a group of guys I just met, downing tinnies and no electronics in sight.
    Dont thank me, its what I do.

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Athens, Greece
    Posts
    1,015

    Default

    I think people get to hung up on words and labels.

    End of the day everyone here has a passion for the outdoors THAT's why i'm here.


    That's really what makes this forum better than the others i've looked at.
    We have canoeists, hikers, backpackers, foragers, hammock dwellers, tent dwellers, there are folks that like to make things rather than buy things and other folks that buy things rather than make things, then there are those at varying degrees of each.

    I love reading about these foraging reports, personally i don't forage but i do enjoy learning.
    I love reading the reports on journeys, from a trip to the local woods through to the trips to Norway.
    I am astonished by the skills that some on here have with wood, steel, leather etc.


    There is a certain amount of snobbery here no doubt.
    Some folks seem to think that if you don't wear wool and make your own clothes that your less entitled to enjoy the outdoors, but that's their problem not the forums and these people are few and far between.


    End of the day we are all here because we love the outdoors.
    I don't honestly see as it makes any difference if we wear different clothes, start fires a different, as long as we enjoy it who cares what anyone else thinks.

    and that IMO is where the writer went wrong.
    If he enjoyed hiking more than car camping then why would he choose to do it over something he loves, makes no sense to me.



    Cheers
    Mark

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    south wales
    Posts
    9,918

    Default

    Ross does the car/base camping and the hiking IIRC

    Bushwaker Bob said (snippet) "The skills 'bushcrafters' practice are in fact a kind of living history re enactment" That very statement does show how this forum has changed over the last six years or so. I said similar years ago and got a real verbal hammering off some folk here, nonetheless its very true however I believe that the shortage of space in the UK, no wilderness/bush in forest terms does restrict obviously just how far you can hike and by way of compensation the base camping/uniform/spoon carving has grown and nothing wrong in that.

    Really when you look at some meets here where there is instruction in fire lighting, plant I.D. et al they are to all intent and purpose reminicent of the Boy Scout camps I attended as a child, the main difference being that the majority in attendance are adult and of course the uniform is different

    Not having a pop, just my observations, the main thing is to get out and enjoy yourself whether you be 'Buscrafting' or glamping; the end result should be the same, i.e. time spent outdoors in good company if in a group or just chilling out if on a solo trip.

    A friend will come and help you move home, a true friend will come and help you move a body
    Sent from my i7 3770K PC, 12gb ram
    South Wales UK


Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •