So did anyone else feel the boom

[sapper1]

F22, F35, F15 nice planes...Just that as they are US planes they probably won't work under 10,000ft

And british pilots think 100 feet is high altitude flying.I was on Sailsbury plain once and was underneath a couple of plane doing nap of the earth flying.You have to see it to believe it can be done that low.I swear if the landing gear was down they would have been driving not flying.

[santaman2000]

F22, F35, F15 nice planes...Just that as they are US planes they probably won't work under 10,000ft

Yep. That's the philosophy for fighter pilots: "No medals under 30,000 ft. and no promotions below 10,000 ft."

But oddly the F111 was/is still the only aircraft (fighter aircraft anyway) capable of flying tree level at mach 2.

[Bazzworx]

Found out today that it was a chap I know whos helicopter caused the alarm, he was flying back from Aintree to Buckland Newton when his transponder became faulty and sent out the distress message. He was back home having dinner when the MOD phoned him asking where he and his chopper were. For those interested it was a Westland Gazelle.

[789987]

realistically how effective are fighter planes going to be above the urban sprawl that is london? what are they actually going to do? anything that gets shot down will destroy whatever is unfortunate enough to be underneath it at the time.

distinct element of fantasy about the whole affair

[BillyBlade]

The fighter aircraft are there to tackle the issue long before anything gets to the urban sprawl. Dont forget things happen very quickly at altitude. It's not the first time I've looked at London from the south coast as I'm running the checklist.

Regards whats supersonic at the treetops. Aardvark will do 1.2mach, not 2, though it's not, and never has been, a fighter. It simply got the 'F' desig as it was born from the debacle that was TFX and it carried the funding over. It has never operationally been a fighter, always a mud mover. The cancelled B desig was capable of carrying the Phoenix missile, but that aircraft was cancelled. We all know where that missile and the radar that guided it went though, so that worked out ok in the end.

If we're bending the rules a little, the F3 Tornado (pre restrictions) would shuffle away from the 'vark at treetop height on full chat. Mate who was a backseater on one tells substantiated claims of serious speeds when clean. There is a small, small club out there (that he is not a member of) that have claim on four digit IAS at oil rig height over the sea.

However, considering the 111 first got air under it's bum in '64/'65? and the F3 is a child of the 80's, kudos to the team at NASA that sorted out the inlets on the 111 and made it the aircraft it became.

[Bazzworx]

They will intercept you way before London, as a hot air balloon pilot we have been given the restricted airspace maps for London and Portland they reach far and wide. If you enter the air space without permission you will be greeted by either a Puma helicopter or a Typhoon if you don't respond to them you WILL be shot down, they will first do a fly by, then release flares with possibly a 'follow me' sign if its the Puma. Then if you still do not respond you will be shot down. Just found this link http://www.rin.org.uk/Uploadedpdfs/I...1220-web-2.pdf

[wingstoo]

I guess it depends if the "target" is actually over the city at the time, the idea is to act as a deterant to any group who might think about an arial attack on either the capital or any other place.


Having aircraft in the air isn't just about eliminating targets by hopefully preventing them trying in the first place.


Better to have and not need, than to need and not have.

[sapper1]

I doesn't matter where the shot down plane lands,just as long as it's not where they were aiming to land.The headline stating a plane was shot down is better than the one that reads plane hits target.

[nuggets]

I hope there ain,t going to be a fuel strike before the olympics !! Can,t see any of them aircraft going any where with out fuel !!

[789987]

im waiting for the government to introduce a "battle terror tax". will have more support than the fuel duties. especially if theres military hardware named in the advert.

[wingstoo]

Not many planes using Texaco for fueling up though.

Mind you the new stealth planes are pretty good

[nuggets]

Im still trying to work out why we have to live in fear of these threats !! Why have we upset these people to make them angry in the first place ???

[santaman2000]

The fighter aircraft are there to tackle the issue long before anything gets to the urban sprawl. Dont forget things happen very quickly at altitude. It's not the first time I've looked at London from the south coast as I'm running the checklist.

Regards whats supersonic at the treetops. Aardvark will do 1.2mach, not 2, though it's not, and never has been, a fighter...

When I was working on them in the late 70s they were burning over mach 2 (don't really know what they were advertised as capable) They would occassionally do a high mach left turn and fly into their own bullets; the 20mm was mounted under the left wing (when it carried a gun) and it would fly in front of it's own bullets on a left turn. I used to have to patch those holes.

You're quite right about NASA though. They used it as a chase plane for other experimental craft. As did AF Logistics command when developing the B1.

You're also right about it not being used as a fighter per se. But it was always asigned to TAC nonetheless and the pilots always had a fighter pilot mentality.

[ged]

Im still trying to work out why we have to live in fear of these threats !! Why have we upset these people to make them angry in the first place ???

Well we don't live in fear, at least I don't. I've got a better chance of winning the lottery than of being blown up by terrorists.

Read some history. For example next time somebody mentions our special forces, ask what they did in Oman.

[nuggets]

so what did `our ` special forces do in oman ?? And why arn,t you in charge of the RAF ?? and why is the british government spending millions of pounds replacing peoples windows and flying jets out in all weathers to protect the capital against `terrorist` attacks during the olympic games ?? History is being made a we speak !! but why do we have to go to these measure,s ??? who have we upset and why ??

[Tengu]

Mr Nobody.

(A gentleman who historicaly has been responsible for a great many fastinating things...He seldom gets mentioned in the history books however.)

[ged]

so what did `our ` special forces do in oman ?? ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Mirbat

who have we upset and why ??

Just about everybody, I think. Call it Imperialism.

Victoria ruled the largest empire on the planet. Military power made that possible. That's why we're an affluent nation, and that's what made us so many enemies.

But this discussion must stop here; history is OK, but the BCUK rules don't permit political discussions.

[santaman2000]

...Read some history. For example next time somebody mentions our special forces, ask what they did in Oman.

They cain't tell you. Well, they could tell you, but they'd have to kill you.

[BillyBlade]

When I was working on them in the late 70s they were burning over mach 2 (don't really know what they were advertised as capable) They would occassionally do a high mach left turn and fly into their own bullets; the 20mm was mounted under the left wing (when it carried a gun) and it would fly in front of it's own bullets on a left turn. I used to have to patch those holes.

You're quite right about NASA though. They used it as a chase plane for other experimental craft. As did AF Logistics command when developing the B1.

You're also right about it not being used as a fighter per se. But it was always asigned to TAC nonetheless and the pilots always had a fighter pilot mentality.

Your absolutely right about the mach 2 part, but only at altitude. She can do it up high with ease, but down low, 1.2 is where the 'vark tops out.

That was still world beating for many a year however, no mean feat for an elderly lady such as her. She sat at the top of that tree for over 25 years.

With the inlets I was referring to the work NASA did in the 60's on the design to stop compressor surges and stalls. Something the 111 was known and feared for. Doing a low level bunt or a high alpha pitch up meant big trouble before the redesign. It's thought to have contributed the aircrafts initially very poor safety record. Ironic, seeing as she eventually went on to become a very safe aircraft indeed once they ironed the bugs out and sorted out the quality issues on the welding - the first two aircraft operationally used in Vietnam were lost, thought eventually to be due to fin detachment through welding fatigue.

The crews I met who flew her loved her though, and felt that when her time did eventually come, as a spiritual successor, then the B1 is probably the closet out there. I had some very good times with the B1 crews in Diego Garcia (good lads even if they cant drink worth a damn) and those guys really did like to put the shoes to it low down under the radar.

Happy times those. Glad I had them.

[santaman2000]

Your absolutely right about the mach 2 part, but only at altitude. She can do it up high with ease, but down low, 1.2 is where the 'vark tops out.

That was still world beating for many a year however, no mean feat for an elderly lady such as her. She sat at the top of that tree for over 25 years.

With the inlets I was referring to the work NASA did in the 60's on the design to stop compressor surges and stalls. Something the 111 was known and feared for. Doing a low level bunt or a high alpha pitch up meant big trouble before the redesign. It's thought to have contributed the aircrafts initially very poor safety record. Ironic, seeing as she eventually went on to become a very safe aircraft indeed once they ironed the bugs out and sorted out the quality issues on the welding - the first two aircraft operationally used in Vietnam were lost, thought eventually to be due to fin detachment through welding fatigue.

The crews I met who flew her loved her though, and felt that when her time did eventually come, as a spiritual successor, then the B1 is probably the closet out there. I had some very good times with the B1 crews in Diego Garcia (good lads even if they cant drink worth a damn) and those guys really did like to put the shoes to it low down under the radar.

Happy times those. Glad I had them.

We were always taught that the initial poor safety record (when burning mach at treetop) was due to pilot error. that being that the pilots would get nervous watching approaching terrain (i.e. mountains or hills) and would try to fly the plane manually. Unfortunately there was a lag between when they disengaged the TFR and the plane allowed manual control input. Supposedly once they learned to trust the TFR and keep their hands off the controls, the safety record went up. However I enlisted in 1976 so by then there's no telling how much the reality of the Vietnam record had been skewed.

And yeah I understand the memories. I enjoyed my AF time too. Never got to Diego Garcia though. All my overseas time was either in Europe or SE Asian mainland.

[ged]

They cain't tell you. Well, they could tell you, but they'd have to kill you.

Um, some of 'em wrote books about it. Of course they may just have been making it all up.

[wattsy]

Makes sense. Churlish pilots though. The last lot used to fly stunts over the paddocks when we waved to them


Fly Past by British Red, on Flickr


Fly Past by British Red, on Flickr

i remember walking home from school in the late 90's and a red arrow flew down the main road at about 150 feet, then a couple of years back there was a hurricane doing mock strafe runs over greetwell hollow. living in lincs does have its advantages

[santaman2000]

Um, some of 'em wrote books about it. Of course they may just have been making it all up.

LOL. Obviously I was being facetious; but only half so. I doubt that they were "making it all up." But I'm fairly sure they didn't (couldn't) tell the whole story either.