"I live without cash – and I manage just fine "

[blacktimberwolf]

The system we have is far from perfect, but capitalism if thought through works well.
Our problems are not with capitalism

Capitalism is built upon financial speculation & exploitation..We have seen during the past few years just how fragile the foundations of this system are & the only way we can recover from the situation, or so we are told, is more growth..i.e. people spending more money buying things thus using the worlds resources even quicker. It's a very short term solution. Countries whos civilisation is based upon spending & buying & threatens to topple over when there is a slow down of this consumerism, doesn't sound like a system that works well to me.
Manufacterers now build things that can't be repaired of have inbuilt weaknesses, particually computers & mobile phones, in an attempt to keep sales moving so when one breaks you have to buy a new one. The quantity of resources,including water, needed to make these things is astounding yet only the short term turnover of these products & share holder bonuses matter, make hay while the sun shines & to hell with the consequencies. that is capitalism.

[cbr6fs]

Society isn't going to break down because of this guy, and everyone could live life like this guy if they wanted, the fact that they don't means that most of us prefer more security.

If everyone lived like this guy, no-one would be able to live like this guy - including him!

Andy,

That's exactly the point of my post.
EVERYONE has the choice to live like this guy, yet very few do.

So the "threat" to society is dramatically over exaggerated.

[cbr6fs]

Capitalism is built upon financial speculation & exploitation..We have seen during the past few years just how fragile the foundations of this system are & the only way we can recover from the situation, or so we are told, is more growth..i.e. people spending more money buying things thus using the worlds resources even quicker. It's a very short term solution. Countries whos civilisation is based upon spending & buying & threatens to topple over when there is a slow down of this consumerism, doesn't sound like a system that works well to me.
Manufacterers now build things that can't be repaired of have inbuilt weaknesses, particually computers & mobile phones, in an attempt to keep sales moving so when one breaks you have to buy a new one. The quantity of resources,including water, needed to make these things is astounding yet only the short term turnover of these products & share holder bonuses matter, make hay while the sun shines & to hell with the consequencies. that is capitalism.

That's your definition of capitalism, it's not mine.

It's also FULL of inaccuracies, "inbuilt weaknesses" come on we are talking as mentally stable adults here.
I have an old mobile phone that a mate of mine helped design i can tell you 100% that if he'd designed in a "weakness" he would have an extremely short career.

I think you are getting into the realm of conspiracy theories here, which if firstly something i believe is a load of rubbish and secondly is VERY far off topic.

[cbr6fs]

Ohhh BTW the phone is 9 years old and still worked last week

[Adze]

Society isn't going to break down because of this guy, and everyone could live life like this guy if they wanted, the fact that they don't means that most of us prefer more security.

If everyone lived like this guy, no-one would be able to live like this guy - including him!

Daily Mail or the Express Andy?

[blacktimberwolf]

That's your definition of capitalism, it's not mine.

It's also FULL of inaccuracies, "inbuilt weaknesses" come on we are talking as mentally stable adults here.
I have an old mobile phone that a mate of mine helped design i can tell you 100% that if he'd designed in a "weakness" he would have an extremely short career.

I think you are getting into the realm of conspiracy theories here, which if firstly something i believe is a load of rubbish and secondly is VERY far off topic.

I did say 'now'.........laptops can longer be opened to repair or change the keyboards, i phones for example, have fragile screens & connections that easily come away, You can claim that electrical products made today are as solid & reliable as they were several years ago but user feedback proves otherwise.
You're right though completely off topic..sorry.

[Adze]

laptops can longer be opened to repair or change the keyboards

Yes they can... I do it more or less every day. Granted it's not as obvious how they come to pieces as it used to be, but that's the trend for form over function hiding screw heads and favouring plasting clips instead of a more bolt together approach.

Just as 1930's blacksmith technology no longer repairs modern cars very well, neither does 1990's tooling for laptops. One moves with the times or retrains to do summat else

Actually the biggest reason for lack of reliability is the move away from heavy metal solders - modern zero lead solder has a tendency to re-form a crystaline structure over time which isn't anything like as good at conducting high frequencies, so components fail earlier. This was a move looked upon with great favour by the Green movement and environmentalists in general as it kept heavy metal production to a minimum and kept a lot more of it out of landfill. With every advance there's an apparent backward step though and in terms of electronics it was increased fragility leading to a higher proportion of early failures.

[cbr6fs]

I did say 'now'.........laptops can longer be opened to repair or change the keyboards, i phones for example, have fragile screens & connections that easily come away, You can claim that electrical products made today are as solid & reliable as they were several years ago but user feedback proves otherwise.
You're right though completely off topic..sorry.

That is absolute rubbish.

I do not know of and have never heard of a Laptop that can't be opened.
Every part CAN be replaced but just like cars it comes down to if it's financially viable to repair something.
Iphones i don't know and don't care because i buy products from corporations that don't treat their customers like 5 year old kids

Electronics are getting smaller, therefore wires that connect these electronics are getting smaller.
As a guide i am easily able to personally repair the kids walkman tape machine.
Apart from changing a battery (Iphone) or basic repairs i wouldn't dream of repairing my mobile phone myself.

They ARE repaired though

[andybysea]

The guy in question may be lucky enough to never need use of the NHS or Police,but if he suddenly dropped down and needed urgent treatment i for one would'nt turn round and tell him to go off and die because he had'nt paid anything, i think the American system is absolutely horrendous,though i can see this lot in now wanting it for us.

[Tengu]

I think I will hug my Shrink the next time I see him; he is after all one of the leaders in his field....

....If we had to pay his private rates then very few people would get his services...including all but the Extreemely rich.

[Adze]

....If we had to pay his private rates then very few people would get his services...including all but the Extreemely rich.

Which likely means that his downward spiraling income would encourage him to adopt a new pricing structure. He is, after all, a very bright man or he wouldn't be one of the leaders in his field.

It's logical to infer that his private rates do not constitute his main source of income, or he likely wouldn't do any, or at least as much, non-private work.

[Toddy]

How about the low impact living site ?

http://www.lowimpact.org/index.htm

cheers,
M

[mrcharly]

He sponges of those who day pay tax. Same as he does when he uses the police, or the roads, or all manner of tax funded services.

I am very, very, into self reliance, but I have a deep seated moral objection to sponging off others. So part of "self reliance" for us, morally is to ensure that we earn enough in the Winter to pay in more than we take out. This type of thinking is basically human parasitism - the same as "freegans". It relies on the contributions of others - it cannot be a true lifestyle available to all.

Red

+10

I know a number of people who aspire to a 'freegan' lifestyle. They **** me off mightily.

[bushytoo]

I don't see a problem with what he is doing, good on him I say. There is more to life than working your butt off untill 70 or whatever retirement age is, which is what the government wants people to do.

[andybysea]

Have a look at the latest figures for the mega rich that George Osbourne asked for, show's alot are paying well below the tax threshold,and some are getting away with paying nothing at all, now who's worse this guy with little,or them with millions.

[Randall]

YEH GO MARK.

We can learn a lot from this guy. Maybe it's not feasible for everyone to abandon money today, but we can make small changes today so we're less reliant on money tomorrow. Among others he's setting a great example.

[Swallow]

It's quite hard (for me anyway) to judge tone when written down, but I find most of the posts on here mean-spirited, judgemental, closed minded and unduly angry. And to what end?

[Andy BB]

Daily Mail or the Express Andy?

Financial Times & Accountancy Magazine

Which is of course why I recognise the obvious absurdity of everybody living off "the State" and no-one paying into it!

[Ivan...]

I tend to agree with Swallow's comment's , one of the reasons i don't join in , because i know it would lead to a ban for me !
Nothing wrong with an opinion , and to be able to voice it , so many times i have started to type a reply , and thought better of it .

The one thing i find a bit difficult to understand is , this is supposed to be a Bushcraft site and by golly do you ever get some strange threads !

No offence intended of course ...

[Andy BB]

The guy in question may be lucky enough to never need use of the NHS or Police,but if he suddenly dropped down and needed urgent treatment i for one would'nt turn round and tell him to go off and die because he had'nt paid anything, i think the American system is absolutely horrendous,though i can see this lot in now wanting it for us.

Its funny how people seem to believe all the inaccuracies posted about the health service in the USA, but I see it repeatedly, and it's a classic case of "if you say something enough, they'll believe you"!

As far as I am able to understand from my trips to the USA and discussion with many of their medical staff and my own colleagues, if you turn up at hospital in a critical condition, you WILL get treated. True, they will then chase you for money if they think you've got some, but all this "turning away dying people" is complete baloney, albeit deliberately propagated by people with a political agenda, and lapped up by those who don't particularly like the USA.

It is also true that their medical system is anything but cost-effective - the main reason being the ridiculous law-suits and payouts causing medical liability insurance to be truly horrendous - how about a $100,000 PREMIUM for a single doctor? No wonder they charge $10 a pop for aspirin!

[andybysea]

Andy BB i was'nt talking about the US turning away people dying,though i still hate there health system, more i was getting at some of the attitudes on here re this guy if he was to get seriously ill.
My Brother in law lives in Southern Ireland and the cost when he/family need to go to the Doc's is ridiculous, put it this way im glad me and my family dont live over there or wed be destitute.

[John Fenna]

I lived in Belgium for 10 years - everyone has private health insurance and the treatment was superb so I see no reason to fear such arangements over here....
Around here it is next to impossible to get an NHS dentist - so I pay for private dental care and this is easily afordable even on my Minimum +10p wages ... no biggy....

[northumbrian]

It's quite hard (for me anyway) to judge tone when written down, but I find most of the posts on here mean-spirited, judgemental, closed minded and unduly angry. And to what end?

here ! here ! well said !

[Adze]

absurdity of everybody living off "the State" and no-one paying into it!

Did you read about that in the paper then?

[Randall]

It's quite hard (for me anyway) to judge tone when written down, but I find most of the posts on here mean-spirited, judgemental, closed minded and unduly angry. And to what end?

My last post was like this. I apologize for it.

I guess I feel pressure, or something, being an unemployed 23 yr old myself. There's a great deal of pressure and expectancy. When someone judges a little guy I guess I take it the same as if someone is judging me, hence, my reaction here.

Will leave the debate,

Randall.

[Andy BB]

Did you read about that in the paper then?

??? - your point?

[joejoe]

live without money. how do i buy fuel . pay for internet connection

[Adze]

My point? I was reading about Vodafone in the paper and the £10,000,000,000 they owe in tax but which they'll probably never have to pay in any meaningful way...

Sorry... your point about living off the state without contributing to it was what again?

[Toddy]

I have problems with hard black or white definitions. Life is multicoloured and shaded

I think my issue with this fellows (reported ?) bragging is that he's effectively saying that he doesn't contribute and he's fine.
Good for him, but it's a very selfish attitude tbh.

Our society works by people being prepared to contribute when they are employed or of sufficient funds.
That's it in a nutshell for me. I am so very glad that our society is prepared to help individuals and families when the need arises.
Tax dodgers, of any scope; small or the huge million pounder debtors, are effectively refusing to contribute to the common funds that are accessible to all who live here who are in need of assistance.

I'd hate to see us back in the days when folk had to virtually beg for charitable help when needed. Thank everyone who pays, we don't have workhouses any more, we don't have the destitute refused full medical help.

Assistance given should be done with quiet respect and clear guidelines.
Problem there though is that some who would scrounge start to demand support as a 'right' for life, instead of a benefit to be used when in need for a period of time.

I said before that we aren't good at explaining the system, that we don't teach it clearly enough. I think that still holds true, and I wonder if this fellow even considered how his actions would be regarded in that light and not just as an, "I don't need money", kind of boast.

The present economic climate means that there are a great many who would genuinely be prepared to work, who cannot find employment, and many who are working for such low wages that they can't contribute. There's none of them scroungers or parasites by the definitions given by folks here; simply fellow countrymen in need for the present.

As for the living without cash fellow; I might not like the message he's supposed to have encouraged re no taxes paid, but I would defend his right to state his case.
Civilised No ?

cheers,
Toddy

[Andy BB]

My point? I was reading about Vodafone in the paper and the £10,000,000,000 they owe in tax but which they'll probably never have to pay in any meaningful way...

Sorry... your point about living off the state without contributing to it was what again?

Ah - ok - idiots guide to economics (with due deference to the book of the same name )

Vodaphone employs 83,900 employees worldwide, and paid 1.628 BILLION pounds in taxes (that's 1,628,000,000 pounds)- 2011 audited financial accounts. Easily checkable by going online and downloading their annual accounts. That excludes the taxes paid by their employees, and those hundreds of thousands of companes and their employees providing third-party goods and services to them.

Funny how when you actually look at the facts, the hype sort of shatters, isn't it! I suggest you start reading a better class of newspaper

Here endeth the lesson........................ .......