saw trouble

[woodsitter]

In my ongoing knifesawchoppingcarvingcarryin g dilemma I decided to give the saw blade a try. I went to the hardware store and asked for a saw blade for dead wood, for a saw ‘just like the one in the window’.
“O.k., what size?”
:shock: “Ehh, about this (stretching my arms).”
“There are six sizes.”
:shock: “Ehh, o.k. I want nr. Six (totally no clue)!”

Fine, now I own a 71 cm sandvik saw blade, sharp as hell. It was less than 3 euro so well within my budget. It’s even not worth going back and admitting my stupidity!
There is no way of course that I could roll up this 71 cm spring steel killing tool into a hoop that would fit in my pot without decapitating me as soon as I lift the straps. It will remain on the wall of my tool shed to keep this learning experience fresh.

Anyway, I will not give in!
We will prevail and buy another saw blade (I think I’ll go for nr. One this time!) Still I can’t get those springy, razor sharp, steel teeth out of my head (not literally, don’t worry). Isn’t it better not to bend the saw but try and stick it next to the frame of my back-pack. I think it would fit nice and snug. Of course 71 cm is a bit off, but a shorter version might do fine. The only risk remains that I might slice my second most important piece of kit in half, when extracting it.

Did anyone ever try this (not the slicing, the stashing)?

[george]

Woodsitter

You should be able to slip the blade inside a section of garden hose where it will be quite safe if you want to strap it to your pack.

The hose can come in useful if you insert a piece of copper pipe in to one end about 4 or 5 inches long you can use it for blowing fires. I' m sure there are a million other bushcrafty uses for it as well - though I'm buggered if I can think of any others right now!

Anyone else?

George

[Adi007]

Having had bad experiences with coils of barbed wire years ago I have to admit that the rolling up of a saw blade and sticking it in a pot doesn't sound like a recipe for a great day out to me ... I've seen pictures of it countless times but I've never plucked up the courage to try it out.

[Bowie_Fan]

I have two sugestions that I use.
One item I use is a "pocket chainsaw" by supreme products. It sorta like a bycicle chain on steroids with teath. It works well and is fairly cheep and small. I actualy realy like it.
The other item I use (in winter) is a colapsable/take down snow shovel with a wood/snow/ice saw in the handle. Unfortunatly VERY expensive, but very handy to have and safe to carry.

[ChrisKavanaugh]

Do you use a hiking staff or trekking poles? You could secure the blade ( suitably protected) with a few wraps of paracord.

[woodsitter]

I got a shorter saw blade, it does fit next to the aluminium strips of the back-pack frame. But these strips are shaped to fit my back and that’s not straight…
I wonder how long the blade will stay straight…

I do use poles, but I think if I fix the blade to them with paracord they will wobble and won’t stay rigid in their position with the teeth down.
I can try it tomorrow,

[SquirrelBoy]

I was in a garden centre yesterday and noticed these saw blades.
They were made by Bahco and about 24" long, coming in two different types - one with small teeth (51 in all) and the other with large teeth (23) I think for dead wood and green respectively.

I tried to bend them round, as in a billy and found they felt quite resistant to it. This does seem quite dangerous if it were to spring out of your hand, however I have seen them used by Mr Mears with threaded nuts and bolts on the ends.

Has anyone had some experience with this setup?

Other than the obvious safety issue, it does seem a good way to have access to a lightweight saw.

[Adi007]

Having had a play with the Ultimate Survival Saber Cut saw carrying a metal blade is a thing of the past for me i I never did like that curving it into a billy and wire saws are, well, rubbish ... and if you don't believe me, just check this out:

http://outdoors-magazine.com/s_index..._article%3D146

These things will really motor through wood!

Spec and UK price here:

http://www.woodlandorganics.com/shop/us/index.htm

[Gary]

While I agree with Adi about the pocket chain saws and their cutting ability, and I even wished I had taken mine last weekened as I sectioned up some beech and hornbeam - I must differ slightly and add that their one weakness is you need two handed operation.

My POINT being in an emergency you may not have two working arms! Of course you can make a bow and string the blade between but you still need to cut the green limb to make the bow.

I dont think you'll be seeing many pocket chainsaws appearing in lumber yards around the country just yet.

[Carcajou Garou]

We carry a saw system that breaks down and fits locked inside a tube that is part of the frame. We can store 3-4 blades of different types in the hollow tubing. The frame slides out of the main tube and with no tools is assembled into a small buck saw; they are very good and aggressive in their cutting. Available from Lee Valley Tools LTD www.leevalley.com
You can either make or purchase a sheath for the whole saw and attache it to the outside of your pack.
just a thought

[Adi007]

I see your point about the one handed vs two handed use of saws. I'm sure you could make a bow for the pocket chainsaw in the same way as you can for an ordinary sawblade. The main problem I have with sawblades, especially ones curled up and popped into billys is that they are an accident waiting to happen. Also, the sharp edges of the curled up saw blade are much nastier than the edges of the pocket chainsaw.

[Stuart]

I spent a huge amount of time testing every imaginable folding saw and hand chainsaws etc and carried one all the time

But I much prefer a proper bow saw if any real cutting needs to be done
they are simply much more efficient with regards to the amount of energy used to the amount of cutting done

however until recently every bow saw I came across was too heavy/large to pack and the folding ones too flimsy

And packing the blades into your Billy can where once knocked they can spring out as you remove the lid is as far as I am concerned complete lunacy

I have now sorted this problem though and have a lovely solid and extremely light weight (its a little over 9oz) folding Bow saw that takes up almost no space and stores the blades safely

[woodsitter]

Thanks for the (new) replies.

On my last trip I did stuff the saw blade next to the frame of my pack and doing it very carefully noone got hurt. Even the blade was still straight after being bent a day or so. But I still thinks it is not very practical to use it. I did try to make a deacent saw by bending a green branch with two slits to make a bow saw, but is was not stiff enough so the sawbalde was bending en popping out of the slits all the time. I spend much more time repairing the saw than actualy using it.

Now the folding saw or the chain saw could be a solution. Stuart, how big is yours ? It looks rather short (no offence, I mean the folding saw :wink: )

[Stuart]

the blade is 15 inches long

[Gary]

If you cant make a decent bow from a green limb or you simply want to make a better saw fall stop why not make a Bucksaw!

I made one out of BEECH took me less than an hour to carve and assemble and it has been in use for the last year and half with no sign of tear and tear. And should the tension slip you just ned to winlass the cord tight again and off you go!

More than this is it asthetically pleasing to look at and makes a 'native' camp look even more professional!

[ESpy]

For them as want plans...

http://www.geocities.com/plybench/bowsaw.html

There's some plans for a framing saw around too (good for resawing) - http://www.hyperkitten.com/woodworking/frame_saw.php3

[jason01]

We carry a saw system that breaks down and fits locked inside a tube that is part of the frame. We can store 3-4 blades of different types in the hollow tubing. The frame slides out of the main tube and with no tools is assembled into a small buck saw; they are very good and aggressive in their cutting. Available from Lee Valley Tools LTD www.leevalley.com
You can either make or purchase a sheath for the whole saw and attache it to the outside of your pack.
just a thought

Friend of mine in Canada bought me one of these a while back, great tool highly recommended no compromises this is a proper collapsible lightweight bowsaw. Ive seen it tested somewhere maybe here or the French site? Mine is in a red anodized aluminium tube.

In fact I was walking through the grounds of a Carmelite convent on holiday in Cornwall recently with my g/f and spotted some Yew limbs hanging dangerously low, had a word with the mother superior, whipped out my take down bow saw and I filled the car with Yew logs

Jason

[Carcajou Garou]

If people are interested I could purchase these tube buck saws and send them to you Pre-paid shipped C/O?
just a thought
P.S. buy extra blades or two

[jason01]

Thats a kind offer Carcajou, heres the link, see the review at the bottom.


http://216.120.249.70/s_index.php?ta..._article%3D146

Ooops, sorry, the link doesnt go to the right article its bl***y frames isnt it, the article is headed "Saws for The Outdoors"


Jason

[alick]

...why not make a Bucksaw!

I made one out of BEECH took me less than an hour to carve and assemble and it has been in use for the last year and half with no sign of tear and tear.....

Another variant of this is the european frame saw - popularised by cabinetmaker and writer Tage Frid. It has a slightly simpler shape and can be made in pretty substantial sizes - 24 and 36 inch isn't uncommon.

Easy to make yourself - I found a good photograph here:
http://www.traditionalwoodworker.com...ossCut-Saw.jpg

Cheers.

[Carcajou Garou]

In the outdoor magazine article where the researcher cuts a standing tree; there is a picture of the saw part of the way through and another picture of the saw almost all the way through and finally the tree down. Cutting a tree in this fashion wrong
1.without a directional relief cut on the opposite side of the tree
2.you are pulling (stroking) the chain saw blade in an arc towards yourself as the blade cuts nearer to you, your hand are still tied (clasped into) the saw blade handles, you are maybe 2' away from the butt end of the tree. When you finally cut through, where do you think the butt end will go?
Often the butt will come kicking back to you :shock: especialy if the tree get hung up in other trees ops:
You may get away with this practise only so long then bang!!!! You probably won't be able to duck in time.
Nothing against the saw it obviously cuts, but the felling technique is bad
Treat all saw cuts as you would a gaz powered chain saw cut
You shouldn't stand behind your tree cut as the tree is about to fall
Make sure you have an clear escape route
Have a clear drop zone for the tree
Hopefully this was just an oversight in the demo
No flamming intended just something that I could not be silent with
just a thought

[grumit]

all very good points that you have made there carcajou garou
it would make a good tool for cutting a pre felled tree into smaller logs
but i would not like to have to use it to fell a tree maybe two peaple
using it from the side's would be safe ?

[Martyn]

In the outdoor magazine article where the researcher cuts a standing tree; there is a picture of the saw part of the way through and another picture of the saw almost all the way through and finally the tree down. Cutting a tree in this fashion wrong
1.without a directional relief cut on the opposite side of the tree
2.you are pulling (stroking) the chain saw blade in an arc towards yourself as the blade cuts nearer to you, your hand are still tied (clasped into) the saw blade handles, you are maybe 2' away from the butt end of the tree. When you finally cut through, where do you think the butt end will go?
Often the butt will come kicking back to you :shock: especialy if the tree get hung up in other trees ops:
You may get away with this practise only so long then bang!!!! You probably won't be able to duck in time.
Nothing against the saw it obviously cuts, but the felling technique is bad
Treat all saw cuts as you would a gaz powered chain saw cut
You shouldn't stand behind your tree cut as the tree is about to fall
Make sure you have an clear escape route
Have a clear drop zone for the tree
Hopefully this was just an oversight in the demo
No flamming intended just something that I could not be silent with
just a thought

Your comments seem to make a lot of sense to me. I've never felled a tree, but i can see the logic in what you say.

For anyone. I dont suppose I ever will fell a tree, at least not one of any great size, but out of curiosity, what is the right technique?

[OldJimbo]

I'd been meaning to talk to JM about his tree falling techniques because that picture gave me a fit too! Thanks for reminding me!

Tree falling goes far beyond putting in two notches. It's best to read lots first, and then see it done. Lots of lethal possibilities, and usually the small trees are worse.

[JM]

Hi ya,

Well, the undercut is good when you have a tree to fell, I had 3 metres of a straight trunk (all the top of the tree had already collapsed), so straight that I had to kick it to make it falll... So if you want to complicate life, I let you go for it. But I would definitively use an undercut for a living weighted tree.

[OldJimbo]

Hearing that makes me feel better!

[Martyn]

Hi ya,

Well, the undercut is good when you have a tree to fell, I had 3 metres of a straight trunk (all the top of the tree had already collapsed), so straight that I had to kick it to make it falll... So if you want to complicate life, I let you go for it. But I would definitively use an undercut for a living weighted tree.

Hi JM, I think Carcajou Garou's concerns was that although your article looks at the saw (very good article too), it gives the impression that a straight through cut is a normal way to drop a tree. Perhaps you could amend your article to point out the dangers of felling a full size and weighted tree in this way?

Just a thought. :wink:

[JM]

Hi Martyn, I understood that.
I think someone entered a comment to the article, and the reply is going this way.

Someone that has never fell a tree should not start with this saw anyway, and should start with someone that has already done so., but a tree means nothing, it does not speak of size of trunk, nor of the wood particularities.

It is a survival saw, so it is the matter of the survivor to evaluate wether it is more urgent to fell a tree , knowing there is a risk to get banged with it, and there will be one, as it is a very small piece of kit that requires to work near the trunk, or simply find fallen or drift wood, and use it. you will notice that I wisely choosed the second option :-D ;-)

Good felling instructions and related risk covering can be found in the Mors Kochanski book.

[Martyn]

Cool. :biggthump