Which bike shall I go for??

[dr jones]

I about to take the first part of the direct access bike test on April 13th , yes it's a Friday, anyway I'm trying to decide what kind of bike to go for bearing in mind carrying bushcraft kit. I fancy something that comfy for a guy that's six foot plus, maybe an older goldwing , pan European , older BMW. Sports bikes don't float my boat at all!!
Whatever I pick it also has to be comfy for my wife as pillion.
Any suggestions or recommendations?

[Doc]

One of the magazines claimed the Varadero was a good used buy - it never got near the popularity of the BMW adventure bikes, though apparently it's a competent machine, if a little thirsty. The used prices do indeed look quite low for what you get.

I'm looking around for a bike myself just now, and like yourself, I don't want a sportsbike. I've got an ex-army Harley MT350 which is most enjoyable, but being 17 years old, not as reliable as I would like. Of course, for reliability it's hard to beat a Honda.

Good luck with the test!

[Robbi]

i've got a 2006 Yamaha XT660r for sale if it's any help.

[Andy BB]

Goldwing 1500 - as long as its got decent service record these are pretty much the perfect mrs and kit hauler! Despite the weight, much of it is carried low down, so not too bad to manage, and of course the reverse gear comes in handy. Wife still wants me to get another one - the ultimate accolade for comfort! (Actually she used to fall asleep on it....)

I also have had a couple of BMW K1100LTs. Don't worry about the mileage on them - they go on for ever. Get an ex-police bike for £2000 or so- they normally come with full service history. Only problems that are common to them is left-hand heated grip and abs sensors. The top box with backrest is comfy for the pillion, but adds an awful lot of weight high up as it seems to be made out of lead and armour plate!- you can get much more stuff on it without it and the bike handles better. Its also very economical for a big bike - I was getting over 50mpg on fast (100mph+)runs down the autobahn and autoroutes.

The Yamaha XJ900 has a remarkable history of going on for ever too - uber-reliable - and has the all-important shaft drive too. Lots around as well. Again, £2000 should get you a decent one - 97 or later.

[greensurfingbear]

I ride on a Kawasaki versys 650 and I have to say I think it's great. good upright position means you can see over most cars, great turn of speed, not to thirsty and looks great fully loaded and not to bad to insure and tax


Orric

[cbr6fs]

Your best bet is to get to as many dealers as you can and ride as many bikes as you can to see what feels best for you.

As an example i took a mates Goldwing out (he worked on the rigs so wanted his bikes taken on a decent run every now and again) and i had to swap backs after 45 mins, my back was killing me.
Pretty much the second most uncomfortable bike i've ever ridden (first was one of these chopper things).

Likewise although the Varadero was fantastic around town, as soon as i started on higher speed roads the wind from the speed i was travelling would push me back, again giving back pain.

For me i prefer more of a leaning slightly forward seating position when riding, as at anything over 50mph you become buoyant with the wind hitting your chest.
With my CBR i tried various screens till i found one that meant at 80mph the wind speed took my body weight, it was the most comfortable bike i've ridden.

So it's imperative that you find a type of bike that works for you and the type of riding you do, the ONLY way you can do that is by test riding the hell out of as many bikes as you can.


Only other advice i can give is for your first bike try and get something with as little plastic as possible and something light enough that you can pick it yourself (when it falls over), as you WILL drop it.

A Goldwing for a first bike is pretty much the worst "advice" i've read or heard in 30 years of riding motorbikes.

[Womble_Lancs]

How about a Triumph Tiger? Good all-round bike with lots of luggage carrying capacity, and a very comfy seat.

[dr jones]

Thanks for the advice everyone ,I'll take it all on board and use it providing the test goes ok. Hoping to go to the moot on the bike whatever it may be. Looking forward to being able to carry a bit more kit than I could on my 125 .
Cheers , Roly

[lavrentyuk]

Raises more questions than answers really.

How much cash are you willing to spend ?

Are you happy doing your own maintenance ?

How far off the beaten track are you likely to go ?

Will you be doing any off road work ?

Pillion ?

Luggage ?

What sort of style/speed/size are you after ?

At the end of all that most bikes will do most things, but Goldwings will be crap offroad, XT600s will not corner too well on knobblies. My best slow speed tourer is an old MZ two stroke. If I want to tour fast I take an old BMW, if I want to play off road much I take an XT600 Tenere.

Enjoy.

[Squidders]

What is your riding experience? Have you been riding smaller motorcycles for years and are just doing your direct access now or will April be the start of your riding?

[Realbark]

Raises more questions than answers really.

How much cash are you willing to spend ?

Are you happy doing your own maintenance ?

How far off the beaten track are you likely to go ?

Will you be doing any off road work ?

Pillion ?

Luggage ?

What sort of style/speed/size are you after ?

.

good questions here and ones i would ask. Ive got over 33 years continuous riding experience and owned everything from MZ's to Harleys. They are all fun but if you want to use it as a workhorse then addressing some of the points raised will get you more accurate advice.

[Andy BB]

............A Goldwing for a first bike is pretty much the worst "advice" i've read or heard in 30 years of riding motorbikes.

Ah - a mere youngster - I've been riding for 40 years

As to the worst advice ever - The original question was raised by a guy 6ft+, looking for a big load carrying bike that would be comfy for his wife as pillion. He specifically mentioned an older Goldwing, Pan, etc. I was merely commenting from personal experince about living with similar bikes. If he'd have asked about a dirt-bike, or sportsbike, I'd have commented on those, but he didn't! Similarly, an MZ - a personal favourite of mine by the way and I still have a couple in various stages of disrepair - didn't fit the criteria.... As to "test-riding the hell out of as many bikes as you can" - erm - good way to become an accident statistic!

Physically, there's no reason why he shouldn't be able to handle a Goldwing, or Pan, or K1100LT, particularly if he takes time to get used to the beastie - which doesn't include riding the hell out of it So what therefore is the point on starting with a smaller bike that doesn't meet his needs?

Final point - whilst acknowledging that you found the Goldwing uncomfortable, you are in a huge minority (actually the only one I have ever heard criticising the comfort of a Goldwing)! As far as the others are concerned, the BMW K1100Lt was a favourite ride - and frequent winner - of the US Ironbutt rallies (1000 miles in 24 hours).

[Tony]

How did it go Roly? I used to have a GL1100 plain Jane that I really enjoyed. I keep thinking about another bike....

In regar to Roly having a big bike to start with, he'll be ok, I did my test on a honda 450 and went straight to the GL1100 after that one, no problem at all, although I admit the GL1500 is a bit bigger

[Grooveski]

For me i prefer more of a leaning slightly forward seating position when riding, as at anything over 50mph you become buoyant with the wind hitting your chest.
With my CBR i tried various screens till i found one that meant at 80mph the wind speed took my body weight, it was the most comfortable bike i've ridden.

I'm another who finds sportsbikes comfier than roadbikes. Tourers do my back in and cruisers are unbearable, the base of my spine is aching by the first pitstop and there's no getting used to it.
It's my backs fault, not the bikes. I know that and a lot of car seats set it off too.
It's a fine line though. Too much traffic and the wrists start taking the strain.

Think the comfiest bike I've ridden was a Fazer 600. It just felt right from the off and the longer I rode it the more I respected it.
Not the bike for me, I'm too used to full fairings and missed the weather protection on my legs. Too used to sporty front ends too.
Sure did fit me though.

[cbr6fs]

Ah - a mere youngster - I've been riding for 40 years

As to the worst advice ever - The original question was raised by a guy 6ft+, looking for a big load carrying bike that would be comfy for his wife as pillion. He specifically mentioned an older Goldwing, Pan, etc. I was merely commenting from personal experince about living with similar bikes. If he'd have asked about a dirt-bike, or sportsbike, I'd have commented on those, but he didn't! Similarly, an MZ - a personal favourite of mine by the way and I still have a couple in various stages of disrepair - didn't fit the criteria.... As to "test-riding the hell out of as many bikes as you can" - erm - good way to become an accident statistic!

Physically, there's no reason why he shouldn't be able to handle a Goldwing, or Pan, or K1100LT, particularly if he takes time to get used to the beastie - which doesn't include riding the hell out of it So what therefore is the point on starting with a smaller bike that doesn't meet his needs?

Final point - whilst acknowledging that you found the Goldwing uncomfortable, you are in a huge minority (actually the only one I have ever heard criticising the comfort of a Goldwing)! As far as the others are concerned, the BMW K1100Lt was a favourite ride - and frequent winner - of the US Ironbutt rallies (1000 miles in 24 hours).

I was only 2 years old when you started riding, don't think i'd even progressed to pushbikes by then, so i concede to you on being old errrrrrr i mean more experienced

Still though, i have had only a motorbike as my only mode of transport for many many years, so no garage queens here, plus i've owned and regularly ridden at least 1 bike since i was 14, so although you have me licked on years i still have a fair few miles under my belt and have ridden pretty much every major bike that's been released since the 70's.

The problem i have with your advice was that:
a/ A Goldwing is a big heavy bike to learn how to ride on
b/ It's covered in expensive plastic so WHEN it does go down it'll be expensive
c/ It might have a low cg when empty, stick a pillion on the back, fill the panniers and the fuel tank and it's a right bus to ride even for experienced riders
d/ It's heavy, so it's bad enough the first time you drop a bike over without having to ask a local rugby team to come and help you put the beached whale back on it's wheels
e/ For many non wingdingers it's one of the most uncomfortable bikes we've ridden.
In my experience if you've ridden varied bikes previously it tends to be difficult to get on with the wings seating style.

As i say bike buyer should be fun, the op needs to find what works for him, the ONLY way he can do that is by going out and test riding as many bikes as possible.
It's only with bums on seats that he will learn what feels right for him, once he has found a style of bike then we can narrow down a short list of the usual suspects to test drive.

To be honest you can adapt pretty much any bike for any task, i've toured Europe on bikes from RD350LC's and RG500's through to Busa's and sportsbikes and they all got the job done to varying levels of satisfaction.

We have done Greece to the UK and back several times on my old CBR600, one time requiring a quick return to Greece meant we did UK to Ancona only stopping to fill up the tank.
Sure we were knackered, but then we were the times we've done the same journey in the same time in cars.

The point is you don't NEED a big heavy tourer to tour on, it's really about individual taste and what feels right to ride for each user.

[swyn]

If I was looking for a good all rounder I'd look at Honda, perhaps the Africa twin/ XL 500/XL650 or similar. I'd also look closely at older 'airhead' BMW R 80RT or R 100RT and not forgetting the wonderful GS model which is now a design classic. Nearly all spares are available from folk such as Motobins or similar companies. These old BMW bikes are renowned for their reliability, ease of servicing in the field and there is a lot of interchangeability between the models.
Another little gem is the Suzuki DR 350. Keep away from the Armstrong MT 500! You will develop one oversized leg trying to start this......
Me, I'd like a Norton Commando.....with good brakes! Just for fun.
I'd like to say that you should be looking for a 'grin factor' of at least 10!
Swyn.

[dr jones]

Thanks again for the response , to answer a few questions . I've been on two wheels for twelve months now , riding a Honda shadow 125 , really love the laid back riding position. Other than that a bit of dirtbike riding , field bikes etc. I'd be looking to spend up to 3 grand . The reason for not being keen on sports bikes is every time I've ridden one I got cramp , just find them uncomfortable for lengthy rides but that's just me. Also I don't mind wielding a spanner to repair something but I draw the line at plugging in a lap top to find out what's wrong hense some of the bikes I've looked at are not what you'd call state of the art tech wise, I'm just after something that will eat the miles , be comfy for us both, be able to carry my kit to meets , mostly Tarmac no off road to really talk of , I'm not intending to ride the Road of Bones .
I didn't expect this much feedback , cheers
Roly

[Squidders]

Getting a huge bike initially would be madness... Sure a pan European has a nice easy riding manner but if you have no big bike experience, a very low speed spill may well catch you out. Something like someone changes their mind pulling out from a junction and you brake hard and the weight and size catch you out... A zero mph spill occurs and cracks lots of plastic. I am not saying its going to happen but going from a 125 to a 1100 tourer is a bad bad bad idea.

Bikes like the Africa twins and triumphs tigers are ok if you are over 6 foot tall from experience, I am 5'10" and they're tall.

Personally I would opt for something like a Suzuki sv 1000... Still fun when you want it, decent power but not crazy and very easy to ride. Great value for money.

Vfr 750 / 800 is also comfy and generally great.

If you wanted a shaft drive, I would go for a 900cc yamaha diversion.

Givi panniers should work well on both bikes.

[cbr6fs]

I'd put either a 600 or 1200 Suzuki Bandit on your list.

There is the Suzuki SV might be a big small though certainly worth looking at.

Others that spring to mind are:
Kawasaki Z1100
Yamaha Fazer

Personally although i do own several carb'd bikes i only ride fuel injected bikes regularly.
Next time i start the CBX you are welcome to come and help as cleaning all the carbs out on a 6 cylinder bike is an absolute nightmare.

So fuel injection really is the way to go, and to be honest there are not really much gains to be had buy tweaking the factory tuning anyways,
You can tune out a few flat spots, but they still run great without needing to plug in your laptop.

[dr jones]

I know that this will probably be scoffed at by riders of conventional bikes , but as my mod 2 test looms closer the search for a bike is picking up pace. After a recent trip to Italy where I saw lots of these, I've been reading up on the Suzuki Burgman 650 , and so far about 98% of what I've read has been positive.
does anyone here have experience of these bikes or an opinion poz or neg I'd like hear them!
many thanks
Roly

[Andy BB]

I know that this will probably be scoffed at by riders of conventional bikes , but as my mod 2 test looms closer the search for a bike is picking up pace. After a recent trip to Italy where I saw lots of these, I've been reading up on the Suzuki Burgman 650 , and so far about 98% of what I've read has been positive.
does anyone here have experience of these bikes or an opinion poz or neg I'd like hear them!
many thanks
Roly

Yup - had one for a couple of years. And they are brilliant bikes, although looked down on by some wot dont no! very comfortable, very economical - 55+mpg - will cruise at 90-100 all day, and handle way better than anyone who first rides one expects! Huge internal storage - 55litres, taking two full-face helmets with ease. I fitted a givi topbox and backrest to mine - another 52 litres and comfy for wife - only my 1500 Goldwing and Royal Star Venture were more comfortable for pillions, and that was a close-run thing. Add in the three "glove boxes" and you're looking at storage approaching that of a goldwing. Want more? throwover panniers will provide it, and you can also get bags that fit into the "stepthrough" section.

The auto gearbox makes cruising effortless, and after a quick play with the manual buttons and "power" mode, tended to ignore them.
Reliability? Probably as good as anything out there, and way better than most. One insane Aussie did a round-the-world trip on one - including the Road of Bones that defeated Charlie Borman and Euan Mcgregor - with no problems (like the broken subframes on the BMW GS1150s for example!) He apparently blew up the engine after 90,000+ miles doing something idiotic in the Outback.

The only model that has had some problems was the very first year - 2003. Other than that they've been pretty much faultless. I had the 2003 version cos it was really cheap!, and the only problem I has with it in 10000 miles was the parking brake, which was seized when I got it, and seized when I sold it - didn't really need it. The wheels are prone to getting a bit scruffy, but then so were those on my Goldwing.

They are deceptively quick - I had to keep checking the speedo to make sure that I hadn't crept way over the limits, particularly on the motorway. I also got a higher Givi screen for it which cured a bit of buffeting I got from the standard one.

In short? A brilliant bike, particularly if you don't need something that'll do 150mph or more - and frankly, who really does? This will lcruise fully-loaded at 100, which is good enough for me.

[Andy BB]

sorry - double post

[dr jones]

Thanks for that Andy, you seem to be yet another very happy owner,haven't yet found an unhappy owner apart from a couple of people on the web that seemed to buy one as a novelty when they really wanted a conventional bike so would of picked fault even with 100% cash back !!!

[hairyhippy]

BMW GS. I ride an 1150 GSA and it is wonderful. It will do evrything you want.

If funds are limited get the 1100. If you are flush go for one of the 1200s.

Shaft drive is fantastic. Servicing is reasonable - there are loads of good independents out there.

[lavrentyuk]

Versys would be a good option, Transalp too. Many people seem to conflate the need for big cc and weight with tourer which isn't necessarily the case at all. I have had far more fun travelling on smaller bikes than large but don't worry about it. I would also put in a good word for the aircooled Beemers, though they are getting on a bit now. Always fancied the non UK market R65GS myself, but have had many happy years on an R100S.

[Welshwizard]

How about a Triumph Tiger? Good all-round bike with lots of luggage carrying capacity, and a very comfy seat.

They really are a good all rounder and comfy to boot .

[ged]

As Andy says you might well find the Burgman suits you. Not too heavy, plenty of power, great storage space. Forget the Suzuki SV, that's no use at all for your requirements. (I have one so I speak from experience). I also have a Yamaha FJR and I'm slightly surprised that nobody else has mentioned it. Ranks alongside the Pan for size, weight and comfort but I much prefer the engine. The high-speed handling is pretty cr@p on standard suspension but I am comparing that with my Hayabusa. You don't want one of those either.

All things considered I think the 900 Diversion is, for you, the one must-see that has been mentioned in this thread so far. I've done quite a few miles on a couple of them, and I think I've never felt safer on a bike. Perhaps just a touch small for my ideal tourer but as others have said I don't think you would be well advised to go from a 125 to a heavy 1300 or a 1500 in one step.

As for the 'Wings, I hate them. My first reaction on driving one was "Get me off this now!". To me the things seem to oversteer something appalling, and AFAICT their owners are unable to see it. Add that to a fuel consumption similar to what I get from my 4.7 litre V8 Jeep and I'm afraid I could never recommend one to anybody.

[Andy BB]

In defense of the wings, my 1500 averaged around 40mpg - the 1800s are a bit better. (you must have a remarkable V8 jeep, Ged!) They are no Fireblade in the handling dept, thats true, but do the job fine if you treat it sensibly, and not a track-day bike. Takes a bit of getting used to - a bit like the front suspension on BMWs - but well worth the effort. It carries its considerable weight pretty low courtesy of the flat-4/6 engine layout, and is nowhere as top-heavy feeling as many big bikes (the BMW K1100LT and Royal Star Venture being two I can speak of with some confidence!) And very reliable - just look at the mileage these things regularly knock up, compared to the sports bikes and their 4ooomile annual average (which also includes 2 new rear tyres and an osteopath bill )

Unless your pillion enjoys this (on second thoughts, probably not appropriate - pm me for a fun picture my wife took on the road near a US biker week if you want a giggle..) she will love the pillion on a goldwing - there are none better. My wife regularly fell asleep on it!)

Having said all that, a Diversion 900 is a very good, cheap option. Shaft drive, reasonable economy, phenomenally reliable, superb owners club. Handling nothing to write home about, but adequate and fit for the touring purpose.

[ged]

In defense of the wings, my 1500 averaged around 40mpg - the 1800s are a bit better. (you must have a remarkable V8 jeep, Ged!)

I'm only slightly surprised by your 40mpg, as I take you for as sane an individual as one might find on this possibly-not-very-representative-of-mankind forum. But most foks I've heard have been talking of figures nearer 30, sometimes less. Granted I can do that on either of my 1300s but it makes for an exciting ride.

As for the Jeep, well modesty forbids but here's the consumption on a trip to a marina in France for my brother-in-law:

http://www.jubileegroup.co.uk/JOS/misc/dscf3557.jpg

This is the mileage:

http://www.jubileegroup.co.uk/JOS/misc/dscf3560.jpg

And I was towing this boat:

http://www.jubileegroup.co.uk/JOS/misc/dscf3490.jpg

...compared to the sports bikes and their 4ooomile annual average ...

According to my local dealer it's more likely 400 miles!

Unless your pillion enjoys this (on second thoughts, probably not appropriate - pm me for a fun picture my wife took on the road near a US biker week if you want a giggle..)

Post it!

she will love the pillion on a goldwing - there are none better. My wife regularly fell asleep on it!)

A friend of mine sometimes tours with us on his Blackbird. Another friend's wife says she sometimes falls asleep on the back of that! He does have a top box on it though. She doesn't like riding pillion on her husband's bike, it's a 'Blade, so no top box.

[Andy BB]

ged - pm'd you the pic