What calibre do you hunt with

[MartiniDave]

I've heard - but haven't witnessed, that the HW99 is "sweeter" shooting in .22.
Personally I own 4 x .177 and 1 x .22. I seldom use the .22 other than ratting around the sheds or for the .22 springer comp at the club.
Whatever you go for, practice, practice then practice some more, until you can place your shots at different distances and elevations without even thinking about it. Remember, accuracy is the key with airguns and their limited power, rather than worriying about that last .1 of a foot-pound energy. Int the field there is no discernable difference between 10.5 and 12 ft-lb, it's all in the mind.

Enjoy.

Dave

[Smith28]

35 mil.

There, I said it.

[Emdiesse]

Ok, cheers for the advice. I'll be going down the gun shop I think to try a few out and then decide which I get on best with. .177/.22 seems to be arguements for and against both of them. I feel my choice is swayed more towards .177 for now as a well placed shot with any calibre will dispatch quarry quickly. However, a miss placed shot in any calibre still has the potential to wound the animal rather than kill it, just apparently more so with the lighter .177 calibre, however an easier calibre to 'judge' trajectory so it's all swings and roundabouts it seems.

I'll just see how I feel in the shop.

[HillBill]

.177 unfortunately does not always dispatch quarry quickly even when you hit what you are aiming at. I've had .177 pellets go clean through the head of a rabbit and the rabbit has run off. Sometimes they only get a few yards, others they dont stop running until you lose them. If its near a warren you've lost it and have a badly injured animal stuck underground.

The only thing .177 does better than .22 is to have a flatter trajectory between 35 and 50 yards. But all you have to do us aim a couple of inches higher with a .22 at 50 yards, it aint difficult.

Go .177 if your not a competent shot, go .22 if you are.

[Welshwizard]

Yeah you can, but the pellet weight gives loopier trajectory similar to that of .20, but with much less pellet choice, chances of finding a pellet thats good in your barrel are much slimmer due to the limited number of heavy weight .177's

I normally opt for hollow points in .177 on any kind of live target and keep my range down to around 40 yds wether I,m shooting .22 or .177 in airgun over that range I opt for .22 rimfire anyway , running targets I stick to the shotgun .

[Emdiesse]

So, looking back at all the other posts. I want to just choose one calibre and learn it well. .22 or .177, whatever feels best in the shop.
However, I see that pellet choice can also affect the likelyhood of a runner
So would a heavier grain pellet work just as optimally as a standard grain 22 pellet?
Seems that everyone suggests to adjust the range to suit your gun as well. .22 to keep the range down to help keep a more predictable trajectory and .177 to up it to help avoid a pass though. Seems really if you were to do it properly you should have both calibres and pick and choose which is the best tool for the job!

As for hollow points... I hear they are designed to spread out when they hit the quarry... This doesn't mean disintegrate does it? as last think I would want is to eat bits of lead? Although, how often do you eat the head of an animal. I guess hollowpoints just flatten out better and so do not penetrate as well?

[HillBill]

Neither calibre will feel good in the shop . Rifles will feel good in the shop, and once you have found a rifle that fits you nicely, then choose which calibre you want.

If you want the best of both worlds then get .20, never used one but i hear good things.

Pellet choice isn't difficult. Try a couple of different types of quality pellets, both will be accurate. But one will be slightly more so than the other. Use that, then buy a different type and try that against the ones that your using. Generally, there are maybe 5 brands of pellet that get used the most. You don't need to try every brand out there. If you can put 10 pellets under a 2p at the ranges you hunt, then thats all you need

.177 pellets will never have the knock down effect of a .22 due to a smaller impact area, Heavier pellets wont hit harder than lighter pellets in .177 due to the power of the rifle not changing. A heavier pellet will just travel slower than a lighter pellet. The only difference you will notice ( or not ) is that a heavier pellet retains more energy at 50 yards than a lighter pellet. .22 have a larger surface area, so hit harder, be they lightweight or heavy weight .22. Also they retain more energy down range than a .177.

.22 trajectory is just as predictable as .177, its just loopier. for instance, if a .177 shoots 2 inch low at 50 yards, it will always shoot 2 inch low at 50. Compare that to say 4" drop on a .22, but it will always be the same 4" drop at 50. Difference is, a .22 pellet at 50 will carry 8 ftlbs of energy for example, whereas a .177 will have say 6.5. Also .177 are effected more easily by the wind, so that flatter trajectory out to 50 means nothing in a bit of wind. It could move off upto 2 to 3" in any direction.

Hollow points just flatten on impact, increasing impact energy. Only accurate out to 30 yards max though. Good for close up ratting or ferals in a barn.

So, looking back at all the other posts. I want to just choose one calibre and learn it well. .22 or .177, whatever feels best in the shop.
However, I see that pellet choice can also affect the likelyhood of a runner
So would a heavier grain pellet work just as optimally as a standard grain 22 pellet?
Seems that everyone suggests to adjust the range to suit your gun as well. .22 to keep the range down to help keep a more predictable trajectory and .177 to up it to help avoid a pass though. Seems really if you were to do it properly you should have both calibres and pick and choose which is the best tool for the job!

As for hollow points... I hear they are designed to spread out when they hit the quarry... This doesn't mean disintegrate does it? as last think I would want is to eat bits of lead? Although, how often do you eat the head of an animal. I guess hollowpoints just flatten out better and so do not penetrate as well?

[HillBill]

The only reason .177 is popular these days is because of HFT. Until HFT started .177 was not a popular calibre if you didn't shoot FT

[HillBill]

I've heard - but haven't witnessed, that the HW99 is "sweeter" shooting in .22.

All springers and gas rams are sweeter to shoot in .22 due to needing less force generated by the spring/ram to throw the pellet at the speed needed to generate the power needed

[santaman2000]

You can get pellets that are basically .22LR bullet heads. Ok in FAC airguns but useless is legal limit rifles. .556 heads weigh in just over 60 grain IIRC. twice that on the .22lr round...

You're pretty close regarding 556mm (or .223) bullets; they're available in 55 grain and 62 grain weights for military/police appliocations and a bit wider selection of weights and bullet styles for sporting loads. Hard to imagine 22lr being that heavy though. I haven't gotten the scales out yet (may have to do that shortly) but the entire loaded round really doesn't feel that heavy.

[santaman2000]

...As for hollow points... I hear they are designed to spread out when they hit the quarry... This doesn't mean disintegrate does it?...

The proper term is, "...their designed to EXPAND on impact." And you're quite right in thinking said expansion negatively impacts penetration; but it doesn't usually degrade penetration enough to matter on any but the thicker skinned big game (think grizzlies and bigger) so it shouldn't be an issue with the odd rabbit or squirrel.

[HillBill]

30 grain is only a little over 2 grams

Edit, just re read my post, i meant to say twice that OF the .22lr round

You're pretty close regarding 556mm (or .223) bullets; they're available in 55 grain and 62 grain weights for military/police appliocations and a bit wider selection of weights and bullet styles for sporting loads. Hard to imagine 22lr being that heavy though. I haven't gotten the scales out yet (may have to do that shortly) but the entire loaded round really doesn't feel that heavy.

[MartiniDave]

I seem to recall most .22rf bullets are around the 40 grain mark.

Dave

[santaman2000]

30 grain is only a little over 2 grams

Edit, just re read my post, i meant to say twice that OF the .22lr round

LOL. I'll have to take your word for the conversion (grains to grams) I'm only used to weighing bulets and powder in grains.

[peasantchurl]

the Longbow

[mrcharly]

Do you live in the UK, peasant?

[widu13]

Not going to admit it after that post!

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

[HillBill]

30 grain = 1.94 grams, I was out a little with my guess.

LOL. I'll have to take your word for the conversion (grains to grams) I'm only used to weighing bulets and powder in grains.

[Everything Mac]

Folk use .177 more these days as it takes much less skill to shoot accurately at distance.

I've always been a .22 guy, though i have a had a few.177's.

.22 will always take down quarry better than .177.

I can hit pretty much anything upto 80 yard with a .22 running at 11ft/lbs. Anythings possible, just depends how much you want to put into it, and how accurate you are at range estimation

Now come come Bill - I'm sure you and I had this argument when I joined the forum some years back.

While I agree with almost all of your post I feel I must make a few comments.

A .22 is indeed a slower more looping calibre and does indeed take much more skill to hit targets are serious range. However to state that a .22 will always take down quarry better than a .177 to me leaves out a slight detail.

a .22 will do everything a .177 will do - however it has one benefit - the heavier larger pellet will kill cleanly at closer distances - where the .177 "can" over penetrate and simply not kill your target due to less energy transfer (I believe)

IIRC (it may have been another member here Bill?) you hunt at shorter distances than I do. Averaging 25m - at these closer ranges a .22 does indeed have an advantage over .177 - particularly at under 20m. (slower velocity and larger size means more put down at shorter distance compared to over penetration with .177)

However this over penetration is often slated by .22 shooters who seem to forget that this is only at short distances.
This is a generalization but I have known .22 shooters to always go for the "easier" body shot rather than make head shots. (this is also often the case with .22lr shooters who rely on the power of their calibre to do the job)
It takes a skilled shooter to do this and hats off if you can. Personally I dislike this aim point when hunting as in my opinion it leaves too much space for error.
I favour head shots.

What I mean to say here is that slating the .177 because of over penetration is probably only considering body shots. And ignores the whole truth. (it is true a .177 will go through a rabbit at short distance) - Head shots will still kill.

At distances over 35m the .22 will drop more so than a .177 so a .22 shooter does need to know his/her ranges much better to take advantage of the weapon. (a hard skill I will admit.)

The .177 however does of course have that flatter trajectory so it is "easier" to shoot. That is to say that slight miscalculations in range to don't have such an effect.
But the .177 has no less put down capability than the .22 - its just that it is at slightly longer distances.

So there really is no better calibre in my eyes. I would say that the .22 is more versatile but the looping trajectory makes it more difficult to shoot. .177 is much easier to shoot, will easily kill at normal hunting ranges.

If the OP thinks he will require the weapon to be making kills at below 20m on rats and rabbits then a .22 would be the better option.

If however the primary quarry will be rabbits and pigeons at greater distances such as 35m+ then a .177 would be my recommendation.


I suppose it boils down to personal preference and choosing the right calibre for the job.

Frankly if you plan on doing rat shooting I'd get a proper dedicated rifle for it in .25 and do it properly.

Andy

[bradleybuckman]

Just out of curiosity, are there any restrictions on what firearm calibers you can own in the UK? I was wondering because it seems that pellet rifle hunting seems to be pretty popular over there and didn't know if it was due to firearm laws or not. I realize that you guys aren't allowed to own handguns, but didn't know if any restrictions extended to rifles as well.

[Everything Mac]

Just out of curiosity, are there any restrictions on what firearm calibers you can own in the UK? I was wondering because it seems that pellet rifle hunting seems to be pretty popular over there and didn't know if it was due to firearm laws or not. I realize that you guys aren't allowed to own handguns, but didn't know if any restrictions extended to rifles as well.

You have to have a fire arms certificate to own a firearm. These are quite hard to get and involve a lengthy process. Shot guns are easier to get but still require certificates and are still tightly controlled.

Air rifles up to 12ft/lbs or energy are completely legeal to own without any license. Hence why many more people use them.

With regards to the actual rifle calibre I know of a couple of .50 cal rifles on sale but I imagine you need a special reason to want one to get it certified?
I don't have a FAC myself so I'm not all to hot on the details of them.

Andy

[bradleybuckman]

Thanks for the information. It makes a lot more sense now as to why air rifles would be so popular there due to the regulations and permits required. I had no idea that rifles were so difficult to obtain for you guys and is a lot different from the regulations that I'm used to. Here, in my state at least, if you are of the legal age, have no criminal record, and have the money, you can walk into a store that sells guns and pretty much buy and walk out with whatever gun you want so long as it's not an automatic firearm or a shorter than legal barrel length. But even those can be obtained with the proper license. The procedure here is that you just show an ID that proves your age, fill out some minor paperwork and they call in your info to make sure that you are legally able to buy a handgun. After that is determined, you pay and leave with the gun. I know some states here have more restrictive laws than other states.

[mrcharly]

The other thing to bear in mind is that the UK is a crowded country - so shooting a gun with a (dangerous) range measured in the hundreds of yards would really restrict where you could shoot.

Much easier to use a pellet gun and only have to worry about safety for the next 100yards or so.

[bradleybuckman]

That's a good point and I hadn't really thought of that, but it makes perfect sense from a safety point of view. I believe some states here in the US have restrictions on hunting with high powered rifles due to the distance on the ranges of those bullets and the flat, open terrain in those states. I believe they use shotguns with rifled barrels or just slugs through a regular barrel. The area that I live in has lots of hills, trees and other things to stop bullets, so I guess I just forget some of the issues that people in different areas face.

[Silverback 1]

shooting a gun with a (dangerous) range measured in the hundreds of yards would really restrict where you could shoot.

Not if you have a safe backstop

[santaman2000]

Thanks for the information. It makes a lot more sense now as to why air rifles would be so popular there due to the regulations and permits required. I had no idea that rifles were so difficult to obtain for you guys and is a lot different from the regulations that I'm used to. Here, in my state at least, if you are of the legal age, have no criminal record, and have the money, you can walk into a store that sells guns and pretty much buy and walk out with whatever gun you want so long as it's not an automatic firearm or a shorter than legal barrel length. But even those can be obtained with the proper license. The procedure here is that you just show an ID that proves your age, fill out some minor paperwork and they call in your info to make sure that you are legally able to buy a handgun. After that is determined, you pay and leave with the gun. I know some states here have more restrictive laws than other states.

True with long guns but actually the mandated wait for handguns is a federal requirement (sometimes waived if you have a state issued CCW)

[santaman2000]

That's a good point and I hadn't really thought of that, but it makes perfect sense from a safety point of view. I believe some states here in the US have restrictions on hunting with high powered rifles due to the distance on the ranges of those bullets and the flat, open terrain in those states. I believe they use shotguns with rifled barrels or just slugs through a regular barrel. The area that I live in has lots of hills, trees and other things to stop bullets, so I guess I just forget some of the issues that people in different areas face.

Not always due to topography (rarely actually) Usually due to population density. Ohio ain't that flat.

[bradleybuckman]

True with long guns but actually the mandated wait for handguns is a federal requirement (sometimes waived if you have a state issued CCW)

I'm not sure about the rest of the states, but in KY, there is no waiting period on handguns and you can take them home as soon as the background check is done and you pay, regardless of a CCW.

[santaman2000]

I'm not sure about the rest of the states, but in KY, there is no waiting period on handguns and you can take them home as soon as the background check is done and you pay, regardless of a CCW.

You can in Fl as well if you have a CCW, a 3 day wait for all others That's one of the concessions given when they passed the assault weapons ban in 1994. Perhaps Kentucky has an exemption based on whatever, but the wait is not a state requirement but rather a federal one (actually that was another concession to florida as the federal requirement was for a 5 day wait) The original stated purpose was to allow time for a criminal history check but as we know that's done instantaneously through the NICS system. Unfortunately when the actual ban sunsetted in 2004, the wait did not. IF you are getting a handgun without said wait, then I suggest you not advertise it until you research the reason for the exception.

[bradleybuckman]

You can in Fl as well if you have a CCW, a 3 day wait for all others That's one of the concessions given when they passed the assault weapons ban in 1994. Perhaps Kentucky has an exemption based on whatever, but the wait is not a state requirement but rather a federal one (actually that was another concession to florida as the federal requirement was for a 5 day wait) The original stated purpose was to allow time for a criminal history check but as we know that's done instantaneously through the NICS system. Unfortunately when the actual ban sunsetted in 2004, the wait did not. IF you are getting a handgun without said wait, then I suggest you not advertise it until you research the reason for the exception.

Everything is being done in a legal manner and no state or federal laws have ever been broken in of any of my handgun purchases. Actually, you're information is incorrect. There is no federal law requiring a waiting period, the states set those.

Summary of Federal Law
There is no federal waiting period. Under the National Instant Criminal Background
Check System (NICS), a dealer may transfer a firearm to a prospective purchaser as soon
as he or she passes a background check.
If the FBI is unable to complete a background
check within three business days, the dealer may complete the transfer by default.
Federal law does not require private sellers to perform background checks on gun
purchasers. Accordingly, persons purchasing firearms from private sellers may take
immediate possession of their weapons, unless state or local law provides otherwise.

SUMMARY OF STATE LAWS GOVERNING WAITING PERIODS
Twelve states and the District of Columbia currently have waiting periods that apply to
the purchase of some or all firearms.

http://www.lcav.org/content/waiting_periods.pdf. Even before I had my CCW, I've never had to wait to purchase and take home a handgun. I have bought several handguns from this gun dealer in the past, which employs several retired police officers, and took the handgun home that day. Here is their link and if you look under the "Background Check" section, it clearly states that there is no waiting period for residents of KY.

Background Checks: There is no mandated waiting period for purchasing firearms in the state of Kentucky, but there is a background check required that involves filling out a form 4473. A current government issued photo ID with your current address must be present to complete the purchasing background check of all firearms.

Delays are possible upon completion of the background check. Generally these take 4 business days for the N.I.C.S. to resolve.

Out-of-state residents may purchase a long gun (rifle or shotgun) and may use their state ID providing it has a photo and current address and are subject to all applicable federal and state laws of the buyer's state of residence. If purchasing a handgun, out-of-state residents cannot take possession of that handgun until is has been transferred to a FFL dealer in your state who will comply with the laws and regulations of your state regarding handguns. We will need a signed copy of the FFL license that you wish your handgun(s) to be shipped. An additional shipping charge will be required for out-of-state resident handgun sales.

Military personnel may purchase handguns if they are out-of-state residents. They must provide a copy of their Permanent Duty Station orders and a current state photo ID.

http://shooterssupply.org/policies.html. Of course, you are always free to call them at the number listed at that link and they will tell you the same thing that I've stated.