Advice for Pen y Fan mountain walk this weekend

[andyxedos]

Hiya!

This weekend is going to see me and a friend attempt our first proper mountain walk and after seeing the peak temperature is forcast at being -4 i wanted some quick, if basic advice!

I know it is always preferable to wear multiple layers rather than one or 2 but i feal the cold so my plans were to wear something along the lines of:

army technical vest
long sleeve norgee shirt
and army long fleece

ill be taking a poncho along as well just in case as well as a pack with waterproof trousers in...
Will this be enough do you think? I have a ski coat but im thinking its going to be way too heavy and hot.....

cheers
andy

[lou1661]

personally, i wear a baselayer and a thin windproof as i get hot quickly, my warm kit of which there is plenty lives in my pack in case its needed. a wise man once told me to start cold and it seems to work for me, a couple weeks ago in Germany i was at -10 in a helly hansen lifa and a windproof, the activity kept me warm, my pack would keep me warm if i had to repain static.

[sasquatch]

Try and stay on the verge of cold without getting too cold would be my advice. You don't want to start sweating. I'd take a generous sized bergan (70L) with clothes and essentials in it. It shouldn't be heavy and you have options for layers then. I'm no mountain expert by any stretch so this is just how I'd personally approach it.

[JonathanD]

Where you are going you need to plan for the worst and take more layers than you think you will ever need. Take more food than you think you will need too. You'll be surprised at the conditions you get in that area. Waterproof trousers are a good idea as well as spare socks and strong supportive boots.

[Harvestman]

Have a good look at the mountain forecast. Weather for saturday is predictedas rainy all day, and you can guarantee winds on Pen y Fan. Sunday predictedas drier but colder. Personally, sunday would be my day of choice.

Plan for cold, keep dry, but most of all, wind is your enemy, as it can chill you far more than the ambient temperature, and very quickly. Layer up, including a windproof layer. Pen y Fan is the highest peak in southern Britain and should not be under-estimated in bad weather.

With sensible preparation and suitable kit you will have a good time, and some fabulous views.

Have a great weekend

[andyxedos]

So extra layers are a must-willdo! my plan is to go sunday anyway which is lucky!!
Windproof wise...... not sure what to wear to protect against that or will what im already planning with maybe an extra layer be enough?
i do have one of these to pack as well if needed:

http://www.fieldandtrek.com/karrimor...lcode=44205822

maybe a better choice than the poncho??

[Harvestman]

That looks like it will do a job.

Up in the Black Mountains above the Hay Bluff I once needed 5 layers (3 layers of gloves too) to keep the wind out, but that was a frigid and very blustery January day.

If I was going up Pen y Fan on sunday I'd have a thermal base layer, a warm second layer, then a thin windproof, then a warm coat, and a waterproof to go over it. For my lower half I'd have a thermal layer, winter trousers, and waterproof overtrousers. Good gloves plus either over mittens or glove liners, and a warm hat (possibly two, or a balaclava as well). Two pairs of socks (I use a silk liner with a warm oversock), plus a spare. Overkill? Maybe, but if you find you need it and you haven't got it, Pen y Fan is not a good place to be cold. You don't have to wear all of that at once, but have it with you if you need it. That plus plenty of food and drink, and the capability to carry it.

Personally, if I'm peak bagging, I don't worry abput hot food. I just have food. The exercise keeps you warm and the food gives you calories. Water to keep you hydrated. Hot food or drink is nice, but means more kit, which adds to the weight you carry.

Other people may do it differently.

[Scott Of The Llandow]

I wouldn't bother with the poncho, a good waterproof coat and trousers would be better and you will get hot very quickly as the climb up is er? a steady one?? the need for more layers is essential when you get up into the wind, i think with just a base layer and a water/wind proof wind the wind chill starts cutting into you thats when your outer skin starts to get extremley cold and you risk your core body temp to reduce, so a couple of fleeces ready to put on before the wind starts to cut you in half. I was up that way a week or 2 ago and there looked like a good layer of the white stuff up there,so i would really watch your footing its a long way to drop if you come a cropper!
I'm no expert but have been up several times by several different routes and the weather and terrain can cause difficulties for the inexperienced, so if it starts to look dodgey look for the quickest and easiest way off,i would say straight down to storey arms. But most of all enjoy it!!!

[Aaron Rushton]

Pen y fan often gets mists often. Just stick to the trail and you'll be fine. even training army guys get lot sometimes. for clothing, technical base layer, then a thin wool jumper, then a zip up fleece then a waterproof windproff outer chell. this is what i wear and im fine when i go up there.

[Bigrich]

Once you get to the top be very careful when you decend if visibility is bad, the triangular top looks the same all the way around when your down to minimum visibility, two ways off are just a bit steep and need a bit of care the third is a cliff face. Make sure you have a compass and know the way not to go just in case. When I used to live locally in the area and volunteer for the national park I often had to lead lost groups off in the direction of safety. If visibility is good no issue and you get the most amazing views, but if it goes once you get over the horseshoe to the top, it's not obvious which way to head down without one.

Probably totally over the top it'll be clear and you'l be fine, have a great time and keep safe

Rich

[johnboy]

Hi,

There is a lot of good advice above. I'd ditch the poncho as well as it'll just blow around on the tops. Give yourself plenty of daylight to get up and back down especially during the shorter daylight hours.

[bullterrier]

Take a proper wind/waterproof top - you can get full on bad weather up there. A poncho might be OK to curl up in for addtional shelter, but you will need the security of a good jacket. Have fun...

[wattsy]

Try and stay on the verge of cold without getting too cold would be my advice. You don't want to start sweating. I'd take a generous sized bergan (70L) with clothes and essentials in it. It shouldn't be heavy and you have options for layers then. I'm no mountain expert by any stretch so this is just how I'd personally approach it.

70l? i used to take 3 day trips in the lakes in winter with a 45l and never had any trouble no need to go over the top. warm clobber, map, compass, food, drink, shelter and a sleeping bag, first aid kit. everything else is optional

[nigeltm]

Hi Johnboy

Have a look at the Mountain Rescue England and Wales website for some general advice on safety and additional kit.

http://www.mountain.rescue.org.uk/mountain-advice

Specifically on clothing it's quite warm (only -2 on the peak, http://www.metoffice.gov.uk/loutdoor..._pressure.html), so you can get away with relatively light clothing, as long as you stay dry and watch out for windchill. As soon as you get wet (sweat, rain or just thick mist) you'll get cold a lot quicker. It's also important to take an extra outer layer to put on when you stop walking. While you are walking you're generating heat. When you stop you will quickly lose that heat unless you put on more clothing.

If I was out today I'd wear/take;
- technical/wicking t-shirt
- thermal base top layer
- mid layer (e,g Norge top) is optional depending on if you walk warm
- fleece jacket or Buffalo style shirt
- waterproof jacket
- quick dry trousers (quilted or not, again depending on whether you walk warm)
- waterproof overtrousers
- waterproof/thermal hat
- waterproof/thermal gloves
- spare hat and gloves
- boots/socks of your choice

Personally even in the coldest weather I don't wear thermal trousers. I walk warm and don't like heavy trousers. I rely on keeping my core warm and my legs look after themselves.

Stay safe and have fun,

Nigel.

[nigeltm]

70l? i used to take 3 day trips in the lakes in winter with a 45l and never had any trouble no need to go over the top. warm clobber, map, compass, food, drink, shelter and a sleeping bag, first aid kit. everything else is optional

Don't forget a torch!

A couple from Cardiff were lost on the hills above Treherbert a couple of weeks ago. Proper clothing but no torch and they relied on their GPS smartphone for navigation. The phone battery died, they got lost on the forestry roads and we ended up looking for them. It was nighttime and without a torch they could barely see and couldn't signal their position. Luckily for them they found their way to a road and were picked up.

They set off at noon and didn't think they needed a torch.

Big mistake.

For a couple of hundred grams in weight they would have had a signaling tool, something to help them avoid tripping and a morale booster.

[ged]

Tell someone at home where you're going, when you expect to be back, what kit you have with you and what to do if you don't make contact at the expected time(s).

Personally I'm not a great peak-collector but I do like hot drinks and meals if the weather's a bit grim. Not strictly necessary, as has been pointed out, but it makes my time out much more enjoyable.

Have fun!

[mattmcdaid]

This is me up Pen Y Fan on Monday. I set off at 0500 to get some sunrise photos from the summit, but within 20 mins on the mountain it quickly became more about battling the elements and just making it to the summit safely. This is the only photo I come away due to poor visibility from about 2000ft up.

On the summit it was -7 with a windchill of roughly -25. I had a technical base layer beneath a fleece and jacket. I even took a soft shell in my rucksack too just incase. A hat and neck gaitor really helped reduced the windchill on the day too. I opted to take YakTrax micro spikes as I heard there was a lot of ice on the mountain but they just got ripped up. )c: My only regret on the day was not taking crampons.

All in all, a great day out though! (c:

[sasquatch]

70l? i used to take 3 day trips in the lakes in winter with a 45l and never had any trouble no need to go over the top. warm clobber, map, compass, food, drink, shelter and a sleeping bag, first aid kit. everything else is optional

Yip. 70L for me pretty much whatever I do I take my Berghaus thesedays. It doesn't weigh a lot, it's comfortable and I like to know I can take what I need with room to spare. Of course it's just my approach, I've done some pretty minimal camps without any bergan before but most times I bring the ROC. Whatever works for individuals and all that...

[johnnythefox]

to be honest if you are asking these questions you arent ready to do this at the time of year.

look at mattmcdaid photo.

when i could still tab i went by myself in april.
it was so cold my water was undrinkable i had to swill it in my mouth first.
those hills are open and windswept.
it didnt stop raining and the wind was so strong the water falls where being blown back up the hill.
i was kitted out proper and had the knowledge,but i still could have been in trouble if i twisted my ankle etc.

i think a 30-35 litre packs enough for a day
and the poncho is good when you stop as a mini bivvy or over all your kit if it gets bad.

[mattmcdaid]

You should definitley plan your trip thoroughly too. Before every trip I spend a good number of hours planning my routes. I try to keep it to about 3 possible routes pre trip. 1) A 'best case scenario' route, for when the weather is good. 2) For when the weather looks as though it could be on the turn and your gut instinct is telling you to call it a day. 3) The 'GTFO' (Get The F**k Out!) route. When things go pear-shaped you need to know how to get off the Mountain! Also, try and make a vivid mental map of the area and the key features. Ridglines, deviations, noteable contours, dangers etc. Always having it there in your memory bank I find is useful, BUT always refer to your map and compass when decision making.

Just to touch on what JohnnytheFox mentioned about how cold it can get, I had a platypus full of water in my rucksack against my back during the whole trip. When i got to the car and got it out, lumps of ice had gathered in the top of it!

Ive posted up my route sheet that I made. These are necesseity should you ever need to be found on the mountain. Print it off, leave a copy with the missus, and on your dashboard before you set off! If you want a copy without my route on just message me and ill mail you one across!

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p...yfan_route.jpg

If you dont have mapping software on your PC, then try it at:

http://wtp2.appspot.com/wheresthepath.htm

or failing that, just write down your planned waypoints and emergency contact details etc.

Have fun and stay safe! Know your limits, and trust your gut!

[MikeLA]

Ive walked most of the Cheviots in winter in just a Helly hansen and a Sweatshirt/or Waterproof over this with No problems. You will need little while moving BUT when you stop put something Warm on Straight away That when your ski coat will be worth the bulk and weight carrying.
Just remember a flask of something Hot and your hat and gloves.

Most severe winter was -10 and in the wind and I was warm with just basic layers. Its all about practice. See whats best for you but take a couple of good warm layers in you daysac for a just incase time.

[andyxedos]

i think the words bloody hell come to mind!!!!!
Thanks to everyone for their advice..after seeing this picture i may well reconsider the outing tomorrow-even though the weather is supposed to be good all day those conditions are much more extreme than i would have expected and combined with the fact that my mate hasnt a lot of kit im not sure whether its worth the chace or better postponing until spring time :-( buttttt all being said i prefer to know now rather than drive 40 miles then turn around!

This is me up Pen Y Fan on Monday. I set off at 0500 to get some sunrise photos from the summit, but within 20 mins on the mountain it quickly became more about battling the elements and just making it to the summit safely. This is the only photo I come away due to poor visibility from about 2000ft up.

On the summit it was -7 with a windchill of roughly -25. I had a technical base layer beneath a fleece and jacket. I even took a soft shell in my rucksack too just incase. A hat and neck gaitor really helped reduced the windchill on the day too. I opted to take YakTrax micro spikes as I heard there was a lot of ice on the mountain but they just got ripped up. )c: My only regret on the day was not taking crampons.

All in all, a great day out though! (c:

[mattmcdaid]

I think if both you and your mate had the required kit, and the weather forecast is good for tomorrow I would've said go for it. But even if the sun is supposed to be beaming all day, you MUST be prepared for the worst. It's been said a million times and I can't emphasise enough how quick bad weather and poor visibility can close in around you. You have to faith in your own ability to get your ass out of those sticky situations and if there's any doubt then you shouldn't be up there.

My advice would be, get yourselves the necessary kit, plan thoroughly, wait for a good spell of weather (Spring / Summer) and head on up. Hopefully it'll just be case of you sticking to the path all the way up with the sun on your backs allowing you to take in the awesome views at the summit!

[Matthew.Passmore]

I was up that way week before last and it was pushing ice axe and crampon weather so make sure you are well prepared;

Plenty of layers, especially wind proofs.
Hat and gloves are essential.
small stove & fuel would be a good idea.
Head torch.
Emergency shelter.

its very likely that you could encounter white-out conditions so be sure you have a map and compass and know how to use them properly.

[Harvestman]

I was up on a summit (Blorenge) at the lower end of the Beacons national park today. Less exposed and significantly lower than Pen y Fan. The wind was horrendous. No snow at that level, but very cold, I got out of the car for a dog walk, and was back in within 5 minutes. Not nice. Colder tomorrow, with possible wintry showers. Be advised.

[johnnythefox]

you should go with some one experianced for the first trip

as for the cold water thats why we have a group buy for these stick them inside your jacket.


http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=85972

[johnnythefox]

a picture paints a thousand words,its also not the easiest to navigate as its quite featureless

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tJbzn3Ii3tM

[johnnythefox]

and of course if you really want a challenge go green

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bkg5C...eature=related

[Matthew.Passmore]

Just remember that there is nothing wrong with turning back if it starts to get difficult. If you start to think that you are in trouble then it is probably too late to get out and should have turned back 30mins ago when you saw that cloud coming over.

But it is good fun up there, as long as you are careful you will have a good time.

[bearbait]

If you can choose a route with the wind not heading you on the ascents it will be easier. The windchill can can be ferocious at this time of year, and a strong wind in your face on any ascent can make it seriously hard work. After all, you're doing it for the fun! And the exercise...and the views! The col/ridge to the W or SW of Corn Du always seems to be very windy/exposed when I've been that way, so take care, particularly on a blustery day. Pen y Fan really can be worth the haul. And the full horseshoe from the S/SE on a longer day is a really great hike. Have a great trip...