Handlines, hobo fishing and the law..... who actually knows?

[3bears]

ok gents, one very confused chap here!

we all seem to know that you need a rod licence to fish fresh water- it's everywhere you look on the enviroment agency's website. the website also gives details of catch limits, seasons for game fish, a contact database for clubs around the UK, how to report 'illegal' fishing...local by laws, but after spendign 2 hours looking through the website for nearly an hour i cant find anything other than this : http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk...ing/31469.aspx which is about unattended rods.

I haven't been able to find out anything about minimum rod length (at which point does a rod become a hand line?) or about handling itself. I live on a small island so I fish with a hand line a lot from the marina in the summer, but have not long found out that the river Cefni is CRAWLING with non migratory brownies and would like a crack at them- just on a 1 day licence but i cant see anything helpful regarding hand lining through the meant to be 'come here to ask us because we enforce the law' envroment agencey's website , and don't want to wind up in the shdook


can some one help me out and point me out to where it says 'thou shalt not' ?



cheers gents

[hedgerowpete]

in the eyes of the law as it were, the first seperation is

for profit or for personal use,
the difference is about ten times the fines, if you are caught as i have been doing something naughty for personal use and are attemping to collect one or even two fish then you will be delt with gently, turn up with a gill nett 300 metres long and with a crew of ten, expect to get shot at dawn.

next up is engine or rod
rods normal cover hand lines by the way, an engine is basicly almost anything other than a single length of line and a few hooks on it, so nets, fixed nets, eel cage traps and the like, dynamite is also classed as an engine by the way, so is elctrocution and poison and deoxygen treatments and draining, also covered under the engine is foul hooking where you cast a large weigthed treble over the river and wind it in hoping to foul hook a fish i think mainly becaiuse we are not using a baited hook as such hand lines are normaly treated as i said as per a rod and line, because we are dealing with a single length of line rather than any thing else and the enforcers from the envi or police see it that way as its simple to do.

and i belive the laws differ when it goes from sea water to fresh water,

lastly any line or engine left on its own un maned as it were is also breaking the laws,

I have a 200 foot gill net and a 200 foot seine net which i use several times a year and can use them without any ticket or licence perfectly legal as its for personal use, now that on any fishing forum will get you 6 millon hits from idiots who belive its not and A LOT OF ABUSIVE REPLYS, several years ago my mate acctualy had someone arrested because this idiot fisher man went and knifed my mates nets, the guy had to replace with a new set or get charged with criminal damage. i can set these nets almost any where on the coast and inside the severn eastury, there are a few rules in certain areas like the severn but its free to do!!

now all you need is a mate and a rope long enough to spand the straights and your off!!


a simple one day ticket and permission will cover you for it and good luck on them river fish

[boatman]

for profit or for personal use,

Worth remembering that an amateur can sell their sea fish catch if they are of legal size and caught from a short unpowered boat. Local sea Fisheries Committees will have regs on mesh size, depth of net below the surface and other matters including possible restricted areas such as Bass nurseries. Fixed engines might also be banned which would include a seine net staked at one end to the shore. However, generally there is a Public Right to Fish in the sea except, as mentioned on another thread, where a Several Fishery is claimed. The Duchy of Cornwall claim a Several Fishery for the Helford estuary for all species, for example.This effectively prevents net fishing but lines are accepted except that boat fishing for bass is severely restricted.

[The Big Lebowski]

Its also worth remembering that many a fisherman, idiot or not has strolled upon gill nets full of rotting fish. Its also not uncommon to find them strewn across Bass nursery areas ...

But that's another story for another forum.

[Andy BB]

Ah - gill nets. Invention of the devil......................... ......

[woodspirits]

"turn up with a gill nett 300 metres long and with a crew of ten, expect to get shot at dawn."

interesting stuff, 3bears if i may, along similar lines, if im up in the hills with my day permit and hobo who do i ask to catch my breakfast in a tarn/loch, or is that not allowed?

[hedgerowpete]

"turn up with a gill nett 300 metres long and with a crew of ten, expect to get shot at dawn."

interesting stuff, 3bears if i may, along similar lines, if im up in the hills with my day permit and hobo who do i ask to catch my breakfast in a tarn/loch, or is that not allowed?

the pink elephant game keeper of course, notice its not the flying pink elephant cause thats a myth !! lol

basicly as long as your not officialy going after salmon and the like we as personal users are fairly safe to do as we please if you are using lines

[3bears]

"turn up with a gill nett 300 metres long and with a crew of ten, expect to get shot at dawn."

interesting stuff, 3bears if i may, along similar lines, if im up in the hills with my day permit and hobo who do i ask to catch my breakfast in a tarn/loch, or is that not allowed?

from what I gather you still may need the permission of the loch owner, or club it it's club owned water- normall means buying another permit.... we have a few 'club owned' bits on the island here, that you need to buy tickets for if you want to go fishing, but these are lakes and reservoirs the Cefi river isn't actually owned by anyone as far as I've been able to find outso in my case as I'd need is a day ticket ... I think.... but for somethign as big as a loch I'd have though that there would be some club, or body managing things.

[woodspirits]

from what I gather you still may need the permission of the loch owner, or club it it's club owned water- normall means buying another permit.... we have a few 'club owned' bits on the island here, that you need to buy tickets for if you want to go fishing, but these are lakes and reservoirs the Cefi river isn't actually owned by anyone as far as I've been able to find outso in my case as I'd need is a day ticket ... I think.... but for somethign as big as a loch I'd have though that there would be some club, or body managing things.

thank you, as you can gather im not a fisherman but have a hankering to try my hand without buying tons of gear.

[wingstoo]

See if you can get an email to

Heidi Stone
Fisheries Policy Manager

She was very helpful when I asked her about Yo=-yo reels and Speed hooks

[hedgerowpete]

if no one as such owns the whole water than the land owner normal owns to the centre of the body of water, so on a river the land owners own from the edge to the centre line of the rive and a lake is the same.

just to get back to the first question as long as we are not using nets inland or snagging or poaching gear inland your very safe with most methods, the use of hooks might catch you out though, use metal standard fishing hooks and your ok , but dont use bone hooks or toggle hooks as they are not welcome.

and if you want to play with a few items for no or little cost i can send you over a handfull of fishing hooks and some line to get you started to play with, there free of charge but you do have to stick a quid in the local poor box

[Corso]

instereing replies HRP thanks very much I've also always fancied a bit of handline fishing and have never understood why they wern't covered by a rod licence

good to know they are....

what about trot lines - i assume they are counted as unatended? Even if you are there?

[wingstoo]

http://uk.linkedin.com/pub/heidi-stone/23/b37/870

Heidi Stone is the Senior Technical Fisheries Advisor at Environment Agency, so hopefully has to hand all the answers to the points raised, may take a few days, but she will answer the questions you have raised.

mailto:enquiries@environment-agency.gov.uk

[hedgerowpete]

yes basicly if the rod/line/reel is not in the hand then its classed as unattended which is a no no but its not enforced other wise the carp boys would all be introuble when they fall asleep, its more of a case of when you go home as it classed as unattended, lol

[knifefan]

I hope I havn't stumbled on an eastern european cookery thread But the sad truth is yes "all rivers, ponds, lakes, becks and streams are owned by someone"!!! and to avoid breaking the law you DO need the owners permission to remove any fish from those waters. Whether its for personal use or for gain On the up side - all freashwater fish in the UK are edible!!!! (some tastier than others !!!!!)

[redsalmon]

in Scotland handlining for brown trout on rivers and lochs away from the roads should be fine, as long as it looks like you're fishing rather than poaching, eg if there's bait on the hook . 'Snagging' , jerking a naked treble hook through the water to foul hook fish, is generally frowned upon - you don't want to be doing this on salmon water.

otter boarding, see http://www.bushcraftstuff.com/fishing/the-otter-board/ , seems to be illegal.
"As it stands at the minute, the Salmon and Freshwater Fisheries Act (1975) specifically bans the use of otter laths, as they are called."

don't know what they'd say if you were using a balloon in place of the board.

My feeling in Scotland is that no-one will hassle you if you're a wee bit off the beaten track and chasing natural brown trout, as pointed out above it's the scale and 'professionalism' of what you're doing that might make it an issue. On a popular or salmon water you would need more consideration of other's rules ...