Red willow pain reliever

[Andy BB]

Why is any criticism of blatantly incorrect claims taken as an attack on herbal medicine overall? I have repeatedly stated that I have no problems with herbal medicines, if the individual is fully aware of what they are doing. It does not have to be one or the other!

However, interesting spin on contra-indication warnings. Every "professional" medicine I've ever taken in my life has come with contra-indication notes. And that is as it should be. Information is knowledge. Detailed research and review over a period of years has identified the risks, and provides such information in the packets. Why should that be regarded as a "bad thing"? Every packet of the 100,000,000,000 aspirins sold each year has them!

As for risk of herbal medicine - excluding the basic "portion control" issues of stuff picked in the wild, or possible contamination with pesticides/fertilisers and diseases carried in animal and bird droppings or urine - the University of Maryland gives some good advice.

Used correctly, herbs can help treat a variety of conditions, and in some cases, may have fewer side effects than some conventional medications. But because they are unregulated, herbal products are often mislabeled and may contain additives and contaminants that aren't listed on the label. Some herbs may cause allergic reactions or interact with conventional drugs, and some are toxic if used improperly or at high doses. Taking herbs on your own increases your risk, so it is important to consult with your doctor or pharmacist before taking herbal medicines. Some examples of adverse reactions from certain popular herbs are described below.

• St. John's wort can cause your skin to be more sensitive to the sun's ultraviolet rays, and may cause an allergic reaction, stomach upset, fatigue, and restlessness. Clinical studies have found that St. John's wort also interferes with the effectiveness of many drugs, including the blood thinner warfarin (Couamdin), protease inhibitors for HIV, birth control pills, certain asthma drugs, and many other medications. In addition, St. John's wort should not be taken with prescribed antidepressant medication. The FDA has issued a public health advisory concerning many of these interactions.
• Kava kava has been linked to liver toxicity. Kava has been taken off the market in several countries because of liver toxicity.
• Valerian may cause sleepiness, and in some people it may even have the unexpected effect of overstimulating instead of sedating.
• Garlic, ginkgo, feverfew, and ginger, among other herbs, may increase the risk of bleeding.
• Evening primrose (Oenothera biennis) may increase the risk of seizures in people who have seizure disorders and bleeding in people with bleeding disorders or who take blood thinning medications, such as Coumadin (Warfarin).

Some herbal supplements, especially those imported from Asian countries, may contain high levels of heavy metals, including lead, mercury, and cadmium. It is important to purchase herbal supplements from reputable manufacturers to ensure quality. Many herbs can interact with prescription medications and cause unwanted or dangerous reactions. For example, there is a high degree of herb/drug interaction among patients who are under treatment for cancer. Be sure to consult your doctor before trying any herbal products.

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/h...#ixzz1mX7KICYM

[Toddy]

No disagreement, but simply that the potions of the pharmacy are not the sum total of good stuff, and I think the individual needs to be much more aware of the falliblity of those medicines. That the recommendation is that I take three kinds of pills, one to stop the ache, one to protect my stomach from those pills, and a third to act as a joint support....that I've already had that screwed up liver function, but, "that should be sorted by now, so just to be taken and have regular blood tests", kind of says it all to me.
One elderly relation is now on 17 different pills 'every' day, I think by the time the doses are worked out she takes 53 pills in the day........y'know ? that's a lot of pharmaceutical profit, and half of those pills are only taken to ammeliorate the action of others.

People who use herbal medicines are very picky, usually, I know I am and most every other plantsperson among my friends is too. We talk of synergy, where the unrefined plant, not the purified out extract, is actually the better option. That's what means I can take meadowsweet but can't take aspirin.
But meadowsweet doesn't come in neat wee sterile and sealed in bubble pack boxes at an expense......it just grows and needs forethought and effort to collect and dry......it's a different kind of expense.

Your tone makes your posts seem confrontational; that's not what this thread was about. It was intended as informational, and mostly aimed at people like the OP who are interested in the use of herbal medicines.
Discussion does not need to come to a single agreement, not everyone would ever try anything but the pills, just as there are folks who distrust those pills and producers and would not ever countenance their use.

I happily admit I use both My son is alive because the onconolgists have the resources to kill cancer
Right now I'm damned uncomfortable because I trusted the pills but the herbal materials are easing even that; not quickly, not in the twenty minutes that the pills took, but it's gentler and it's working

I've found a patch of the 'red willow' / red stemmed dogwood, and I'm going to ask if I can cut some for basketry, and I'll try the skin and see if that works too ....options, always options, good things that don't leave damage behind, are worth knowing about

cheers,
Toddy

[PDA1]

4000 years of medicine:
2000 BC "Eat this root"
500 AD "That root is Pagan, say this prayer"
1800AD "That prayer is superstition, take this potion"
1900 ad "That potion os snake oil, take this pill"
1950 AD "That pill is not good enough, take this antibiotic"
2000 AD "Those pills are poison, eat this root"

[Paul_B]

Well with all this talk of willow pain relief I got told to gargle soluble aspirin to sort out a nasty throat infection from a cold. Seems it helps with a sore, bleeding and sleep preventing throat. Aspirin doesn't work for me for headaches as pains so I was sceptical but it has worked. The reason I say this it now makes me wonder if there is a good way to use natural sources of salicylic acid (active component of aspirin IIRC) in a similar way?? Can you produce a solution of the active ingredient of commercial aspirin from the willow? So far people are talking of chewing and sucking aa piece of bark. The commercial, soluble aspirin works well as a gargle but would natural willow do this? Would you soak the bark overnight for example to get a good infusion of the bark or is there another way to get a solution of the natural aspirin??

[ThreeFires]

Why are you debating the issue then? LOL!

Actually, I didn't come here to debate the issue either, but to point out that scare tactics like several mentioned above (particularly the ""proven beyond all doubt to be unsafe" but not forgetting your own "Nsaids, and other over the counter pain relievers kill people annually at a pretty high rate") are deliberately or negligently misleading, particularly when your own recommendations on dosages refer to half-handfuls or handfuls!

It is certainly true that taking aspirin in handfuls - or even half-handfuls - would definitely be hazardous to one's health, but of course that is not the recommended dosage, and no medical practitioner would so advise.

However, back to the "unsafe" or "killer" aspirin. Have you any idea of how many aspirin tablets are produced/consumed annually? 100,000,000,000. One hundred BILLION a year. Thirty five hundred metric tonnes of the stuff. Annually. Want to guess how many cause death when taken according to medical advice? A minute fraction, these primarily being those on low-dose regimens to protect them from heart disease or strokes. Conversely, studies estimate that 45,000 deaths in the US alone would be prevented by a low-dose aspirin regimen http://www.rwjf.org/newsroom/product.jsp?id=21904

As I said before, i have absolutely no problem with people using herbal medicine, provided they know what they are doing, and not just following internet "advice" without understanding the pros and cons. But I do object to those spreading malicious or totally unfounded allegations against "proper" medicine, whether it is to "spread the word" about "natural healing, dislike of the big pharma companies, basic lack of knowledge, religious dogma or just a new age philosophy.

[ThreeFires]

4000 years of medicine:
2000 BC "Eat this root"
500 AD "That root is Pagan, say this prayer"
1800AD "That prayer is superstition, take this potion"
1900 ad "That potion os snake oil, take this pill"
1950 AD "That pill is not good enough, take this antibiotic"
2000 AD "Those pills are poison, eat this root"

LOL! and so true. It's a vicious cycle.

[Andy BB]

Why are you debating the issue then? LOL!

It's not debating to point out the stupidity of "statements" that aspirin is "proven beyond all doubt to be unsafe" - I consider it a public service!

And another public service announcement - don't take St Johns Wort and expect the contraceptive pill to work (My cousin found out the hard way that a natural medicine adviser wasn't clued up on contra-indications. Luckily she now has a delightful son, and didn't suffer any more serious side-effects from listening to a non-medical adviser about herbal treatments...)

[ThreeFires]

Here is some information from the University of Maryland school of Medicine on Willow, it's uses as a medicine and such.

http://www.umm.edu/altmed/articles/w...ark-000281.htm

I believe they are a reputable source on the subject. I hope they are, because a lot of medical doctors throughout the world, pharmacists, neurologists, nurses and such were taught there.

That is just one example of many. There are many other reputable sources of information on the use of salicin containing plants on the web. Repautable meaning the information is provided by universities, medical doctors, and folks with Phd's and such. The University of Michigan has done several studies on Willow bark and other natural remedies for a wide variety of ailments with promising results using scientific measures; blind studies, placebos, etc. I'm sure there are similar studies being done in the UK by reputable people.

I never suggested anyone eat a whole handful of willow bark either. LOL!

[Toddy]

I heard that hypericum causes the contraceptive pill and insert not to be so effective, yet traditionally it has a reputation as an abortifacient if taken at strength with, no I'm not naming them on open forum, two other common herbs.
Yet trying to read up on the topic leads to conflicting reports on assorted research papers.
The only concensus apppears to be that it leads to a quicker breakdown of the contraceptives than is normal in the body.

The obvious question; does being on the pill cause the depression that leads some to take hypericum; doesn't seem to be considered

cheers,
Toddy

[PDA1]

Paul B - It would be usual to make an infusion by simmering and steeping the herb/natural product, in this case willow bark or meadowSweet, in water. See a Herbal for quantities and times (or much better, consult a professional herbalist). The infusuon extracts, in this case, the Salicin, plus other soluble substances, which are (either singly or in total) , responsible for for its effectiveness.