Settler
Settler
Meths stoves, boil time, 500ml/2 cups, best times please using 1 OZ/30ml of fuel...
Loads of Alcohol stoves out there people and for pure boil times can we list our best efforts using 500ml of water please which seems to be the industry standard? Indoor testing is fine but cold tap water is to be used and a vigorous rolling boil/100 degrees C used with one ounce/30ml of fuel...
Mine is 3 minutes using a .22 JSB pellet tin stove and a wide base whistle kettle or 3.5 minutes using a .177 mozzie pellet tin stove and an MSR Titan kettle.
Steve.
Mod
Native
Settler
Settler
Sure as long as 30ml of fuel is used....
Steve.
Mod
Native
Cool, 30ml will be plenty but I've no idea of the timings
I'll have a go when I get in tomorrow
Settler
Settler
The reason for this thread is I have been watching many stove threads on the tube and while the standard water amount seems to be 2 American cups or 500ml or roughly one pint, there seems to be loads of wildly different boil times and ultimately many very different 'flame out' times using various amounts of fuel.
Imo there should be an industry standard of 500ml/2 cups of water used with 1 OZ/30ml of fuel. It would save a lot of confusion?
At the end of the day, if your alcohol stove can't boil 500ml's with 30ml's of fuel something must be wrong? If you can do better PLEASE let me know so I can blatantly rip off your idea!!
Steve.
Forager
Forager
Any chance of some pic's Steve, as that's an impressive time and I would like to rip off your design! LolOriginally Posted by ateallthepies
I've not tested the amount of fuel, though I'll try to do that this week, but my with my Trangia copy (by highlander) I was averaging around 10-11 mins for 500ml. With my latest stand I've got it down to under 8mins, but still compared to yours that's pretty damn slow!
Btw I've been waiting till the stove has bloomed before putting the mug on and starting the timer. I'm using a 12cm zebra pot.
Cheers
Mat
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Settler
I'm Putting the kettle of either make on the wire pot stand as soon as I light the stove wick but as they bloom in less than 10 seconds is no problem to the timing I think?
I will put some pics up tomorrow but the design is dead simple, a pellet tin with some 2mm holes drilled around the lid rim on the outside. I found holes drilled in the top profile took longer to boil water!
In the meanwhile here is a pic showing the contents of my cook kit and showing a side view of the stove held within a Titan cup, held within a wind screen, held within a Titan Kettle ....
I use this daily to make my lunch and as an example make a super noodle meal up with one of the bottles in the pic which holds 30ml.
Steve.
Last edited by ateallthepies; 09-12-2011 at 23:19.
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I would have thought the criteria for "best alcohol stove" would be the one that uses the least amount of fuel (most efficient) with boil times being pretty irrelevant? If your objective is to carry the least amount of fuel (weight) needed to do the job, then does it matter if your 500mls takes 3 minutes or 10 minutes to boil?
If it's just about bragging rights, then my Jetboil Sol will boil 500mls of cold water in 1 minute, 45 seconds using 6 grams of gas.
"I feel I was denied critical need-to-know information!"
~ Burt Gummer
Settler
Settler
I would say your first statement Martyn would be correct if out on a hike or such but I mainly use my stoves at work so boil time is the foremost criteria for me as I don't get long to sit down.
The Jetboil sounds like a great bit of kit and would be perfect for me but I can't justify the cost of one seeing as I have several years supply of meths fuel.
I know it doesn't really matter that much but I would really like to see some consistency in the way people test their stoves with whatever fuel they are using. I think the amount of water boiled needs to be the same every time as this is one factor that will make a big difference to either time and amount of fuel used. Then other factors like pot type, material, lid/no lid, water temp are secondary and can be copied if wished to try and emulate someone's results? Also the type of boil achieved is quite important as from many of he vids I watch a rolling boil can be either a couple of bubbles rising to the water erupting out the pot!
At the moment in my stove building quest I am trying to get the fastest boil times while using a set amount of water and fuel. This happens to be 500ml and 30ml respectively as this amount of water is just enough for a brew and a noodle mix and the fuel amount is a nice compact size when bottled. I would like to find the the most efficient stove and cook kit combo but boil times must come first for me.
I think if I can't get my boil times down much further then it will be time to start looking at ways to make these stoves offer a gentler heat for slower cooking by maybe changing the lid and holes so maybe a tin stove could come complete with two lids, a simmer lid and a fast boil lid?
Ultimately I would like to make a truly variable power alcohol stove that can be adjusted while lit but that will be when I have more time and maybe when my garage is a little warmer!
Steve.
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Native
Standardised stove testing is very difficult Steve, too many variables, ambient air temp, water temp, flame spread, pot width/material et al.
First thing for you to do as you need the fastest boil you can off a small alcohol burner is to get an energy efficient pot such as
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PHOENIX-He...item1c1b14c05c this will improve your boil times by around 30% on pretty much any stove. I've got several different sizes of this pot design and they really do make a big difference. The build quality on the one I've linked is as good as a similar pot branded Primus.
Settler
Settler
Cheers for the link Rik, I have not seen that design before. I suppose the stove you use must direct most of the heat to that structure at the bottom for it to work?
30% is a big improvement on a boil time and I suppose around 30% less fuel will be needed?
Steve.
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Native
The design is old, similar was used on kettles years ago then fell out of fashion but is coming in on more and more pots these days. Makes a real difference in your fuel needs. If you order now don't expect it to arrive for about a month due to xmas etc and the seller usually accepts 'make me an offer' of 10% or so; offer £15, money well spent.
Settler
Settler
Took some pics of the two stoves I use at work. I use the big whistle kettle and larger stove for fast brew-ups and this boils in 3 minutes from lighting the wick and is my best time to date. The other kit is for food and is part of my lightweight kit should I ever get off my lazy behind and actually go hikingThis has a 3.5 minute boil time.
The larger stove has a fierce flame pattern that licks up the sides of the kettle and you may see where one of the spout levers has melted on one burn where I positioned the wind shield a tad wrong!!
I believe the large stove has 2mm jets and the smaller has 1.5mm jets.
Here is what the stoves are like on the inside, a sort of basic twin wall design...
The wick from Minibulldesign is a great addition as it primes in no time at all and I have a theory that it also acts as a bit of insulation once up and running and keeps more heat within the stove?
Well if I get one of those pots Rik mentioned I could possibly get a 2 minute boil and that is knocking on the realms of the Jetboil?Maybe it will use more fuel to do this as I think 6 grams is hard to beat but still a very cool prospect!
Steve.
Last edited by ateallthepies; 10-12-2011 at 14:44.
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Native
Have you got that actual pot Richard, and if so how long did it take to arrive? It looks like a bargain if it's as good as the Primus one.
Yes (near enough) to both questions. If you put something like a windshield around the pot to encourage the heat to cuddle around the sides of the pot it will also give you some help.
If you're desperate for the odd minute of boil time, I'd have thought a little forward planning would go a long way. How about taking a thermos full of hot water with you to get a quicker boil?
Is an electric kettle out of the question? A 3kW kettle will boil 500ml of water from 15C in one minute flat.
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Settler
An electric kettle? Now that's just being plain sensibleYes I suppose It would be the fastest and easiest way but not as fun. Plus I like the idea of being self sufficient and having all that's needed in my van so when the 10 foot snowdrifts happen on my way to work in the Arctic south of Britain I will be fine for coffee and pot noodles until I get dug out
A Thermos is a good idea too but I'm terrible in the morning and usually up and out and rarely even have breakfast at home let alone faff around with a Thermos!
Steve.
Last edited by ateallthepies; 10-12-2011 at 15:04.
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You really should get a jetboil Steve....I like the idea of being self sufficient and having all that's needed in my van so when the 10 foot snowdrifts happen on my way to work in the Arctic south of Britain I will be fine for coffee and pot noodles until I get dug out
"I feel I was denied critical need-to-know information!"
~ Burt Gummer
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I have a Chinese version that came with an alcohol set and also an Optimus tera, both are on a par with each other in terms of efficiency, there is nothing between them and they certainly do make a big difference to performance whatever stove you use - I dunno about 30%, but I can believe it. The only negative with the Chinese version, is that is has a very heavily embossed logo stamped into the base (looks like "Alocs"), which is the stupidest idea ever as it acts as a food magnet and makes the pot a nightmare to get clean. That embossed logo would put me off buying another unless I could be sure the pot didnt have it, in which case, there is no practical difference between the Chinese pots and the named brand versions.
"I feel I was denied critical need-to-know information!"
~ Burt Gummer
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Native
I had one off the supplier, no embossed bottom. Delivery seems to vary between two and four weeks from my experience with them.
Primus pot £26 delivered
http://elitemountainsupplies.co.uk/p...mer-sale!.html
As the wife is out I fired up a 123 indoors and did a little (not really scientific test), 500ml water from the fridge (4c) stove running 'cherry red'
Crusader mug with lid...to full rolling boil 6:48
Two pint Bulldog billy with lid 3:56
Primus ETA pot (can't find the Chinese one) 2:22
Same stove, different pots massive difference in performace.
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I never timed it, but my experience would concur. Remember I was doing some fuel consumption tests on different stoves a few weeks back? Well I was using an Optimus tera (same as Primus Eta) for all the tests. Anyway, I has one of my Svea 123's packed away inside a 12cm zebra billy can - makes a nice little set - I used it to cook some noodles about a week later and it seemed to take twice as long to boil. I wasn't timing it, so just anecdotal, but the tests were fresh in my mind and the difference struck me. I remember thinking at the time it was taking way longer than it did the week before with the Optimus pan. Although the pot size is different, the same technology is used on the Jetboil pot and I have no doubt is a major part of the reason the jetboil is so fast and efficient. The fins on the base also seem to stabilise the flame pattern in wind too - not as much as a full windshield, but the flame seems much less susceptible to distorting in gusts and breezes.
Last edited by Martyn; 11-12-2011 at 01:03.
"I feel I was denied critical need-to-know information!"
~ Burt Gummer
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Native
Get a £10 gas stove and one of these pots and you have Jetboil performance for less than half the price of a JB. I've got all the ETA pots and the 2.9l is great for cooking for three or four using a stove.
http://elitemountainsupplies.co.uk/p...-29-litre.html Not had anything off this site but his prices look good.
Got one of these coming off a good friend in the States
http://www.rei.com/product/784116/gs...coffee-grinder He won't post until after the xmas postal shambles but I'll report back on this one
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Performance wise, yes you might get close. If only it was as efficient, convenient and it locked together, then it would actually be a good alternative.
"I feel I was denied critical need-to-know information!"
~ Burt Gummer
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Native
Plenty of cheap gas stoves they will fit, often with a wider base so far more stable than a JB. My lad likes his JB, cost him £0... he pinched it off his dad
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I've got the Evernew meths burner & DX stand, with cold water, cool ambient temps (10 c), windshield and a gentle breeze I managed a rolling boil in 8 1/2 mins. The down side is that I used 1 3/4 oz of fuel. Oh I used an Alpkit Ti mug for the vessel.
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Cant possibly be more stable than holding it in your hand and no cheap gas stove will let you do that - in fact to the best of my knowledge, no other stove at all will let you do that (except possibly the Primus Eta Solo which is essentially a jetboil copy). Speed and efficiency aside, that one fact makes it irreplaceable for some situations, such as crouched in a bothy bag during a storm or in the passenger seat of a car, neither of which I would even consider attempting with any other stove. I dont know what you've got against em Rik, but there are a number of situations where they are without question, the best possible choice of any stove money can buy.Plenty of cheap gas stoves they will fit, often with a wider base so far more stable than a JB. My lad likes his JB, cost him £0... he pinched it off his dad
Last edited by Martyn; 12-12-2011 at 16:14.
"I feel I was denied critical need-to-know information!"
~ Burt Gummer
Bushcrafter (boy, I've got a lot to say!)
Native
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/WEB-TEX-CO...item4aaf6683fa Will fit, be more stable than a free standing JB, fit one of the energy effishient pots with room for a brew kit etc plus you can use that sort of stove on bigger pots without buying further bits and pieces. The bothy bag and car use realistically is a statistical nonsense Martyn, thats a JB fan clutching at straws chap lol. Nothing wrong with a JB or the Eta Express (which seems to come out on top in tests), I have both and as said my lad nicked mine...I'm in no rush to grab it back. I certainly don't think they are the best stove money can buy in any situation I can envisage. I had no idea you used a bothy bag?
Last edited by rik_uk3; 12-12-2011 at 18:08. Reason: swapped the ETA express so don't own one.
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You should speak to Basermetal on BB, he'll tell you what he thinks of your statistical nonsense as he carries and uses a bothybag often. In Ayreshire it can get pretty bleak and he uses a bothy to get out of the weather for a fast brew and warm up when there is no other shelter on the hill. It's the main reason he carries a JB. I've also used a JB in my landy often. I've used it in the passenger seat and I've used it with 3 people sitting in the back with very little room to spare and certainly nowhere near enough for any other type of stove. The jetboil is the ONLY stove that can provide a safe brewup in these conditions, aside from being one of the fastest and most economical stoves you can buy. But it's the practicality and ease of use that has won it so many fans including half the lads in the army. I'm not a fanboy Rik, I own dozens of stoves of all shapes and sizes, I like many of them for a variety of reasons, but I dont bury my head in the sand either. The Jetboil isn't the perfect solution for all things, it has it's limitations. But your refusal to accept it's clearly obvious benefits and lack of any criticism with substance, just smacks of inverse snobbery and stovie elitism. I used to rate your opinion highly Rik, but you've lost me I'm afraid. Your POV lacks objectivity my friend.
"I feel I was denied critical need-to-know information!"
~ Burt Gummer
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