waterproofing versus water management

[treadlightly]

It seems to me that it should be possible to go through the winter relying on wool for keeping out the rain, or at least, in John Fenna's phrase, managing the rain.

So I'm going to give it a try, layers of wool instead of my wax cotton coat which I don't much like wearing as its too thick, inflexible and sweaty. Wool somehow feels more natural.

I'll let you know how it goes.

[blacktimberwolf]

And should you get thirsty, just wring & drink

[treadlightly]

And should you get thirsty, just wring & drink

I intend to

[John Fenna]

Good luck
Felted, oiled wool is pretty well waterproof and if you have regular access to drying facilities you should be fine
The outer later(s) may get wet but the inner one should be OK,
I would recommend a thin Ventile layer over the top ... but then I would ... I love my Ventile...

[rik_uk3]

You'll do it easily day to day in London or camping in woods, not on exposed ground in heavy rain, keep your wax coat to hand if out in the great outdoors.

[Brewers Whoop]

Any early interim findings Treadlightly?

[treadlightly]

Any early interim findings Treadlightly?

I wish there were! Since posting there has been virtually no rain, or at least none around when I've been out and about despite me spending quite a while up in north Wales.

[Tiley]

And should you get thirsty, just wring & drink

That only works if you sweat whisky...

[Bowlander]

It seems to me that it should be possible to go through the winter relying on wool for keeping out the rain, or at least, in John Fenna's phrase, managing the rain.

So I'm going to give it a try, layers of wool instead of my wax cotton coat which I don't much like wearing as its too thick, inflexible and sweaty. Wool somehow feels more natural.

I'll let you know how it goes.

For woodland bimbling wool is fine, but after walking the dogs for half an hour in my Swanndri pullover it was soaking, my shirt underneath was dry however. If you're heading onto the hills I'd ditch the wax and wool and go for pertex or paramo. The thought of walking any distance in a wax or wool coat doesn't excite me at all!

[Aristotle]

What you're describing is basically the basis for Paramo clothing. I've been very impressed with my Paramo Velez Adventure Light smock. It breathes extremely well and has kept my dry and warm so far in drizzle and in heavy rain. It also dries out quickly. It also seems to work well as a thermal layer when cold, but not too hot when it warmer.
Sitting stationary for long periods in heavy rain it might be best to wear a membrane like a poncho as the Paramo works i a different way.

[cbr6fs]

A lot depends on how active you are and if you tend to be sensitive to the cold or not.

Personally i wouldn't spend 1 hour in wool or a wax jacket for love nor money.
50 years ago maybe, but no days there is enough diversity in materials, weights, cuts and designs that there really is no need to be cold, wet or uncomfortable.

My advice is to layer up instead.

[treadlightly]

I used to use synthetic waterproofs but couldn't get on with them. I like the paramo method but prefer natural materials. I have always been surprised at how well my wool handles the rain so what i am doing in effect is seeing if it can be a long term solution forneveryday, bimbling in thenwoods and for longer hikes.

[bilmo-p5]

In the days before synthetics took over, raincoats, (as opposed to waterproofs), were invariably made of wool. You could do a lot worse than scouring your local charity shops for a wool raincoat for your outer layer.

[John Fenna]

there really is no need to be cold, wet or uncomfortable.

.

Which is how most synthetics make me feel!
Natural fibres are less uncomfortable to wear (synthetic fibres make me sweaty and stinky and prone to fungal infection if worn next to the skin), wool is very warm for its weight and natural fibre fabrics can be very water resistant (immersion suits made of cotton WORK!) - I prefer natural fibre fabrics though I do not totaly reject synthetics

[Chiseller]

I'm field testing this old army overcoat at minute...throwing it dahn here an were off aht to mooch some land shortly....





.

The Mighty Oak Is Merely A Nut Who Stood His Ground

[sandbender]

"...It seems to me that it should be possible to go through the winter relying on wool for keeping out the rain, or at least, in John Fenna's phrase, managing the rain..."

Hill shepherds in Transylvania to this day still wear a woollen cloak (suba or szűr) to get them through the winter months, a bit bulky for active work, but quite cosy.

I have a nice set of synthetics, but unless it really is pelting it down I prefer to wear my Bison and Swandri woollen gear.

[Ogri the trog]

Which is how most synthetics make me feel!
- I prefer natural fibre fabrics though I do not totally reject synthetics

Same here,
as things are chilling off into winter, I've layered up with two layers of swannie and a ventile top shell - the other day when doing the school run, I put on an old fleecy lumber-jack shirt and within minutes was feeling clammy and couldn't wait to get home to take it off!

However the rain today will see me reaching for either wax cotton or a siliconised poncho when I venture out later on.

Ogri the trog

[vizsla]

i always prefair to wear wool its the best possible material for what i do, iv had my swanndri ranger longer than most of my kit and its probably the only thing iv never thought about swapping and its as good as when i brought it if not beter, however if the weather gets bad i will take a waterproof. but usualy its juat a good excuse to throw up the tarp and have a brew

[sandbender]

"...iv had my swanndri ranger..."

I have had a ranger for years now and only recently bought a Bison shirt to compliment it, it is I think a better garment, one to check out when the ranger gets too tatty.

For waterproofing over wool gear I usually use a 58 pattern poncho, which keeps me dry without the condensation problems caused by a full set of waterproofs.

[cbr6fs]

I used to use synthetic waterproofs but couldn't get on with them. I like the paramo method but prefer natural materials. I have always been surprised at how well my wool handles the rain so what i am doing in effect is seeing if it can be a long term solution forneveryday, bimbling in thenwoods and for longer hikes.

It does take a fair bit of experimentation to find what works for you.
many people make the mistake of wrapping up in too many layers and overheating, even with the best modern fibres they can only breath to a certain extent.

I'd found a fantastic combination for year round walking in the UK, but then when i moved here i found that these combinations didn't work in the weather we have here.
Even if the temperatures are the same or similar there is a lot less humidity here so the cold doesn't seem to cling to you and go through as many layers as in the UK.

I've been out hiking in the snow here with only a very thin baselayer and an even thinner windproof smock and found it about perfect.
Stop for more than 5 mins though and you need to add another layer.


End of the day we're all different, so there really is no right or wrong here it's all down to what you prefer.
I will say though that synthetic materials can absolutely work great, BUT they do need some experimentation to get right.

Which is how most synthetics make me feel!
Natural fibres are less uncomfortable to wear (synthetic fibres make me sweaty and stinky and prone to fungal infection if worn next to the skin), wool is very warm for its weight and natural fibre fabrics can be very water resistant (immersion suits made of cotton WORK!) - I prefer natural fibre fabrics though I do not totaly reject synthetics

If it was anyone else John i would say "you've not tried the right synthetics" knowing your career and experience in this field though, your opinion has to carry a LOT of weight in this discussion.

As i said above we're all different so there is no one solution that works for all people in all environments.

I do honestly believe that i have tried if not all then the vast majority of alternatives over the years.
From Árann and various other wool clothing, to Ventile, waxed jackets etc etc.

I just can't get on with walking around in damp clothing, and it is always damp because non of the outer wear stuff i've tried breaths at all when wet.
Even then although you are warm and damp,
personally i hate having damp clothes stuck to me, and the smells when returning back to base/home have to be smelt to be believed.
Then there is the itching

Arrghhhhhhh i'm getting depressed and itching just remembering some of these fabrics



As for old immersion suits.
Sure Ventile can be waterproof and warm, but it also becomes as breathable as a bin linear when wet, add to this the fact that it dries slower than a fish in water.
The when used in the wet during any activity beyond opening a beer, you'll sweat quicker than you can drink, throw in some really cold weather and you end up with a solid block of ice being wrapped around you.

The ONLY reason it was selected for immersion suits (as in the army) is because it's no where near as flammable as the alternatives back then, (although being a quiet and very tough and tough material helped).


I know a lot of guys on here like old army stuff, in some cases it can be a great cheap solution for many things, clothing included.
In this case though, although new fabrics are being tested, i have never seen or heard of any army surplus kit that comes anywhere near the quality of modern high street stuff.
Personally i'm a function over form kinda guy, if a fabric came out that kept me warm, dry and sweat free i wouldn't care if it only became available in pink with black spots, i'd still wear it.
A lot of my camping and wild camping mates rip the **** out of me because i use modern fabrics in ALL their glorious colours
After a cold wet night though i yet to find anyone that's been as warm, dry and comfortable as me in my "gucci gear".




Cheers
Mark

[treadlightly]

In the days before synthetics took over, raincoats, (as opposed to waterproofs), were invariably made of wool. You could do a lot worse than scouring your local charity shops for a wool raincoat for your outer layer.

They would be wool gaberdine or perhaps barathea, i guess?.

[treadlightly]

Spent three hours today walking in constant light rain wearing a wool duffel coat with a wool base and mid oayer underneath. The coat was damp at the end, no more, and although its inside around the shoulders was also damp my mid layer was bone dry. The other thing was I felt much more at home in the wet wearing something that absorbed the water rather than something that repelled it.

Just a small test I know, but an encouraging start.

[mbiraman]

I worked in the BC bush for years. We tried the various synthetics with no luck. The trouble is there are no so called breathable synthetics that breath well enough during exertion,real work. We wore wool, pants and shirt/sweater, in the rain as well, unless it was a downpour then we would dawn a waterproof for a short period gladly taking it off when the downpour was over so we could breath again. We used to like it when we stopped working , you could see the steam rising off our shoulders. Today i wear wool when hiking and throw on a down jacket and cotton anorak when i stop for lunch or camp.

bill
Ps when working in the bush we could get our wool cloths dry every night,,,that's important.

[bilmo-p5]

spam reported

[treadlightly]

spam reported

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[bullterrier]

http://www.timberlineinternational.c...butterfly-cape

I'm going to try one of these soon - lots of different versions available - just Google NZ butterfly cape or carry cape. (A carry cape because they are meant to be good for carrying an animal out without getting too much blood on your back.)

[Squidders]

You can stay dry all winter wearing just wool if you have a thin goretex layer over the top.

It's great seeing a bunch of wool clad people all steaming away like kettles around a campfire, trying to dry out between downpours.

Wool is perfect for dry cold and damp weather but if it's going to pour down with rain and you're going to be staying out in it, you're going to get soaked through.

[andybysea]

Agree with Squidders, especially the last line.

[John Fenna]

I rather think you guys are missing the point of the trial......

[Squidders]

Treadlightly thinks it should be possible to keep weather out with wool only and will put this to the test?