Bush classes on BcUSA.

[southey]

I'm sure a few of us cross the waters from time to time to check out our brothers and sisters forum, I have been reading their bush class forum more an more, Do you guys reckon it would work here? I like the idea, a collective and dedicated way of encouraging certain skill groups

Do you think it would work here?

Would you take part?

would you like to keep the same template as the BcUSA classes?

And to Tone, Admins and Mods, do you think it would work? has it been tried and problems found? would you be willing to work with it or would it add to much to the work load?

Many thanks chaps!

Southey.

[John Fenna]

I am currently doing my bushy trips to finish off my "Basic" - I think it is great and could well work over here!
I see that the "intermediate" has just been posted I am looking forward to that too!

[hiho]

i've seen them and would definantly try them. but i've not spent much time on the other site

[Tank]

i think the bushclass is a great idea on BCUSA, often spend time going thought peoples post to get ideas.

[pwb]

Like John I've done the required lessons and electives just got to do the outings for the Basic.
Really enjoyed participating , good fun and would be great to have something similar here too.

Pete.

[Man of Tanith]

personally i like the idea of a group online learning as it were
if it could be done here i dunno but i would give it a go if it does pan out

[Ahjno]

Seems like I can't view that section as it's private, and I'm not a member ... I think I get the idea and thought behind it, though if anyone could elaborate about this concept I'd really appreciate it

[Mesquite]

Seems like I can't view that section as it's private, and I'm not a member ... I think I get the idea and thought behind it, though if anyone could elaborate about this concept I'd really appreciate it

Join up... you know you want another bushcraft site to while your time away on when BcUK is slow

[southey]

Looooooooooooong PM sent Johan!

[Man of Tanith]

get comfy johan
and give it some thought i think it could be a very good section for this site

[Toddy]

No, I don't think it's a good idea.
I think it'd be all too easy for it to become, "more bushcraftier than thou"

I come on here to relax, to see what my friends are up to, to see something new to try, to read what others are doing at whatever season we're in.
Not to do scout type proficiency badges. Not to amass wee certificates.

Does one have to then do the little tests on every forum to carry visible proof of one's proficiency ? or do they get affixed to the avatar and carried around like the medals on a Russian general ?
What about folks who've done the courses with Backwoods, Woodsmoke, Forest Knights, Footsteps of Discovery ? Do they get to add their certificates to their running total too ?

For me, and a great many others, Bushcraft = chill the hell out asap I'd rather it stayed that way.

cheers,
Toddy

[southey]

no there doesn't have to be any kind of certificate or tag afixed to it, just a kind of free teaching forum in a directed way, why would any other school certs have to be involved? you can still learn and relax at the same time cant you? why would you have to do tests on other forums?, i don't think it would be a one up man-ship thing and certainly not a craftier than though, just a way of focussing on core skill in a cost free way.

[resnikov]

I like the idea as it gives you a goal and maybe steps to help you achieve that goal. Looking at the BCUSA one i can do a few of the things it asks for and not others but it also shows some I had never thought of trying.

I think it'd be all too easy for it to become, "more bushcraftier than thou"

I do agree with this though, there should be no kind of certificate or tag just the warm glow in knowing that your skills are improving and you are learning something new.

[John Fenna]

I am doing the BCUSA basic course at the moment and finding it great fun - I am not worried about the cert at the end (though the badge will look good in my collection ) or being bushier than thou.
I am finding it a great way of revisiting some skills that I may have neglected for a while, learning a couple of new wrinkles and it is proving a good way of focusing on doing a bit more than "over-chilling" in the woods (read "doing nothing") - a bit like my volonteering to run a workshop at the Moot.
As a simple way for "newbies" to learn key skills to help them enjoy bushcraft without spending a fortune on courses - or even to encourage them to attend some courses if they get the bug - then I think they are beyond compare! Some folk like a bit of structure and the sence of completion that this kind of thing gives - I have coached lots of canoeists through the BCU star award scheme who have no intention of competeing in the olympics or becoming a canoe coach but who like the structure of the course (or at least the old courses - the new ones are awful!) and getting to complete a set of skills learning modules that can then be built on to achieve the proficiency they desire.
Strangely the cert and badge can even be presented at non related job interviews as proof of an ability to apply oneself to a learning program even if you are non academic ...fancy that - having fun can help you in real life as well .
I will certainly be following the courses on BCUSA ... as well as trying out lots of other skills that folk post as Tutorials both here and there ... but then - I am one of those who enjoys structure and my certs file is replete with certs and badges for everything from computer programming to 1star canoe (flat water) - it was all fun - structured fun - but FUN!

[Kepis]

No, I don't think it's a good idea.
I think it'd be all too easy for it to become, "more bushcraftier than thou"

I come on here to relax, to see what my friends are up to, to see something new to try, to read what others are doing at whatever season we're in.
Not to do scout type proficiency badges. Not to amass wee certificates.

Does one have to then do the little tests on every forum to carry visible proof of one's proficiency ? or do they get affixed to the avatar and carried around like the medals on a Russian general ?
What about folks who've done the courses with Backwoods, Woodsmoke, Forest Knights, Footsteps of Discovery ? Do they get to add their certificates to their running total too ?

For me, and a great many others, Bushcraft = chill the hell out asap I'd rather it stayed that way.

cheers,
Toddy

Exactly.

[Toddy]

I spent Sunday playing with fire in Holyrood park.....it was officially sanctioned, I was working for Historic Scotland's Ranger Service as part of Scottish Archaeology month.....in every way I could find evidence for use in the Iron Age, complete with a very wide range of tinder and kindling plants. Plants that I foraged for, or bartered with my friends for, in season, without any over exploitation of natural resources.

That's bushcraft
and I was joined by other members who came along to try, to show, to demo, too. That's bushcraft


The bcusa clearly talks of certificates of proficiency, John Fenna says he's finishing his basic and that the intermediate has been posted.....sorry, but that 'is' scout badges.

No offence to the scouts amongst us, I think you do a wonderful job, but I'm twenty five years past the time I want any involvement in scouting.

I don't have a military background, and I don't want one (again no offence intended, but military thinking does run to courses to be passed and wee patches to be worn)

I love the diversity of bushcrafting interests, the sheer range of abilities and environments, and I really wouldn't like to see that stiffled by some kind of social pressure on members to, 'Be all you can be!!!" and have the certificates (tags) to prove it. To fill some check list like Munro baggers who try to get through all of them, and do so seeing none. (The smart ones realise this and go back and do them all again, taking time to enjoy and relish each in it's own rich setting.)

Can't see how it can avoid the sleeveful of badges or the chest full of medal syndrome, tbh.

cheers,
Toddy

[mrcairney]

I think it's good they have the tutorials on the forum as knowledge is an amazing thing when it's accessible. It's also good that there doesn't *seem* to be the 'gung-ho' attitude evident in the 'student' postings either. In fact it's very laid back.

However, I don't feel the need for a badge either, but if someone wants to go through the lessons it couldn't hurt. I don't think we need a version here as it's already there; so if you wanna, have at it.

[rik_uk3]

In real terms about as much good as NVQ 1 in cake decoration.

[Miyagi]

Well said Mary.

I think structured learning suits some people and getting badged can be part of that, but it's not for everyone.

The Army has a set method which is suited to the Army.

I teach Jujutsu and that has a progressive/structured approach, necessary for safety and learning by rote, though we don't take ourselves too seriously and humour is a large part of it too. Especially when I duff it up.

When I'm doing the cooking classes in the farm kitchen it's done in a fun but firm way because of the special needs aspect and also the burny burny, sharp things there.

I use BcUSA for all the diverse stuff on there, but like you I want to enjoy my bushcraft and country skills in a leisurely "Oh I never knew that/seen that done before" kind of way.

Bimbling bushcraft is the way for me.

Liam

[johnboy]

I spent Sunday playing with fire in Holyrood park.....it was officially sanctioned, I was working for Historic Scotland's Ranger Service as part of Scottish Archaeology month.....in every way I could find evidence for use in the Iron Age, complete with a very wide range of tinder and kindling plants. Plants that I foraged for, or bartered with my friends for, in season, without any over exploitation of natural resources.That's bushcraft and I was joined by other members who came along to try, to show, to demo, too. That's bushcraft

Careful Mary you're defining what is 'officially' undefinable....As for badges etc... BCUK is happy to give away patches, stickers, leather fobs with the BCUK logo that say hey I'm part of a clan or I belong....Having a patch that says I've completed an online course in 'bushcraft' ( what ever that is) is not overly onerous...There are a lot of things that would need ironing out and a few fish hooks for BCUK to resolve but it's not a bad idea per se...

[Miyagi]

In real terms about as much good as NVQ 1 in cake decoration.

I must have been off the day they taught that one...

Liam

[John Fenna]

I spent Sunday playing with fire in Holyrood park.....it was officially sanctioned, I was working for Historic Scotland's Ranger Service as part of Scottish Archaeology month.....in every way I could find evidence for use in the Iron Age, complete with a very wide range of tinder and kindling plants. Plants that I foraged for, or bartered with my friends for, in season, without any over exploitation of natural resources.

That's bushcraft
and I was joined by other members who came along to try, to show, to demo, too. That's bushcraft


The bcusa clearly talks of certificates of proficiency, John Fenna says he's finishing his basic and that the intermediate has been posted.....sorry, but that 'is' scout badges.

No offence to the scouts amongst us, I think you do a wonderful job, but I'm twenty five years past the time I want any involvement in scouting.

I don't have a military background, and I don't want one (again no offence intended, but military thinking does run to courses to be passed and wee patches to be worn)

I love the diversity of bushcrafting interests, the sheer range of abilities and environments, and I really wouldn't like to see that stiffled by some kind of social pressure on members to, 'Be all you can be!!!" and have the certificates (tags) to prove it. To fill some check list like Munro baggers who try to get through all of them, and do so seeing none. (The smart ones realise this and go back and do them all again, taking time to enjoy and relish each in it's own rich setting.)

Can't see how it can avoid the sleeveful of badges or the chest full of medal syndrome, tbh.

cheers,
Toddy

No argument at all
Bushcraft is a broad church and one persons fun is anothers CDO (a bit like OCD but you GOTTA have the letters in alphabetical order!)
I have fun playing on my own, with others, with structures, freeform and in large groupings like the Moot - as long as it is in the woods and I am having fun it is all good in my eyes!
Oh yeh - I was never a Scout - but I was a Scout Leader for 15 years so maybe that colours my thinking

[John Fenna]

In real terms about as much good as NVQ 1 in cake decoration.

Which would be great if your interests ran to cake decoration,and wanted a structured way of learning how to improve your skills!

[Toddy]

Careful Mary you're defining what is 'officially' undefinable....As for badges etc... BCUK is happy to give away patches, stickers, leather fobs with the BCUK logo that say hey I'm part of a clan or I belong....Having a patch that says I've completed an online course in 'bushcraft' ( what ever that is) is not overly onerous...There are a lot of things that would need ironing out and a few fish hooks for BCUK to resolve but it's not a bad idea per se...

Nah, I wouldn't do that; it's waaaay to wide a topic to be tied down like that.
Your own previous posts demonstrate that you do think 'certification' is not a bad thing, so I think your bias is as inherant as mine.

Sorry, I'm giggling here, an online course in bushcraft and badges for it It's like Blue Peter
When does the sticky backed plastic come out ?

Either spend time rambling, or with friends, or go and do a reputable course....but none of them award virtual medals do they ?

Each to their own, it's a very broad kirk, but tieing it down into "Need To Know before you can be, or call yourself or have others call you, a Real Bushcrafter no, I don't think so

I know I've got a BcUK patch, somewhere....not quite sure where, (I get more use out of the wee torch), I do know where the carved leather one that says Toddy that Eric made for me is though


cheers,
M

[johnboy]

Nah, I wouldn't do that; it's waaaay to wide a topic to be tied down like that.Your own previous posts demonstrate that you do think 'certification' is not a bad thing, so I think your bias is as inherant as mine.

Agreed I am biased when it comes to having well structured and well assessed and moderated certification when you want to operate commercially.However an online course be it on BCUSA or BCUK aimed at Joe blogs who wants to learn against a set syllabus for his own benefit and knowledge is a long way from that TBH...I don't think I'd liken it to Blue Peter either....Fundamentally if it was there say in it's own sub forum folk would either take part or not and it likely would not impinge that much on the other activity on the site... If it was structured correctly and folks were happy with the concept it could become a revenue stream for BCUK to assist with the ongoing operating costs...

[Toddy]

The minute you say, "in it's own sub forum", you're starting a clique.
A clique with the sub voce but still implicit belief that the members of the aforementioned clique are 'doing it properly' therefore the rest aren't.

Since that is patently false, the premise fails.

As for it raising revenue ?? How ??
Full members and Makers pay fees that help support the site, are you suggesting that folks pay to sit on line qualifications issued by bcuk ?? Who would administer such a thing ? who would verify such a thing ? would it be worth the paper it'd be written on ? because no school in the land would accept such a 'qualification'.
The schools don't accept certificates from any other school as acceptable admission to higher level courses; any from this kind of set up would be even less highly regarded.

Besides, it's back to proscribing what is bushcraft, and since that differs from one end of the country to the other, from one season to every other, it'd be effectively hobbling it.

As for your commercial certification; I know a lot of folks who run schools, and do so with both incredible skill and ability, and damned few have certificates but that's part of the real health of the craft; it's sheer diversity.
I don't want to see it reduced and limited, constrained, to provide a 'curriculum'.
And as for a correct curriculum for us, or even for beginners buy a good book, get to a meet up, go for a walk with your eyes open, and just keep learning

cheers,
Toddy

[johnboy]

Perhaps sub forum is the wrong way of defining it...

But if you post say on the kit chatter section or on the edged tools sections regularly I that a clique??

Is having a full members only area a clique? Are we as full members a clique or just folks who enjoy the site and want to support it?

I don't know...

There might be several ways of making some revenue from an online course..

For example, at one end of the spectrum you could write the course, administer it, issue certification and charge for it.. At the other end of the spectrum you could produce and charge for one of those 'blue peter' badges folk might like to buy.



I'm sure there are lots of folk out there running commercial BC courses who are exceptionally skilled and competent in doing what they do. Likewise there may be folk out there running commercial BC courses who are not competent and have poor skills. The issue is how can you tell who is who??

Certification for commercial provision in the UK may or may not be required in the future.. Currently it's not. Anyhow I think we both agree following an on line syllabus for simple enjoyment and personal skills development is a long way from that and is really what were discussing...

Personally I don't see what harm it can do?

[Toddy]

Back to the holier than thou bit. If there were no certification, no racking up the grades, no steps to 'bushcraft credentials', would we be having this discussion ?

Somehow I don't think the topic would have come up in this fashion.

Is full members a clique ? No, you pay your subs and you're in; we don't vet people for it, and while they are thanked, and appreciated for supporting the site, and allowed to sell on Members and Full Members Classifieds, etc., they aren't perceived as being better 'bushcrafters' than anyone else.

Define bushcraft ? Who among the online has that right ? It's too wide in it's scope, it's very laisse faire attitude is what genuinely appeals to most who participate
I certainly don't want it contained, constrained and certificated like a kid 'graduating' from nursery school.

Good bushcraft teachers gain reputation, and in doing so, high regard.
Heck of a lot of wannabe's with youtube experience out there though.
If something like this takes off then it'll end up needing a 'certificate' before we can pick brambles


cheers,
M

[johnboy]

Mary

I thought your point was if an online Bushcraft class sub forum thingy was set up it would become a clique... Yet in theory folk could come and go from it and take part if they wanted no one is forcing anyone to take part no clique has developed it's just currently a supposition that a clique might develop and things go Nuclear isn't it?

I agree 'bushcraft' is an expansive topic and difficult to define.. But there are what you might call 'core skills' that we like to discuss and post on, fire making might be one for example, shelter building might be another one it might be reasonable that these core skills could for the basis of any syllabus...When you think about it apart from the difference in delivery online module v attending a course. Would the syllabus fundamentally be any different for a basic bush course..????

[rik_uk3]

Well I got a Blue Peter badge AND a Cracker Jack pencil so there