Mastino P2 Bushshirt

[Pandabean]

Great to see them finally being made up. Looking good to me , but noticed there were a few alterations to the original design which is what I originally wanted or planned to have, these are mostly the zipped neck and the pockets, plus the metal buttons on them. Not too sure if actual buttons would be any easier to open and close and easier to replace in the future through wear and tear.
Will the zip be any better than a tied opening or even an overlap area similar to the Swedish snow smock for keeping out the wind.

[Leonidas]

A company that agree's to make a product, fails to deliver nearly two years later, then at another crest of hope, quietly publishes the fact it has changed the specification, unilaterally, AGAIN.....
My goodness, I'd expect these folks to be flamed or at the very least become department of defense suppliers.........(DOD suppliers usually deliver late by several years as standard, then shun responsibility).



Well for me this is quite literally approaching the final thread...and I suspect this is what certain quarters are hoping many will think!!
Have recently sent a request for specification items, very much within the original, to only be ignored...(excerpts from email / PM sent at foot of post).
I was expecting some of the options to now be standard given the price increase.


Specifically, a zipper at the neck, a cheaper and sub standard alternative to the original button / flap design, a zip neck is not only a weak spot in terms of strength but unless the zip is of exceptional quality will be the first point of failure, could catch the neck and in extreme cold fail when you need it most....!


Quote from Endicotts web site. - #2 MASTINO P2 will 'go into production' commencing the first week of October.
I am now looking at after sales service, will it be there? After sales can take longer to conclude than production......


If I conducted business like this I would expect to be ostracized, and on a personal level, my patience has been tested, the tipping point of submitting a post like this is, being sold a product which, after specification and price was agreed.....and deposit taken, will now be of a lesser specification with a 50% uplift in price.


So wishing to garner something from this overly long experience, I am 'again' requesting a bush shirt within original and agreed specification (As requested privately and subsequently ignored, see below)

(and a clue for the cheap seats.....I'll work with folks to reach mutual change (of spec for example), but when I am treated like an idiot.

Yours respectfully
Tom



Excerpts from email / PM thread below.
Note: the production spec includes the zip.....no way folks are going to remove a zip post production and stitch in a flap and buttons etc......

------------------------------------------------------



Originally Posted by Leonidas
Hi LBL - To confirm, I have paid my deposit

Re the alterations:-
Double thickness layer where it is sat on, you may recall this was going to
be an option....not sure if it is in the standard spec for version 2 of the
shirt.
Pockets but no openings to the elements i.e. slits at the side to put your
hands in.
No zip for the neck...a zip catching the neck skin on a cold day is not
nice, it will also chaff....the zip can also freeze up in extreme
cold......prefer the leather trimmed lace up neck of the original design.
Length, version 2 looks a little shorter than the original mastino, longer
is one of the attractions of the design, I am hoping it will still be a
length that at the back reaches approx half way down the back of the thigh
and is a little higher at the front.


I may have missed the final spec on version 2??

Cheers
Tom

-----------------------------------------------------------


-----Original Message-----
From: Tom Law
Sent: Tuesday, October 11, 2011 1:24 PM
To: kevin@endicotts.co.uk
Subject: Enquiry from Endicotts Army Surplus


Message for Kev

Been having a discussion with LBL on BCUK re the mastino shirts....
(Paid deposit and am No 9 on the list)

LBL has now passed me onto Kev...
Would appreciate a timeline for the bush shirt and if at least some of the
alterations are either incorporated in the production P" or can be
incorporated after?

Cheers
Tom

[sasquatch]

Hmm...the pocket change I could live with but I really don't fancy a zip on this for winter use! I quite liked the original closure. I wonder how many have already been made? A bit of discussion on a major change would have been a good thing.

I hate to add to the negativity but I never would have wanted a zip on one of these. On the plus side at least they're being made?

[Chrisj]

It's great to see them being made at last. BUT. I agree with others comments regarding those lower pockets. I don't like the look of them and I think handwarmer pocket(s) would be much more useful (to me anyway). Something like the pockets that are normally found on hoodies, that you can put your hands into from either side. As long as the zip is good quality and has a flap behind it to stop wind and chaffing then the use of a zip doesn't offend me unduly.

[treadlightly]

I dropped out a few weeks ago when my sensible side decided I didn't need another warm thing, but, for what its worth, I like the pockets as they add secure storage space which was lacking on the original. No objections to the zip either as long as it has a baffle behind it. A couple of hand warmers above the pockets would be perfect imho.

[VirusKiller]

I agree that pockets would be useful, but perhaps breast pockets would be a better option?

[littlebiglane]

I have passed comments on to Kev. I am sure they'll be noted. As for me I am just trying my best. I am not really part of the operation and am working at it third hand now. I will be resigning from the forum after this is put to bed if that helps and am only staying on to try and see if I can nudge it along to a successful conclusion.

I can only imagine there will be a smaller run in the beginning and with feedback there might be subsequent tweaks. I have no idea about the zip change and the metal poppers. Pockets seem alright to me. If anyone wants to drop out I am sure that can be arranged. Things have moved on and have changed. Unfortunate though that may seem it is where we are and what it took to get things to move forward. Yes it is more expensive...but not expensive when looking an near comparisons...no it is not bespoke....this was made clear under the P2 version. Kev is the one to talk to about subsequent mods and tweaks. Lets hope the first batch is good enough to at least satisfy those willing to go ahead and try them out.

Please remember that Endicotts is a pretty great little company that is one of our last genuine surplus stores. Kev always trys to go the extra mile and there have been many, many happy customers. He has also been responsible for some fantastic scoops such as the DanCam smock deal that was run twice on BCUK. He always enjoys the interaction with BCUK and has always spoken very highly of us and the bushcraft fraternity. However he is a small business and I think sometimes people forget just how busy he is - he works 6 to 7 days a week and is totally committed to running his business. In this case he has teamed up with Arktis - an altogether much bigger outfit - but I expect he is lower priority in their rather big operation - and he does not quite have the control he had when he had Peggy doing the stuff - but then we have been down that route and that ended up as not possible. Kev stuck with it and is still trying to find a positive outcome for everyone and I expect is not making as much as a brass farthing after all costs, time and materials are considered.

[treadlightly]

I have passed comments on to Kev. I am sure they'll be noted. As for me I am just trying my best. I am not really part of the operation and am working at it third hand now. I will be resigning from the forum after this is put to bed if that helps and am only staying on to try and see if I can nudge it along to a successful conclusion.

I can only imagine there will be a smaller run in the beginning and with feedback there might be subsequent tweaks. I have no idea about the zip change and the metal poppers. Pockets seem alright to me. If anyone wants to drop out I am sure that can be arranged. Things have moved on and have changed. Unfortunate though that may seem it is where we are and what it took to get things to move forward. Yes it is more expensive...but not expensive when looking an near comparisons...no it is not bespoke....this was made clear under the P2 version. Kev is the one to talk to about subsequent mods and tweaks. Lets hope the first batch is good enough to at least satisfy those willing to go ahead and try them out.

Please remember that Endicotts is a pretty great little company that is one of our last genuine surplus stores. Kev always trys to go the extra mile and there have been many, many happy customers. He has also been responsible for some fantastic scoops such as the DanCam smock deal that was run twice on BCUK. He always enjoys the interaction with BCUK and has always spoken very highly of us and the bushcraft fraternity. However he is a small business and I think sometimes people forget just how busy he is - he works 6 to 7 days a week and is totally committed to running his business. In this case he has teamed up with Arktis - an altogether much bigger outfit - but I expect he is lower priority in their rather big operation - and he does not quite have the control he had when he had Peggy doing the stuff - but then we have been down that route and that ended up as not possible. Kev stuck with it and is still trying to find a positive outcome for everyone and I expect is not making as much as a brass farthing after all costs, time and materials are considered.

LBL,

You leaving the forum leaves many on here, myself included, very sad and sorry. I don't know why you've taken this decision but I'm sure you have your reasons and I would not wish to pry.

I have always been very appreciative of the time and effort you have put into what has turned out, through no fault of your own, a long and difficult GB. You have done a brilliant job, thank you. My leaving the GB had nothing to do with the time it was taking to complete, more a realisation I no longer needed a smock like this.

I also share your high opinion of Kev and Endicotts and this episode has in no way affected that.

Maybe you will change your mind?

best,
Geraint.

[sasquatch]

Wow, don't be so critical of yourself mate! That's crazy talk! None of this would be happening if you hadn't started it, you've got it this far and it must have been a logistical nightmare to do so. No need to quit the forum, be proud to be the man that got this off the ground!

As for Kev and Endicotts and Peggy's efforts, I've always sung their praise. He's gone out of his way to see this through as well as run a business and I fully appreciate that.

My post looks worse than what it was intended, I just know from experience I don't get on well with zips around my face in the winter. The way I worded it probably wasn't the best but no offence was intended. I asked how many were being made in the initial batch in hopes of finding out if they could be made without a zip but didn't make that very clear.

I can live with the pockets. My moan is the zip. If I can get one without, that would be great. If I can't I'll have to live with it or mod it myself. As mentioned in previous posts I think the material will justify the cost and be superior to similar products.

They're being done, happy days. I would like to thank all involved for their efforts and hope my post didn't come across as offensive. I just can't stand zips near my face in cold weather. Let's see what happens and go from there, no need for panic just yet!

[Chrisj]

It's really sad to hear that you are thinking of leaving the forum LBL. I really hope it isn't solely because of this group buy. Without you it would never have started let alone gotten this far. I don't consider the delays to be the fault of you or Kev it is just one of those things. I actually think that the two of you have had the patience of saints to keep at it this long and not just pull the plug.

[Pepperana]

Come on. Look at how many guys are still in. Its has its bumps but its still all going good.
Cheer up and drink a beer!
Nobody to blame here. You and Kev went beyond to do this!

[Pandabean]

LBL, I hope you aren't serious about leaving the forum once the project is done. You have done great work and held out this long with the project, also you have done great work in the past organising the GB with Kev and I am thankful for that. So I hope you reconsider.

I also agree with you regarding Kev and his store, great guy who does alot, I am sure most other people/businesses would have given up long ago but Kev has managed to keep it going, even if it has taken a while.

It is understandable the design may change due to the length of time and various people making them, but hopefully the changes are for the better. In fact I had a closer look at the photographs on Kev's site and I can see that there is what appears to be a flap of material behind the zip, it isn't clear but there is something there.

I have waited this long and I am happy to wait longer, but it looks like things are moving in the right direction and hopefully the wait won't be too much longer.

What would be interesting in the end is to see a comparrison between Version 1 and the latest model.

Hope you change your mind in the end.

[littlebiglane]

Fuller update on Endicott's site - plus concerns answered about the zip (no - there will be lace-up closure instead) and the pockets (most of them will have hand-warmer thru pockets).

http://www.endicotts.co.uk/product_i...oducts_id=2465

[markheolddu]

I have passed comments on to Kev. I am sure they'll be noted. As for me I am just trying my best. I am not really part of the operation and am working at it third hand now. I will be resigning from the forum after this is put to bed if that helps and am only staying on to try and see if I can nudge it along to a successful conclusion.

I can only imagine there will be a smaller run in the beginning and with feedback there might be subsequent tweaks. I have no idea about the zip change and the metal poppers. Pockets seem alright to me. If anyone wants to drop out I am sure that can be arranged. Things have moved on and have changed. Unfortunate though that may seem it is where we are and what it took to get things to move forward. Yes it is more expensive...but not expensive when looking an near comparisons...no it is not bespoke....this was made clear under the P2 version. Kev is the one to talk to about subsequent mods and tweaks. Lets hope the first batch is good enough to at least satisfy those willing to go ahead and try them out.

Please remember that Endicotts is a pretty great little company that is one of our last genuine surplus stores. Kev always trys to go the extra mile and there have been many, many happy customers. He has also been responsible for some fantastic scoops such as the DanCam smock deal that was run twice on BCUK. He always enjoys the interaction with BCUK and has always spoken very highly of us and the bushcraft fraternity. However he is a small business and I think sometimes people forget just how busy he is - he works 6 to 7 days a week and is totally committed to running his business. In this case he has teamed up with Arktis - an altogether much bigger outfit - but I expect he is lower priority in their rather big operation - and he does not quite have the control he had when he had Peggy doing the stuff - but then we have been down that route and that ended up as not possible. Kev stuck with it and is still trying to find a positive outcome for everyone and I expect is not making as much as a brass farthing after all costs, time and materials are considered.

Mate Dont be so hard on yourself you have done an epic job of keeping this group buy alive we all know its been a long journey but without your hard work and drive it would have been a non starter. Please think again about leaving the forum. Endicotts rep has only gone up to most of us because of the work put in by Kev and Peggy.

Mark

[Chrisj]

Fuller update on Endicott's site - plus concerns answered about the zip (no - there will be lace-up closure instead) and the pockets (most of them will have hand-warmer thru pockets).

http://www.endicotts.co.uk/product_i...oducts_id=2465

Sounds spot on. Can't wait until mine is ready.

[redneck]

It's hard to argue with what Kev has said in that link above, he is certainly very sincere about making this turn out right and I'm sure with that sort of dedication it actually will..and I quite like the 2 patch pockets

[Trunks]

LBL, you have done a cracking job sticking with this, most would have given up, so good on you.

Alas, in the time it has taken to sort this GB out, my circumstances have changed - second child! So, sadly I will have to drop out, sorry.

2 korvin karbon (confirmed) (deposit paid)
3 techworm (confirmed) (deposit paid)
4 TeeDee - done
5 welshwhit (confirmed) (deposit paid)
6 lewiman201 (confirmed) (deposit paid)
7 BushEd (confirmed) (deposit paid)
8 coln18 (confirmed) (deposit paid)
9 Leonidas (confirmed) (deposit paid) - check
10 Pepperana (confirmed) (deposit paid)
11 verloc
12 Torak
13 Lincs Bushman
14 markheolddu ( Removed)
15 sasquatch - confirmed
16 The Cumbrian - confirmed
17 bushcraftsman
18 Pandabean
19 MikeE
20 calibanzwei
21 Tetley
22 Melonfish
23 kpmoloney
24 Littlebiglane (confirmed, deposit paid)
25 kawasemi (Confirmed)
26 HarryHawk (confirmed)
27 Goatboy
28 Chrisj (confrimed)
29 deepforest2501
30 Cliv (confirmed)
31 Peterlee_Paddler
32 Northsky
33 Smokoe
34 Treadlightly (withdrawn)
35 Enzo
36 OliveDrabnotDPM
37 Mike8472 (confirmed)
38 HillBill
39 hiraeth
40 stickbow
41 kimba
42 rawshak
43 redneck
44 Atross, ( removed )
45 widu13
46 garybeaver (confirmed)
47 Dutchdave
48 Trunks (removed)
49 nickg
50 pinerevolver

Reserve list:
51: jimjolli
52: VirusKiller (confirmed)
53: dave53
54: mrcairney
55: DUCky
56: luckylee.
57: RichardIT
58: Mafro
59: Scoman - Large 60:Born Slippy
60: Stringmaker - Medium

[hiraeth]

Spoke to kev at endicotts this afternoon, and the shirts are coming along well, sounds like they should be done soon. Think that they will be well worth the wait.

[littlebiglane]

1 Mesquite - done/complete
2 korvin karbon (deposit paid) - tbc on status from Kev
3 techworm - (deposit paid) - awaiting re-confirmation
4 TeeDee - done/complete
5 welshwhit - done/complete
6 lewiman201 - (deposit paid) - awaiting re-confirmation
7 BushEd - (deposit paid) - awaiting re-confirmation
8 coln18 (re-confirmed) (deposit paid) - (XL)
9 Leonidas (re-confirmed) (deposit paid) - (XL)
10 Pepperana (re-confirmed) (deposit paid) - check
11 verloc
12 Torak (confirmed)
13 Lincs Bushman
14 markheolddu (cancelled)
15 sasquatch - confirmed
16 The Cumbrian - confirmed
17 bushcraftsman
18 Pandabean - confirmed (small)
19 MikeE
20 calibanzwei
21 Tetley
22 Melonfish
23 kpmoloney
24 Littlebiglane (confirmed, deposit paid)
25 kawasemi (confirmed)
26 HarryHawk (confirmed)
27 Goatboy
28 Chrisj (confrimed)
29 deepforest2501
30 Cliv (confirmed)
31 Peterlee_Paddler
32 Northsky
33 Smokoe
34 Treadlightly (cancelled)
35 Enzo
36 OliveDrabnotDPM
37 Mike8472 (cancelled)
38 HillBill
39 hiraeth (confirmed, xxl)
40 stickbow
41 kimba (confirmed)
42 rawshak
43 redneck
44 Atross (cancelled)
45 widu13 (confirmed + size L)
46 garybeaver (confirmed)
47 Dutchdave
48 Trunks
49 nickg
50 pinerevolver

Reserve list:
51: jimjolli (confirmed)
52: VirusKiller (confirmed)
53: dave53 (confirmed)
54: mrcairney (confirmed)
55: DUCky (confirmed)
56: luckylee (confirmed)
57: RichardIT (confirmed)
58: Twodogs (confirmed)
59: Mafro (confirmed)
60: Scoman - (confirmed - Large)
61: Born Slippy (confirmed)
62: Stringmaker - (confirmed) Medium

[Pepperana]

10 Pepperana (re-confirmed) (deposit paid) - check

Is my Size complete? Kevin has my measurements. He took them himself when I was over in Exeter.
I think M ore L Maybe L better because of the multi layer. My Arktis smock is a M.

I am always in the M/L range. Arggg. Isnt it better to have airspace between the layers for insulation?

[redneck]

Quick question about the chest sizes mentioned in the first post , are they pit to pit measurements or recommended chest sizes?..( I always find pit to pit measurements easier to deal with)

[The Cumbrian]

1 Mesquite - done/complete
2 korvin karbon (deposit paid) - tbc on status from Kev
3 techworm - (deposit paid) - awaiting re-confirmation
4 TeeDee - done/complete You
5 welshwhit - done/complete
6 lewiman201 - (deposit paid) - awaiting re-confirmation
7 BushEd - (deposit paid) - awaiting re-confirmation
8 coln18 (re-confirmed) (deposit paid) - (XL)
9 Leonidas (re-confirmed) (deposit paid) - (XL)
10 Pepperana (re-confirmed) (deposit paid) - check
11 verloc
12 Torak (confirmed)
13 Lincs Bushman
14 markheolddu (cancelled)
15 sasquatch - confirmed
16 The Cumbrian - confirmed - XXL
17 bushcraftsman
18 Pandabean - confirmed (small)
19 MikeE
20 calibanzwei
21 Tetley
22 Melonfish
23 kpmoloney
24 Littlebiglane (confirmed, deposit paid)
25 kawasemi (confirmed)
26 HarryHawk (confirmed)
27 Goatboy
28 Chrisj (confrimed)
29 deepforest2501
30 Cliv (confirmed)
31 Peterlee_Paddler
32 Northsky
33 Smokoe
34 Treadlightly (cancelled)
35 Enzo
36 OliveDrabnotDPM
37 Mike8472 (cancelled)
38 HillBill
39 hiraeth (confirmed, xxl)
40 stickbow
41 kimba (confirmed)
42 rawshak
43 redneck
44 Atross (cancelled)
45 widu13 (confirmed + size L)
46 garybeaver (confirmed)
47 Dutchdave
48 Trunks
49 nickg
50 pinerevolver

Reserve list:
51: jimjolli (confirmed)
52: VirusKiller (confirmed)
53: dave53 (confirmed)
54: mrcairney (confirmed)
55: DUCky (confirmed)
56: luckylee (confirmed)
57: RichardIT (confirmed)
58: Twodogs (confirmed)
59: Mafro (confirmed)
60: Scoman - (confirmed - Large)
61: Born Slippy (confirmed)
62: Stringmaker - (confirmed) Medium

Just added my size.

Cheers, Michael.

[Torak]

LBL

Thanks for sorting this and sticking with but I am going to have to pull out-sorry
Torak1 Mesquite - done/complete
2 korvin karbon (deposit paid) - tbc on status from Kev
3 techworm - (deposit paid) - awaiting re-confirmation
4 TeeDee - done/complete You
5 welshwhit - done/complete
6 lewiman201 - (deposit paid) - awaiting re-confirmation
7 BushEd - (deposit paid) - awaiting re-confirmation
8 coln18 (re-confirmed) (deposit paid) - (XL)
9 Leonidas (re-confirmed) (deposit paid) - (XL)
10 Pepperana (re-confirmed) (deposit paid) - check
11 verloc
12 Torak (confirmed)-cancelled
13 Lincs Bushman
14 markheolddu (cancelled)
15 sasquatch - confirmed
16 The Cumbrian - confirmed - XXL
17 bushcraftsman
18 Pandabean - confirmed (small)
19 MikeE
20 calibanzwei
21 Tetley
22 Melonfish
23 kpmoloney
24 Littlebiglane (confirmed, deposit paid)
25 kawasemi (confirmed)
26 HarryHawk (confirmed)
27 Goatboy
28 Chrisj (confrimed)
29 deepforest2501
30 Cliv (confirmed)
31 Peterlee_Paddler
32 Northsky
33 Smokoe
34 Treadlightly (cancelled)
35 Enzo
36 OliveDrabnotDPM
37 Mike8472 (cancelled)
38 HillBill
39 hiraeth (confirmed, xxl)
40 stickbow
41 kimba (confirmed)
42 rawshak
43 redneck
44 Atross (cancelled)
45 widu13 (confirmed + size L)
46 garybeaver (confirmed)
47 Dutchdave
48 Trunks
49 nickg
50 pinerevolver

Reserve list:
51: jimjolli (confirmed)
52: VirusKiller (confirmed)
53: dave53 (confirmed)
54: mrcairney (confirmed)
55: DUCky (confirmed)
56: luckylee (confirmed)
57: RichardIT (confirmed)
58: Twodogs (confirmed)
59: Mafro (confirmed)
60: Scoman - (confirmed - Large)
61: Born Slippy (confirmed)
62: Stringmaker - (confirmed) Medium

[Pepperana]

Any Updates on this?
Its almost Christmas!

[Pepperana]

A week has gone.
Any Updates on this?
Christmas is one week closer!

[widu13]

Post not required.

[Leonidas]

I've emailed Kev at Endicott's and will advise when there is a response....

I see from the Endicott site that production started on 10th November....even pretty pics to show one being made......
Do not wish to speculate at this point so let's wait to see what the response is.

Cheers
Tom

[littlebiglane]

I'll drop Kev a line also and find out.

LBL

[Leonidas]

A couple of large orders have come into Arktis, given the bush shirt is small fry for Arktis it has been put on hold.

Would not hold out for Yuletide, it will be along as and when.


In summary.
It's a case of the bush shirt will probably be very good....moreso as it will be assembled by one of the mainstream manufacturers...
The flip side is that it is a small project, as such is being worked on during operator downtime....and is being pulled out of production as and when another mainstream order crops up.....

[Chrisj]

This has been on going for a couple of years now (not implying that it's anyones fault, just one of those things) so another few weeks won't make too much difference to me. Looks like it will be worth waiting for.