is this a shrew or a vole?

[Man of Tanith]

sorry for poor quality pics they're off my phone
say several of these wee beasties over the weekend packing stuff into the woods for our over nighter and shannon wants to know what they are, i haven't a clue so i bow to the forums superior knowledge

[JonathanD]

Neither, it's a young Wood mouse.

[beenn]

vole i think out of the two options

but looks like a hamster/mouse

[Man of Tanith]

Neither, it's a young Wood mouse.

D'oh that was my third guess
would explain why they were happily romping around on the footpath too young to know better

[Ed]

Shrews tend to have longer noses.

Ed

[JonathanD]

This time of year I find loads under the refugia we use to attract reptiles. We call them fast food and they don't last long in those locations.

[Bushwhacker]

What JD said. The eyes are quite distinct.

[ged]

... they don't last long in those locations.

Just as well or we'd be knee deep in 'em they way they breed!

[maddave]

These guys are remarkably tame when young. If you approach slowly and hold out your palm, sometimes they hop straight on !!

[bushwacker bob]

Shrews tend to have longer noses.

Ed

and no tail

[Bushwhacker]

and no tail

And sharp pointy teeth. To me they're more akin to a mole than anything rodent-like.

[JonathanD]

And sharp pointy teeth. To me they're more akin to a mole than anything rodent-like.

Shrews belong to the same family as hedgehogs and moles. They aren't rodents. They give a really nasy bite to... the swines

[Paul_B]

Saw a weasel (or stoat never can tell) hunting after a shrew once. The shrew came along the undergrowth crossed the road then along the undergrowth making a bit of a racket. I followed the noise hoping for another look until I heard the slightly louder shuffling noise on the other side of the road where the shrew had come from. I stopped and turned to see the weasel/stoat follow the exact route the shrew took. Anyway it ignored me as it was on the hunt. I thought the shrew's a gonna and sure enough I heard the two shufffling through the undergrowth noises converge, a loud squeal before job done and the one shuffling noise going along the undergrowth next to the road.

I'm not sure which I see out of the stoat or weasel but I've seen almost all of the sightings of those in the lakes. It is surprising (to me) how many I've seen there. From the hunting on the crags for nesting birds in spring to later sightings on open fells. They always stop for bit to check you out. Then more on and one or two more looks back to see what you're doing. Amazing animals to watch. Some sightings last a good five minutes too. Better than the glimpses out the corner of my eye in the past.

Deffo a mouse. Not long enough snout for a shrew and not a vole for other reasons. BTW anyone know if its the mouse, shrew or vole that pisses as it walks and its **** glows in UV so that Kestrels can follow them when hunting?? Saw something about one of those being hunted by it's glowing UV pee trails and the Kestrel being able to see in the UV spectrum as a hunting advantage in evolution.

[ged]

S...BTW anyone know if its the mouse, shrew or vole that pisses as it walks and its **** glows in UV so that Kestrels can follow them...?

Well I don't think they do it so that kestrels can follow them...

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...etmammals.html

[Bushwhacker]

BTW anyone know if its the mouse, shrew or vole that pisses as it walks and its **** glows in UV so that Kestrels can follow them when hunting?? Saw something about one of those being hunted by it's glowing UV pee trails and the Kestrel being able to see in the UV spectrum as a hunting advantage in evolution.

I don't think it's to do with the species of animal that leaves a trail.
It's a defence mechanism of a certain plant/grass I think. If something eats it, it makes the urine glow UV and then the animal that ate the plant gets predated upon and removed from the picture never to eat another plant again.

I'll try and look up the facts when I get a chance.

[Paul_B]

Bushwhacker - I got it from a recent wildlife programme from the Bristol crew at BBC. Could have been part of the Springwatch shenanigans. Or countryfile. Letting you know my TV viewing habits a bit. Thank goodness I never saw it on a TV soap. I'm a TV flicker (freeview as I'm too cheap for SKy - I mean morally object to using Sky) and wildlife programmes of any sort stops me flicking for a bit. The Kestrel bit was more about how it had an advantage due to the UV vision. The UV component is part of the particular prey type they specialise on which come to think of it I think is Voles. I got the impression it was the voles who put the UV visible bit in pee no mention of plants but that could be error by omission on their part.

Ged - I like that idea, kind of a lemmings off a cliff (I know that is a myth) by deliberately peeing UV visible urine for Kestrels to catch them. The population grows too big and like with that soylent green film the older ones start peeing UV visible and get eaten.

[Bushwhacker]

I fear my brain may have fabricated what I said previously, can't seem to find anything about it but brain is telling me I've seen it somewhere.
I'm having an internal conflict again.

[JonathanD]

It is Field voles that produce this. As they travel, Field voles leave a trail of scent to warn off other voles. Kestrels, look out for the UV light that radiates from these trails.

[Bushwhacker]

Aha, found something about it. I knew I wasn't going mad (no I didn't)

Consumption of grass endophytes alters the ultraviolet spectrum of vole urine.
Huitu O, Helander M, Lehtonen P, Saikkonen K.
SourceSuonenjoki Research Unit, Finnish Forest Research Institute, Juntintie 154, 77600 Suonenjoki, Finland. otso.huitu@metla.fi

Abstract
Fungal endophytes of grasses are known to benefit their hosts directly by increasing resistance to herbivores through mycotoxins. We propose and test assumptions of a novel hypothesis according to which fungal endophytes of grasses may benefit their hosts also indirectly by increasing the conspicuousness of a mammalian herbivore, the field vole (Microtus agrestis), to its avian predators by enhancing the ultraviolet visibility of vole urine. We found that field voles feeding on endophyte-infected meadow ryegrass (Lolium pratense) lost body mass, while voles feeding on non-infected meadow ryegrass gained mass. More interestingly, the maximum peak intensity of ultraviolet fluorescence in the urine of voles feeding on endophyte-infected grass shifted from over 380 nm to circa 370 nm, which is the suggested maximum sensitivity of the ultraviolet pigments in the eyes of vole-eating raptors. Therefore, grazing on endophyte-infected grass alters the ultraviolet spectrum of vole urine, thus potentially enhancing its visibility to avian predators

[JonathanD]

That makes sense. Many animals derive toxins and special secretions from the plants within their environments.