Sub Zero Crew (Fahrenheit not Centigrade)

[forestwalker]

That looks useful too, and there is an English translation which is helpful as well.

What? You mean everyone in the world does not understand Swedish? Strange world we have these days...

Can you print off maps from there or is it an order service for paper copies?

I *think* you can screen-grab bits, and perhaps also download GIS source files for smaller sections, but it was years since I had the need for that, so I have no idea what the current policy is.

I have similar problems with timing but I can at least take the time off.

I just lose a lot of money if I do it in term time.

I can take the time off, but a week would cost me 25% of that months pay. During breaks I can get away free of charge, so to say.

[Wayland]

Since virtually all my income is made during term time a week in a busy term cuts into my pocket even harder than that unfortunately.

Having said that I wouldn't change a thing and I don't let it stop me doing something I really want.

[tedw]

Count me in as a definite maybe!

1. udamiano
2. Teepee
3. Wayland
4. Lennart
5. Imagedude
6. Ted W

I'd go for the train option, and the forest hut with days/nights out in shelters as I pleased, so I'd want to be free to cut wood and make fire - but it's good to have a warm dry place to get back to if things turn bad! Not bothered where in the snowy North we go, particularly - the markt would only be one interesting day for me - so if Forestwalker has contacts we can use, why not? And I fully understand this is an individual journey I'm undertaking on my own volition and at my own risk!

Cheers, Ted

[Chris the Cat]

Yep, defo maybe.
da C.

[udamiano]

so been doing a little bit of research.

It seems that there are two possible options for the Brits intending to go

1. Fly to Stockholm, then catch the sleeper train to Jokkmokk there is one change (onto the local line, I think this is at Gallivare)
2. Fly to Lulea (London Airports) can catch a local train to Jokkmokk

Lulea is about 50 miles SE of Jokkmokk, but I'm unsure of the local train station (if there is one) or prices

Stockholm will probably be cheaper as its a larger more international airports (there are 3), which services a larger number of carries and flights. I used the 'Arlanda' airport as this has a number of flights from the UK from many off our international airports (Manchester,Liverpool, Birmingham,etc)
The sleeper train costs about £400 return if you want a single private cabin with all the trimmings

For those who really do like to fly.. a third option if you don't mind the cost

you can get an internal flight from Arlanda to Gallivare for about SEK 3698.00 then you would need to get to Jokkmokk either by train or bus ? (about 73Km)

Jokkmokk airport is approx 17Km from the town centre.

I've emailed Jokkmokk's tourist office to enquire as to any other options for international flights and exchanges

There is a campsite situated just on the outskirts of the town for those hardy souls who wish to camp. I've emailed them to ask about season opening, and rough costs and facilities although from what i did see, it looked pretty much top notch on that score

Any more info, Ill post over the time between now and going

[drewdunnrespect]

So Bob, are you happy to take full responsibility for Drew and other inexperienced peoples safety on such an event? I know I'm not.

We were fortunate not to face extreme conditions on the Arctic course that has just run. There I would agree with the statement made above but had the conditions been -30°C or colder, like the temperatures faced at this years Jokkmokk Market things could have been very different.

I'm afraid I think attendance of a professionally run course or similar experience such as military training, should be a minimum requirement for people joining this project.

i agree wayland and that is why i stated my interest but said i would have leave out untill i had the required skills and equipment

drew

[udamiano]

i agree wayland and that is why i stated my interest but said i would have leave out untill i had the required skills and equipment

drew

Very sensible approach drew

[Wayland]

1. udamiano
2. Teepee
3. Wayland
4. Lennart
5. Imagedude
6. Ted W
7. Chris the Cat

New thread started here.

[GearGuru]

Hi Guys

My eyes are going gaga trying to find the suggested dates - can anyone point me in the right direction? cheers

[udamiano]

Hi Guys

My eyes are going gaga trying to find the suggested dates - can anyone point me in the right direction? cheers

Just click on the 'New Thread started here' link in the post 128

[GearGuru]

Tar for that

[Bushwhacker]

I'm afraid I think attendance of a professionally run course or similar experience such as military training, should be a minimum requirement for people joining this project.

Is that saying that one has to be qualified to attend?

[Imagedude]

Is that saying that one has to be qualified to attend?

No, just competent and self sufficient.

[Bushwhacker]

No, just competent and self sufficient.

Who decides that?

[Wayland]

Unfortunately it comes down to responsibility.

We are not a business, nor are we a constituted club or society and we are therefore not insured or indemnified.

Everyone attending has to do so on their own responsibility.

Of course we will look out for each other, as any reasonable person would, but if people start losing fingers or toes from frost bite we can't afford for them to come after us for some kind of compensation because they didn't know what they were getting into.

This is a meet up and nothing more.

In order to facilitate this meet up we may be able to organise some group discounts for travelling and the like but that implies no responsibility.

We recommend that people attending make sensible preparations of their own such as taking a relevant course or gaining prior experience in this kind of environment. We may advise them or even make suggestions about the type of equipment that would be wise to take to such a meet up but it is down to individuals to take such measures and precautions themselves.

There is nothing to stop anybody booking into a hotel or a camp site on their own and meeting us there. However, if they want to join us in organization of group discounts etc. we will probably ask whether they have some experience and suitable equipment.

As someone said above, watching people die of hypothermia is not on our wish list.

[Imagedude]

Who decides that?

You do, attendees should be confident that they will be comfortable regardless of weather conditions and will be able to cope without needing the help of others. Are you thinking of simply going to the market or staying longer and doing exciting stuff?

[rik_uk3]

Your going a month a so earlier next year so are likely to experience proper Arctic weather, do you think you now have enough experience to be there without an experienced guide/tutor?

[Wayland]

I'll be out on the edge of my confidence that's for sure.

All the more reason that I don't want to be babysitting someone with even less experience.

[udamiano]

Your going a month a so earlier next year so are likely to experience proper Arctic weather, do you think you now have enough experience to be there without an experienced guide/tutor?

Simply Yes, I've both .

The expected weather conditions will be about -30 - -40 degrees Celsius not including the windchill for those interested. and a couple of metres of snow fall

As noted above, any individual undertakes this purely under their own choice, This has only been advertised in the context of a group meet, that just happens to be within the arctic circle, and as thus any individual must make their own decision as to their suitability to attend, In the same way you would do so, on any other meet. As Wayland and myself have pointed out This is not being offered as any sort of course, any member who attends does so under the understanding that NO liability is accepted by ANY member attending for any other member attending, So If unsure as to whether, or not the appropriate experience exists, I would suggest the case would be no. It has also been pointed out that anyone is more than capable of supplying their own transport, accommodation, and merely attending on their own, without meeting others.

I will be taking amble equipment and supplies conclusive to the area that I'm staying, and will also have appropriate emergency and contingency plans for the worst case scenarios, with the equipment to support.
I would strongly advise others to make similar plans, and have appropriate equipment to support this environment. Any member of this meet is NOT liable or responsible for any other member, or their suitability, or equipment, It is just a few like minded people who happen to be traveling to the same place, at the same time, and have decided to travel together.

Thank you however for your concern, which should be noted.

[udamiano]

You do, attendees should be confident that they will be comfortable regardless of weather conditions and will be able to cope without needing the help of others. Are you thinking of simply going to the market or staying longer and doing exciting stuff?

Ow yes, Ive got a whole list of fun stuff, that i want to do, while I'm there and it keeps getting bigger. definitely going to be like a fat kid in a sweet shop

[rik_uk3]

What happens if someone turns up and you don't think they or their kit is good enough?

Jokkmokk average temps (coldest winter) is around -19c / -3f will it be much colder where you camp? http://www.climatetemp.info/sweden/jokkmokk.html

[Wayland]

Then it will be nice to have known them...

What isn't clear?

We may advise you not to go but if you go anyway and are not up to the job you may die or lose parts of your anatomy.

That will not be the fault of anybody but yourself.

We are having a meet up in the Arctic. If that doesn't suit you, don't go...

[udamiano]

I,m not their keeper. It is not for me or anyone else to tell anyone what to do. Im sure the local authorities however will not be amused if they have to bail someone out, purely because of lack of thought or planning on their part. I'm quite happy to advise anyone who asks on the kit that i'll be taking, But if someone doesn't do any of their own research, or turns up thinking that someone else will provide, then I can honestly say, they are going to get a very rude awakening. Like turning up to a meet in the rain, in just a T-shirt and jeans, and wondering why your going to get wet.

If however someone does get into trouble, then Ill provide what help or assistance I can, As i would for anyone, but it is not my function while I'm there. This like many is a holiday for me, and a much needed one as that.

[southey]

What happens if someone turns up and you don't think they or their kit is good enough?

Jokkmokk average temps (coldest winter) is around -19c / -3f will it be much colder where you camp? http://www.climatetemp.info/sweden/jokkmokk.html

Just to say Rik, the average is very different to the extremes

from the Jokkmokk market site,

"
Thank you for visiting us - now let's all look forward to the 2013 Winter Market!
The 2012 Winter Market will go down in history as one of the colder ones, with temperatures ranging between -30 to -40 degrees below freezing. Many thanks to all you cold resistant visitors, market salespeople and all the locals who together made up the 407th market. See you all 7th to 9th of February next year - Welcome!"

[rik_uk3]

Just to say Rik, the average is very different to the extremes

from the Jokkmokk market site,

"
Thank you for visiting us - now let's all look forward to the 2013 Winter Market!
The 2012 Winter Market will go down in history as one of the colder ones, with temperatures ranging between -30 to -40 degrees below freezing. Many thanks to all you cold resistant visitors, market salespeople and all the locals who together made up the 407th market. See you all 7th to 9th of February next year - Welcome!"

I know, that its an average I quoted and not a high/low max Proper winter weather, best pack some extra socks. You'll need good shelter too, I've a Golite Hex 3/bug nest that if I don't sell I'll lend out for the trip. Also I'll happily lend out some good stoves and real Trangia's, give me a shout nearer the time.

[udamiano]

thanks for the offer of kit Rik, dam descent of you

[southey]

I know, that its an average I quoted and not a high/low max Proper winter weather, best pack some extra socks. You'll need good shelter too, I've a Golite Hex 3/bug nest that if I don't sell I'll lend out for the trip. Also I'll happily lend out some good stoves and real Trangia's, give me a shout nearer the time.

Sorry Rik, I didnt mean to direct it at your statement directly, just to say that if some ones reading this and thinks, "hmmmm minus 19, we had that here not so long ago, wasn't so bad" that the difference from 0 to minus 20 in dry cold doesn't feel so bad, but minus 25ish onwards and you REALLY need to have every aspect of your gear and routine in VERY good order, talking about sleeping out( and there aren't many that would without a heated shelter of some kind) if your in and out of a hotel\motel then you will still need your clothing to be of a very good standard(locals do as they will)

[forestwalker]

What happens if someone turns up and you don't think they or their kit is good enough? Jokkmokk average temps (coldest winter) is around -19c / -3f will it be much colder where you camp? http://www.climatetemp.info/sweden/jokkmokk.html

This is both true and false, of couse. I would plan for temperatures anywhere between -10 C to -35 C. Probably around the -20 C mark, but no none guarantees it, and it may go even lower. I can post my preliminty packing list for such a trip. On the other hand there was a thread a few years ago that gave a good list of clothes for the subarctic.