A perfect bushcraft gun??

[British Red]

There have been a few threads here on collapsible rods, hobo reels etc. for fishing Clearly our laws prohibit wandering up to a random river with a handline and plucking out some brown trout, but the idea fits in well with the romantic bushcraft ideal.

Now, as a shooter, I have often toyed with the question of what is the perfect Bushcraft gun - one of the .22 collapsible rifles? Small and light which is a key consideration - very compact and light ammo which is a big plus -less good on moving small game though and normally pretty poor in the accuracy stakes. What about a full size shotgun? Well, a great game getter without doubt - but big and bulky and the ammo is both bulky and heavy. Combination gun? Very flexible but the same bulk problems generally apply to the gun (although a .410 / .22 combination will cover most small game needs and the ammo is light)

Anyway today I invested in what might well be a perfect gun for Bushcraft - very light, very packable, small light ammo.


Its a single barrel Belgian .410. I like it as its silly light and designed to slide into a coat pocket.....


Belgian Folding .410 by British Red, on Flickr


Belgian Folding .410 by British Red, on Flickr

Couple of pounds in weight - would easily fit in a pack. I think it would be ideal

Its not likely I'll ever get shooting and Bushcraft permission on a spot suitable to find out...but its a nice idea

Till then it'll make a good vermin gun



Red

[Siberianfury]

always wanted one of those Red, they have alot of character and charm about them. how does it shoot?

until i get my Certificate my ideal bushcraft gun will be this



its a BSA ultra in .22, nice and compact and very accurate.

[British Red]

Only had a quick try out with it but its a sweet wee gun - very pointable and negligble recoil for a light gun. Lacks a fast second shot but thats the sacrifice on light weight. It'll never replace my rifles or side by side, but it'll do a number on rats, rabbits and branch sitting pigeons okay - and not scare the horses in the next field too much either (although we have a moderated mossberg when the real skittish horses are in there)

[scottallan]

i suggest you buy a weihrauch silencer, they completley hide the noise of the gun, i have shot a rabbit behind another and it never knew. i then killed the front one

[Corso]

I've always wanted an m6 survival rifle or an AR7

[santaman2000]

What's it like not having a fore stock? Doesn't the barrel heat up?

[British Red]

What's it like not having a fore stock? Doesn't the barrel heat up?

Not on a shot or two - its a "one for the pot" gun rather than a heavy use one. We have a supressed mossberg 500 in .410 for that

[JonathanD]

Beautiful piece Red. I love tools with character and that just oozes it.

[southey]

Fantastic looking gun Red! Is there a shell storage chamber in the stock?

[British Red]

No Southey afraid not.

I'll probably copy a mate of mine who puts a few spare cartridges in an old silver cigarette case - they cost nowt now and its a classy touch

[southey]

Oh now that I like! just don't light the wrong cheroot!

[santaman2000]

Thanks Red. And it's a great looking gun.

[Lynx]

That's a lovely looking gun you have there Red. Funny, as soon as I saw the thread title I thought of a folding 410. My first shotgun was a 410 and I loved it. Soon progressed to a double barrell 12 bore though; don't have to get quite so close with of those!

[demographic]

My first thought on reading the title was the .410/.22 combination guns.
How does .410 ammo compare price wise with 12 and 20 bore?

Way back when it seems the .410s were all over the place and I hardly hear of them now.

[khimbar]

I've always wanted an m6 survival rifle or an AR7

Ditto me and the AR7.

This is a bonny wee thing too though. Very nice.

[WoodMan]

The biggest failing with the .410/.22lr combos is the sights are usually too primitive for accurate shooting of the rifle barrel but if you find a way to mount a scope then it is in the way when shooting the shotgun barrel.

If I had to feed myself longterm with a firearm in the northern hemisphere I would go for a .22lr or .22wmr, fine for small game, cheap to feed with lightweight ammunition. Not ideal (and illegal) for larger game but would work if pushed.

If the same firearm would have to double up for bear protection then I suppose you would have to go for a slide action 12g and use different cartridges depending on the application.

For general bushcraft use in the UK for the lucky few who have shooting and camping rights on the same ground then Red's .410 is ideal.

Glyn.

[santaman2000]

The biggest failing with the .410/.22lr combos is the sights are usually too primitive for accurate shooting of the rifle barrel but if you find a way to mount a scope then it is in the way when shooting the shotgun barrel...

Try mounting a Red Dot type quick site. It's common on duck hunter's shotguns and was the issue sight on our AR15s on perimeter tower duty at the prison. I had no problem qualifying with it on the rifle and the duck hunters love it on the shotguns (many of them do anyway)

[British Red]

.410 ammo is (annoyingly) about the same price as 12 bore for normal No. 6 type fodder. That said my local gunshops reckon they sell 100 boxes of 12 bore for each box of .410 so I guess there is a storage premium.

AR7s and derivatives are a great concept but I've never been happy with the accuracy or reliability once assembled. I hear the new owners have improved things so I may have to look again if I get the chance.

I do also like the idea of a combination gun (although I would favour .20 bore / .223) but they are more, to my mind, rough shooting guns than Bushcraft due to the weight

Fun to dream though

Red

[IanM]

I picked an identical one of those for free on its way to be scrapped as it had no foresight and had 'lost' its half cock and was 'dangerous' (they don't have a 'half cock'). It is a ROBOT which is a rare make coveted by collectors. They need a wisp of leather or whipping around the barrel to stop the butt marring the finish whilst it is folded and the folding lock needs care when using as is is prone to wear, don't let the barrel fall onto the lock, lower it gently. Plenty of Belgen and Spanish examples around singles and doubles, £20-£50 for a single and £40-£100 for a side by side.

Is yours also a ROBOT Red? As you have solids on your section one have you tried them in the 0.410"? see:

http://www.buckandslug.co.uk/

[British Red]

No makers name on my Ian - it unusually has a serial number though. My buddy has one nearly identical down to the skeleton stock and his is un-numbered. No idea on the make - it was listed as "Belgian".

The same buddy picked up a "to be scrapped" double .410 folding hammer gun a couple of months back. It wanted a couple of new springs (which he made in an hour). Super wee gun. I haven't tried .410 slug in it - but its a cylinder bore so it should be okay.....

[sandbender]

"...410 ammo is (annoyingly) about the same price as 12 bore for normal No. 6 type fodder. That said my local gunshops reckon they sell 100 boxes of 12 bore for each box of .410 so I guess there is a storage premium..."

Is it still possible to load your own in the UK? I suppose that would help to keep the costs down.

Lovely gun.

[British Red]

Yep....and I do when I have the time. Its certainly worth it for pistol and centre fire rifle calibres - more marginal for bordshot in shotguns but useful for solids or even buck.

Red

[demographic]

.410 ammo is (annoyingly) about the same price as 12 bore for normal No. 6 type fodder. That said my local gunshops reckon they sell 100 boxes of 12 bore for each box of .410 so I guess there is a storage premium.

Thanks, I was under the impression that it was as much if not more expensive than 12 bore but couldn't find any prices on the internet to be sure.

[FGYT]

I picked an identical one of those for free on its way to be scrapped as it had no foresight and had 'lost' its half cock and was 'dangerous' (they don't have a 'half cock'). It is a ROBOT which is a rare make coveted by collectors. They need a wisp of leather or whipping around the barrel to stop the butt marring the finish whilst it is folded and the folding lock needs care when using as is is prone to wear, don't let the barrel fall onto the lock, lower it gently. Plenty of Belgen and Spanish examples around singles and doubles, £20-£50 for a single and £40-£100 for a side by side.

Is yours also a ROBOT Red? As you have solids on your section one have you tried them in the 0.410"? see:

http://www.buckandslug.co.uk/

yes 3" brass cartridges with solid heads we where trying to see if it would be accepted on a FAC for practical shotgun then order a SAGA shotgun in 0.410" a semi with 10 rnd box mags
or if the PLOD would work out it was now really a .41" SLR with a smooth bore :O


Nice gun hugh haven't seen one for a long time used to know an old boy with one and also a side be side folder to
you will be getting a 9mm garden gun next

ATB

Duncan

[johnnytheboy]

Red how is the moderated gun? we have a flight pond on our shoot but its close to houses, i was thinking on buying a moderated 20bore for the ducks!!

[santaman2000]

Yep....and I do when I have the time. Its certainly worth it for pistol and centre fire rifle calibres....
Red

I thought pistols were prohibited now? Am I wrong?

[spandit]

It's a pity the Brocock Fox was outlawed - I'd be surprised if they'd have stood up to proper ammunition (and wouldn't it be pretty easy to convert a .22 air rifle to fire rimfire cartridges?)

[FGYT]

I thought pistols were prohibited now? Am I wrong?

Yes but we can shoot pistol calibres in say lever action .38 , .44 mag

Also we can have long barreled revolvers

ATB
Duncan
from tapatalk phone

[British Red]

Not entirely banned - but effectively so other than long barreled revolvers and old black powder single actions. I shoot a lot of .357 mag from my Marlin though.

JTB - a little cumbersome and nose heavy, but very quiet (think loud hand clap). Not tried a 20B - it will be heavy - not the thing for a high fast pheasant or wildfowling, but if the ducks are predictable on their flight lines it might be just the ticket.

Red

[FGYT]

It's a pity the Brocock Fox was outlawed - I'd be surprised if they'd have stood up to proper ammunition (and wouldn't it be pretty easy to convert a .22 air rifle to fire rimfire cartridges?)

Brocock fox was rubbish

ATB
Duncan
from tapatalk phone