whos the best person to talk to on here

[Corso]

I'm wondering who's the best person to talk to on here is when a trade has gone bad?

[Robbi]

is it me or is this starting to be a regular problem ?

a name and shame sub-section in the full members bit might be a way forward

[resnikov]

Read the faq for sales http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29 and for swaps http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9471 but they do both say Bushcraft UK cannot help you recover goods if the trade does not go smoothly.

[Shewie]

Oh dear not another one

Let's hope it was a purchase with Paypal rather than a swap

[Corso]

Oh dear not another one

Let's hope it was a purchase with Paypal rather than a swap

nope it was a swap

Read the faq for sales http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29 and for swaps http://www.bushcraftuk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9471 but they do both say Bushcraft UK cannot help you recover goods if the trade does not go smoothly.

while I appreciate they are attempting to remove themselves from any legal obligation surely they feel they have a moral one to at the very least ensure it doesn't happen to others.

[resnikov]

Personally I think more of the swaps & sales should be done more in the open. In the post it should maybe be a bit like this:

Seller: For Sale: blah blah blah big shiny knife

Buyer: I will take that, send payment details via PM

Seller: Details sent

Buyer: Payment Sent

Seller: Payment Received and item shipped

Buyer: Item received.


Now its not fool proof but it shows to an extent where the transaction failed.

[Shewie]

while I appreciate they are attempting to remove themselves from any legal obligation surely they feel they have a moral one to at the very least ensure it doesn't happen to others.

I don't see how they can, one option might be to only allow FMs to offer swaps like we do with sales currently.

Trying to police sales and swaps would be an admin nightmare, it's probably easier for the swaps forum to be removed all together.

[Corso]

I don't see how they can, one option might be to only allow FMs to offer swaps like we do with sales currently.

Trying to police sales and swaps would be an admin nightmare, it's probably easier for the swaps forum to be removed all together.

I dont see why - seems to work pretty well on other forums I visit

I simply asked for a belt 2" wide that would fit with holes 32-36" for a bunch of bits I had up for trade - I got a belt 1.5" wide that, well I'll post up a pic but lets just say it's not long enough...

the senders response was not cool to say the least.

Thought better of bushcrafters - obviously I was wrong....

[sapper1]

You can't blame the forum owner or bushcrafters for a trade that went wrong.
It's up to you to satisfy yourself as to the viability of the trade.

I do take offence that because of one person you have classed all bushcrafters the same.

[Corso]

You can't blame the forum owner or bushcrafters for a trade that went wrong.
It's up to you to satisfy yourself as to the viability of the trade.

I do take offence that because of one person you have classed all bushcrafters the same.

meant to say

'Thought better of a bushcrafter - obviously I was wrong....'

I'm not blaming anyone, venting a little and maybe asking what forum recourse there might be so such things dont happen to others but I appreciate the blame is on me for trusting someones word.

[dwardo]

I don't see how they can, one option might be to only allow FMs to offer swaps like we do with sales currently.

Trying to police sales and swaps would be an admin nightmare, it's probably easier for the swaps forum to be removed all together.

I like the swaps and would be sad to see them go due to a few individual problems. Pretty sure i have done about 3 or 4 swaps in the past week or so and all have gone swimmingly. Even the 6ft long paddle that tengu managed to some how get to me! I dont see whaat can go wrong, first agree the swap, next swap the items in a reasonable amount of time, if it all goes to the wall send the items back,, simple.

[Toddy]

This is always a contentious issue and the recent *name and shame* on the forum has it under discussion in the Mods.

The official BcUK position is as laid out above.
Caveat Emptor or Swapper.

It's not that we aren't concerned or sympathetic to the plight of those for whom it goes wrong, it's simply that unless we police matters (and there's a logistical nightmare in the making) the forum only provides a way for people to introduce themselves to others.

We used to have a rep system but it was deliberately undermined and effectively trashed by a few egotistical idiots.

Personally I like the system on British Blades but implementing it here needs an Admin effort and they're a bit snowed under at times.

I also like the sheer simplicity of resnikov's suggestion.
Make it all neat and straightforward. If you intend to swap with someone check their names in a search first.

I would also agree that the Paypal as a gift has to stop. It would be easy to say unless you know the person very well, but that's the start of the road that led to folks being unable to claim against paypals insurances.

I don't like seeing threads where someone is being hounded, denigrated, or otherwise 'shamed into action'. It's not only unedifying, tbh experience shows that it rarely has a positive result and the person at the end of the diatribe just disappears and there is no happy outcome.

I think this discussion might be better in a seperate thread.
If it's tidied up and split into two, well the reasons should be apparant. Anyone with positive input would be welcome to add their 2p worth.

cheers,
Toddy

[Graham_S]

It's something we (the Mods) have been discussing recently.
To be honest, there isn't a lot we can do.
The only real sanction we have is banning, and that just cuts off communication with the parties involved.
In all seriousness if anyone has any good suggestions, we'd love to hear them.
Name and shame doesn't really work that well, as one of the recent trades that went bad, one of the parties had a long list of successful trades (for example)
At the end of the day, on the forum, it's a case of buyer beware.
If anyone does have a problem, report the thread and we'll look at it, but as I said, what we can do is extremely limited.

Ninja'd by Toddy

[Biker]

Surely if the bloke said the belt was 2 inches wide and of a certain length and it didn't meet any of those specifications then he's morally obligated to refund your trade item? Seems only fair play. It's the gentlemanly thing to do.

Anyway hope it gets resolved somehow to mutual satisfaction. Sorry for the frustration, that's got to be a right pi$$er!

[Chris the Cat]

I think that what has happened is terrible Corso !
I realy hope this gets sorted pal, it does reflect badly and needs looking at IMO.
But what to do ! ??
Chris.

[Shewie]

I dont see why - seems to work pretty well on other forums I visit

I simply asked for a belt 2" wide that would fit with holes 32-36" for a bunch of bits I had up for trade - I got a belt 1.5" wide that, well I'll post up a pic but lets just say it's not long enough...

the senders response was not cool to say the least.

Thought better of bushcrafters - obviously I was wrong....

Not good, hope you get it sorted

[g4ghb]

I think in the grand scheme of things trades have pretty much been a success - over three and a half thousand post on the gift-it-on thread and hundreds of successful gifts is proof of the fact. I do appreciate it only takes one bad apple to make the barrel go bad but as long as we try to act fair the system in place works well.

It possibly needs a few tweaks - the no paypal gifts is an obvious and easy change but it would be shame to loose something that brings us all together in an atmosphere of family rather than a load of strangers on the net.

It is easy to slate or back a system but I for one would be honoured if I could help in any way.... talk through change suggestions, help moderate / admin etc This is much more than just another site on the tinternet and I am prepared to do my bit to help keep it that way!

[g4ghb]

Also to that end (and I realise it doesn't fix the initial bad trade) but if you let me know the length you want I'll make you a belt that will fit

[Robbi]

and that is what this place is all about ! BRAVO g4ghb !!!!!

[Chris the Cat]

Thats what this place does so well !
We are all responsible for BcUK.
Well done Mr g4ghb.
Chris.

[Chris the Cat]

Happy to chip in a % so that you don't end up too much out of pocket if that is helpfull ?
C da C.

[beachlover]

I've had a couple of deals on here that while not worth shouting about, weren't as described. On the other hand, I have had numerous trades and purchases on here that have been as described and often even better.
The iTrader system on BB works well and seems to take little mod time, but a decision needs to be taken as to whether the occasional bad trade on here merits it I guess.

[rik_uk3]

Really its nothing to do with BCUK, I got stiched up on a stove and one other item, total loss to me about £70. In the past I would send before payment to make sure the buyer was happy but now I would only send via a signed for courier service and after I have received and cleared the payment. Also NEVER send via paypal marked as a 'Gift' because IIRC you have no recourse to get your money back. One thing BCUK could do is ban sales asking for 'Gift' payments. Sellers should include the fees when coming up with a sale price.

It leaves a sour taste but it means I'm now very careful with buyers unless I know them. 99.99% of members here are as good as gold so don't be put off just cover yourself.

[Corso]

That is a very knid offer g4ghb and a pm has been sent

On another note my original post while frustrated in tone was more an enquiery as to the course of action when trades are not going well rather than a witch hunt on the person I traded with.

The chap I traded with has now reconsidered and has offering an olive branch.

[mrcairney]

has offering an olive branch.

Get yer whittling on

[g4ghb]

received and attempted to reply - but you have exceeded your pm quota mate - time for a clear out mate!

[Biker]

The chap I traded with has now reconsidered and has offering an olive branch.

Well that's a result then.

I'll have the belt then, thanks g4ghb

Seriously though, glad to read something positive's come of it.

[Corso]

received and attempted to reply - but you have exceeded your pm quota mate - time for a clear out mate!

sorry mate have now sorted got a few pms in one go

[sapper1]

Possible hijack here.
What is the most you have lost in a trade or sale?
I lost 2 fishing reels,total value £360.I have proof of posting and delivery but the chap swears blind he never got them.This was a trade from over a year ago.
I couldn't claim from RM as they had the correct signature,it was too far to go and have a face to face,and the chap has since disappeared.

[Robbi]

ouch ! that's gotta hurt !!