Some thoughts on selecting clothing for subarctic climate

[Monk]

Interesting headgear..that looks like a version of the wool headover.

[Monk]

Martti,
just a thought...what kind of info do you have on the type of food folks were eating to stay alive-military and loggers, at those temperatures?
A diet high in pemmican?

[Martti Kujansuu]

Martti,
just a thought...what kind of info do you have on the type of food folks were eating to stay alive-military and loggers, at those temperatures?

Dried reindeer or elk meat is always a good choice. A document from year 1520 mentions that group of hunters/fishermen took with them bread, flour, beans, meat and some butter. Logging camps always had a kitchen that prepared them food of similar type. Finnish Defence Forces currently employs a special sissipakkaus which contains (at least) a package of pea soup, meat soup, sugar, chewing gum, cacao, coffee (naturally!), tea, porridge, spam, cheese and noodle. I had a pleasure trying this package during my time in the Army and found it to be enough for a day and a half of almost continuous walking on dirt roads, mostly during rain.

[Martti Kujansuu]

Another view to one type of loggers outfit, this time from year 1932. Blouse and trousers are made out of 100 % Finnsheep wool cloth and are unlined. Buttons are from galalith. Pocket lining and sewing thread are both made out of cotton.

[Wayland]

All very interesting stuff Martti

A surprisingly lean diet for the FDF, I would have expected a higher fat content.

[Chris the Cat]

Would the string vest be cotton Martti?

My best.
Chris

[Martti Kujansuu]

I'm starting to rethink my hat options as I have seen few photographs from the 1930s where people wore a leather aviator cap during winters. I'm not saying this alone will be enough for -30C temperatures, but basically the concept is the same as with fur cap the difference being that instead of one layer I would have two layers; windproof outer shell of leather/dense wool and another warming layer of knitted wool (neck gaiter). When you have two layers it is easier to replace the other without touching the other one and you can also use just the other one if needed. Incidentally the same kind of cap pattern was also used by Finns and other Finno-Ugric people living in Siberia.

Aviator cap is not that popular here in Finland but you can get one made from elk leather after spending around 25€. I also have patterns to make one if I'll just get my hands on some reindeer leather from up north.

A surprisingly lean diet for the FDF, I would have expected a higher fat content.

I found A. Pranttila's thesis (with English summary at the end) on war-time rations in Finland between 1939-45. Troops fighting north of the Arctic Circle received rations containing c. 4300 kcal per day in 1944. Recommended rations would have contained c. 4700 kcal. It is true that modern rations are low on fat and that might have to do with things that the industry can provide (FDF rations are all off-the-shelf products) and what the doctors recommend people to eat (mostly carbonhydrates and low on fat).

Would the string vest be cotton Martti?

Cotton or wool one (e.g. Aclima WoolNet) if one has extra money to burn.

[bayleaf]

That loggers jacket is very similar to the British 40 pattern battledress blouse, in design.

Yes,quite correct.In fact,quite a bit of the kit already described is very similar to 37/40 issue battledress.For those of you interested in such equipment, there is a very good supplier called 'What Price Glory'.Google them and have a look.Their battledress and trousers are an almost perfect copy of the original.I can vouch for that,as I have a set.Tough as old boots.
I have also worn 49 pattern british issue trousers through a british winter (I work outside) and they are the best,most rugged,and wind proof trousers I have worn,in over 20 years of work.
If you were to wear the standard issue battledress with a swedish army smock over the top,and a m43 cap,you would be more than warm enough.I have worn all of this,in winter conditions,and it was almost too warm.Hope this is of use.

[Martti Kujansuu]

I came up a couple of small bits of information that might interest you. I have previously used a Finnish long range patrol manual as a guidance of choosing clothing items. I have now found a second one written by the CO of another unit from Finnish National Archive. These quotes have never been published before in English, so be proud to be a member of Bushcraft UK. To me these items represent the sharpest edge of clothing design when using only wool, cotton and leather.

Clothing. Light in summer, wind and waterproof. Undergarments must be of wool or [cotton] flannel as they absorb sweat very well. Outer layer should be cool and equipped with large pockets. Best suitable for this purpose are dense cotton fabrics such as faux(?)-, windproof cotton etc. Rubber or rubber tipped boots [with leather top] are the best footwear. Men should be equipped with rubber coated raincoats or rain capes together with rubber coated gaiters against the rain. Equipment are carried with a frame backpack, which should be roomy and with outer pockets and lashes to allow equipment to be attached outside. For camping purposes and drying equipment, the patrols are equipped with two by two meters large waterproof tarpaulin.

Clothing must be light and warm during the wintertime. [Inner layer] Undergarments are the same as in summer. Middle layer undergarments and knee-, wrist- and neck gaiters should be made out of wool. Outer layer should be roomy and equipped with large pockets. Trousers should be straight and similar to skiing trousers [i.e. tapers towards the ankles]. The best material suitable for making these items is a dense and flexible military sarka (i.e. vadmal/hodden/melton) fabric. Other winter equipment includes also a fur coat made of sheep or rabbit or a vest from the same material. Ski boots made out of felt and reinforced with leather bits around the seams and the ski binding attachment are used as a footwear. Snow suit with roomy outer pockets should be made out of strong cotton cloth (e.g. moleskin).

There is also an interesting article on choosing right equipment for the Arctic called General principles governing selection of clothing for cold climates, written by Major Paul Siple of U. S. Antarctic Service in 1945. It was written before the widespread use of synthetic materials which makes it also an interesting to read. The author has also included some facts on general clothing design for the Arctics and subarctic climate so it also is suitable reading material for synthetics users. Siple uses two different clothing systems as a basic for Arctic, over- and underdressing. The first one he recommended for people standing still and doing little work while the latter was naturally for skiers etc.

[RonW]

Interesting read, Martti.
The felt boots have my special interest... Do you have any more info on those?
The only felt boots I know from that era roughly are the German military ones....

[rik_uk3]

Interesting that the Fins are using Norwegien type ration packs these days made by dri tech and pack and go meals

http://www.mreinfo.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=3155

http://www.finnrappel.fi/militaryrations.htm

[Martti Kujansuu]

The felt boots have my special interest... Do you have any more info on those?

To my best knowledge, the German felt shoes were based on both Finnish and Russian examples. However the Finnish ones were based on a traditional leather design and were "skiable". I have instructions & patterns how to make a pair. They are made of 5mm felt around the toes and a bit thinner felt was used elsewhere. Here is a rather poor quality photograph how they look like. Notice the leather reinforcements around the seams and in the tip.

[RonW]

That doesn't look like it is easily made yourself....

[Martti Kujansuu]

That doesn't look like it is easily made yourself....

The structure is simpler than it looks, it is consisted only of three pieces and felt can be easily sewn with a sewing machine. These type of boots have been made and used from the 1910s until 1960s by people without previous knowledge of shoemaking.

[Martti Kujansuu]

The theory of using paper as an insulative material is well-known by many but it is interesting to see how successful it really can be. Paper vests were first adapted by Finnish Defence Forces in 1939 and were used up to 1945. They are simple to made: three layers of newspapers are covered by a layer of cotton (detailed instructions are available if needed). They are light and one account even says that they were almost as warm as fur vests made from sheep or rabbit.

I am really interested to try these one day as nowadays it is really easy to buy several types of acid free paper instead of using the worst quality yellowish pulp newspaper.

[RonW]

I knew about the insulative qualities of paper, from when I used to deal with homeless people.
I am just wandering how durable it would be. It wouldn't be hard to make, but if you'd have to do it every day.....

[Martti Kujansuu]

I am just wandering how durable it would be. It wouldn't be hard to make, but if you'd have to do it every day.....

What I have read from the reports, they were durable enough for the use they were meant, i.e. to be used on top of shell layer when standing still for long periods of time.

[Martti Kujansuu]

Just little more about the string vests, this is the homemade design used by the soldiers during the Winter and maybe also during the Continuation War before Norwegian vests were available in large quanties. I have not seen a traditional Norwegian fisherman's string vest, but I would imagine that this is how they would look like. It is knitted out of very fine fisherman's (cotton) twine. As usual I can provide instructions for making one, if necessary.

[Monk]

Marrti,

Thanks for taking the time to uncover and post all this information on proven methods to stay warm in the outdoors.

Yes,
can you please post instructions on how to make these string vests?
I would like to try making a vest for myself.

Thanks,
Monk

[forestwalker]

To my best knowledge, the German felt shoes were based on both Finnish and Russian examples. However the Finnish ones were based on a traditional leather design and were "skiable". I have instructions & patterns how to make a pair. They are made of 5mm felt around the toes and a bit thinner felt was used elsewhere. Here is a rather poor quality photograph how they look like. Notice the leather reinforcements around the seams and in the tip.

Could you be persuaded to share the pattern? I'll be happy to pay postage if it is in paper format.

[Martti Kujansuu]

can you please post instructions on how to make these string vests?

Could you be persuaded to share the pattern?

Send your contacting information with a PM and I will see what I can do.

[Martti Kujansuu]

Finnish Defence Forces started to develop a rain poncho after the experiences gained during the Continuation War. They compared three different designs, a triangular and two rectangular ones, against each other in field tests during year 1953. A thick rectangular poncho was found to be the best model. The development led to the current model which is made out of PVC coated polyester. According to the 1980s blueprints I have, the dimensions for this model are 2460 by 1600 mm.

I have had the privilege to use this model during my conscription time and I can vouch for its waterproofness outside the poncho but not inside as it does not breath that well and you are bound to sweat a little. The good thing is that the cape (has to) folds to around 10 by 8 cm. Each side of the poncho has ten snap fasteners so it doubles as shelter half.

[Suomäki]

current Finnish army raingear http://www.olkainvalmiste.fi/kuvat/sadeasu.jpg

[Martti Kujansuu]

Recently I have tried to compare various cold-weather clothing systems to see what they have in common in order to improve my previously presented traditional system. George Mallory used c. 2.9 clo wool, silk and cotton system during his 1924 Everest expedition, while Finnish m/65 wool field uniform with m/62 cotton trousers and jacket was 3.1 clo and newer m/91 cotton and polyester system 3.0 clo. The heavy-weight fur system used by Amundsen in Antarctica had a calculated value of 4.9 clo for comparison.

According to single booklet with a reference to a larger study, traditional Sámi fur clothing system corresponds to 3.6 clo but I'm unclear what clothing items does it include. According to the Finnish literature, 3.9 clo is needed without wind, temperature being -31.1°C and with methabolic rate of 2 MET or 116 W/m². As you might remember from my earlier post, this corresponds to walking 3.2 km/h. At the same temperature only 1.8 clo is needed with 4 MET or 232 W/m². This is equivalent to walking 4 km/h in snow or skiing faster than average speed.

When looking these numbers it is quite clear to me that around 3.0 clo is good for almost any year or any place in Fennoscandinavia as temperatures of -40°C or lower are encountered only once or very few times a year in any country of that region. Any reasonable priced or fitted system will not protect you from the lower temperatures if you are standing still. If you are traditional purist like me, the hands can be a problem as Finnish tests have shown that for longer periods of time in these temperatures the only solution is fur or fur imitation made out of natural materials.

There are few clothing items that have surprisingly good clo value for their weight and size. For example midweight wool undergarment trousers worn over long underwear but under the trousers can have a value of 0.2 clo and a good wool sweater 0.37 clo (thick wool overcoat only improves total clo by 0.49). Thus investing to these single items you can greatly improve the clo value for your system.

[rg598]

This has been an amazing thread. Thank you everyone for putting it together. I've learned a lot.

It is perhaps a bit off topic, but I have been reading some books on early 20th century cold weather explorers, and put together some lists of their clothing. Here I have the list of clothing for Nansen, Amundsen, Scott and mallory: http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/2011...d-weather.html and here I have info on some comparison tests between the different clothing options: http://woodtrekker.blogspot.com/2011...and-early.html I hope the info is of some use.

[RonW]

I have a question;
what kind of skis would I need in and around the Scandinavian forrests?
I looked for forrest- or huntingski's, These are shorter and wider than regular ski's, but they come in different sizes and I understand that it has something to do with your own height. I'm 1,70mtr, do I need longer or shorter ones?
Or should I look at normal ski's?

[Kotteman]

I have a question;
what kind of skis would I need in and around the Scandinavian forrests?
I looked for forrest- or huntingski's, These are shorter and wider than regular ski's, but they come in different sizes and I understand that it has something to do with your own height. I'm 1,70mtr, do I need longer or shorter ones?
Or should I look at normal ski's?

It has nothing to do with your height but instead your weight, the higher the weight, the bigger surface area is needed to ski comfortably.

Hunting and forest skis are shorter and wider and has a larger surface area then normal ski's because in the forest there is a lot of trees that makes the snow uneasy(don't now how to explain that, it's different from skiing on a field) and makes less room to make a turn on.

I see you have moved to Sweden now Ron W, you made a good choice, the snow this year is much better then the two before , last year it was 40cm snow in the forest but all powder making me 85kg light with 10x220cm ski's ski on the ground...

[Kotteman]

Some more info
A Google translated page about an old man that makes skis and saying that skis should be 3m long thus making my former comment on ski length invalid http://translate.google.se/translate...kidtillverkare
A google translated page about a skogsskider (forrest skis) search I made in a hiking forum
http://translate.google.se/translate...rchid%3D393339

[RonW]

Hej Kotteman,
snow?? what snow?? You could hardly mean the 3-5cm we have here now??

Thanks for the replies. Unfortunately both links in your second post do not work. Can you post the original ones?
This way i can learn about skis and the Swedish language...

[Kotteman]

The first one worked for me but not the second one naturally, did not think that one trough last night... Here is a link to the forum itself it's about turskidåkning (hiking with skis in Eng) http://www.utsidan.se/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=35

No snow!? that must mean that you live in the south part, here in the north the last 3days it's been snowing about 30-40cm. But that also means that it was a bad year for you to come, last year the south part did get the best and most snow...