i can nearly do it...

[jack29g]

on the moot we did some bow drill firelighting. Leon and matt helped me and my family but i can only get smoke and light brown dust stuff. Because i am only 14 and not that strong i was finding it hard to get enough pressure down. When matt showed us he put lots of downward pressure on the hearth but what can i do if i can't put enough down. Is there any alternatives?

[Jeff Wagner]

Jack - This past May I attended a local gathering of primitive skills enthusiasts. In addition to fire by fence post I watched a young lady of perhaps 12 years successfully make fire by means of a two person method. Person "A" controls the spindle/socket/hearth and applies the downward pressure. Person "B" powers the spindle using an Egyptian style wrapped cord but no bow. The ends of the cord are grasped, one in each hand and the spindle is turned by pulling on first one end then the other in a see-saw fashion. The girl had a coal in no time.

[Fenlander]

This is method i use to teach......

Position yourself ready to begin drilling, then get someone to kneel infront of you and hold the other end of the bow (they are only there to support it you control your speed and rate of drilling). Have the same person put their other hand on top of yours on the bearing block to help you apply more pressure It may take a little bit of practice, but should be easier to produce an ember

[Lithril]

If you can get it, try some seasoned Ivy as a hearth with a hazel spindle. I find with this combo you don't actually need as much pressure as with other woods. Also if you're getting tired too quickly, you're probably trying to move the bow too fast, use the whole of the bow and slow right down, you only need to speed up for 10-15 strokes near the end when the smoke is already pouring out.

[eraaij]

It is not really about strength, but I agree with Lithril. Try a setup with different types of wood to make it easier on yourself. I used an Alder set recently when I demonstrated the firebow to a group. Very easy wood to harvest and to use.

Also, to minimize friction, you could try a block made out of antler, reindeer or bone.

Good luck! You will get there.

-Emile

[PC2K]

agrea too, met a 6 year old that can do it...

i have only done it with willow and it always have made me tired, though !

[Beakytzw]

Good work Jack, but take the advice from these members and keep on trying. Use different woods as suggested and don't give up. Your young but learning fast and doing a great job.

Nice one

Phil

[jack29g]

thanks for all the help, i will keep trying. The only problem is that i can't get hold of any new material because i don't live near and woods.

[qweeg500]

To me it almost seems like a lottery. Frequently when I've done this I've found my self carving several hearths and drills and having to mix and match.
The key is perserverance and not to get frustrated or downhearted.
On one occasion I think i'd carved 3 or 4 sets and the original set ended up working. Maybe my technique had changed or it dried out a little - who knows?

Just keep at it. Every failure makes the end result more satisfying.

Matt

[Toddy]

Jack I watched a 'proper bushcraft' bowdrill being used for the first time a couple of months ago and was appalled at the amount of effort involved. I reckon they make life difficult for themselves.

Take a stick about 25 to 30] cms long and about 4 cms diameter; something like hazel, alder, chestnut, willow..... now saw off 6 or 7 cms of it. This will become your bearing block.

The longer piece needs to be sawn around about 4cms from one end but only inwards about 1 cm. Now, using your knife cut down from the end (as though battoning) into that saw cut all around. You are aiming to make a round peg just less than 1.5cm in diameter. When you've done that now gouge out a corresponding hollow from the bearing block with your knife....you'll probably need to sharpen the blade edge when you're done but the block you make will last for ages. (Bu88er this *burning it afterwards*, get the hang of using it first ) carve around the top edge of the bearing block until you've got a smooth domed shape that's comfortable in the palm of your hand.

Now for the actual spindle tip. Aim for a conical, sharpened pencil shape first and then create a straight *lead* about the same thickness as the spike you carved at the other end.

Next the middle bit. Gently shape it out so that the bow string doesn't slide too far up or down, a smooth curved waist is all that's needed not a channel. Sometimes removing the bark all around this bit is all that's needed.

Use wax, fat, (juniper berries are surprisingly waxy, but a candle will do fine) and put a bit into the bearing block. Insert peg, it ought to turn freely and not bind. If it does you'll just heat up your hand not the hearth and you need to smooth it down a bit more.

This set up focuses all of your effort on the small spindle tip, and cuts down on all of the bits that move out of line. Make your hearth as usual and *burn in*.

I was taught that this type of fire bow/spindle is a copy of one found in Tutankhamun's tomb, though that one was bound with copper and had removable spindle tips.

Several of the members of bcuk will testify that at the Crannog firemaking is demonstrated regularly, and easily, by various members of staff and that the general public are not only welcome to have a go but in many cases manage it themselves with relative ease.This is the type of bowdrill set up used there.

Bowsayer and me made a set like this last week in the back garden in the time it took to drink a cup of tea so it's not that much effort. I have made the set using a stick about 3cms diameter and it worked fine, you could probably get away with just using a thin 1cm stick that fits into the peg style bearing block too so long as the socket was well waxed; and it would cut down on the carving time. Think I'm going to go and play....

Images at :-

http://www.seamstimeless.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/

p.s. If you have trouble getting timber, check that your parents will agree to having your address given by pm, and I'm sure that there are people on the list who will happily send you suitable bits.

Cheers,
Toddy

[Stuart]

Jack I watched a 'proper bushcraft' bowdrill being used for the first time a couple of months ago and was appalled at the amount of effort involved. I reckon they make life difficult for themselves.

I'm confused, what you proceed to describe after this paragraph is exaclty what every bowdrill set I have ever seen looked like, what was different about this 'proper bushcraft' set that you saw?

and what is this nonsense they told you about burning the harth afterwards!!!

[Toddy]

I'm confused, what you proceed to describe after this paragraph is exaclty what every bowdrill set I have ever seen looked like, what was different about this 'proper bushcraft' set that you saw?

and what is this nonsense they told you about burning the harth afterwards!!!

The ones I was shown were thick, heavy, no balance, awkward to use. The bearing block was too shallow and allowed the spindle to skid out unless one exerted great downward pressure, and the bows were long and awkward to use. Too many things to balance easily at once when either freezing cold or inexperienced.
I was told by a "bushcrafter, veteran of many schools " that having successfully made fire with the set up I ought to burn it. Apparantly so that I should be able to make it again from scratch!
Firemaking ought to be a feel good activity, not an exercise in frustration.....now if only I could get the hang of flint & steel
Cheers,
Toddy

[match]

I know what Toddy is saying, but I think that there's a question here between what is a traditional set, made from scavenged bits put together on site with no other materials, and a portable set, made at home, with an adequate supply of tools, designed to be an easy to use piece of fire-lighting equipment. Its the same distinction between flint and pyrite and a firesteel. there are obviously different levels of construction involved, but all types should require the same method to use.

For what its worth, bow drilling should NOT be about exerting huge amounts of effort applying downward pressure, it should be a case of positioning the body correctly so that your natural weight (even for very light people) is enough to provide all the downward force needed. I've seen people put their hand on the bearing block and apply pressure with their arm - this is wrong, and the arm muscles should not themselves be applying pressure - the pressure comes from locking the arm against the leg and shoulder and leaning over the spindle.

I've got a site underway with a lot of detail on different fire-starting techniques - it still needs a lot of work though so I'm not showing it to the general public just yet. However, if anyone would like details (particularly those who consider themselves skilled at bow drill, hand drill, etc) I'm more than happy to show it and get constructive criticism - PM me for details...

[Stuart]

The ones I was shown were thick, heavy, no balance, awkward to use. The bearing block was too shallow and allowed the spindle to skid out unless one exerted great downward pressure, and the bows were long and awkward to use. Too many things to balance easily at once when either freezing cold or inexperienced.

thats not a 'bushcraft bowdrill' its just a badly constructed bow drill

[leon-1]

Match, most bushcrafters carry a saw and a knife with them, when they are out, these are the only tools required to make a set at home or in the field.

Traditionally once you have a set that works you keep it and carry it, other sets were made at the same time and seasoned for use at a later date.

I use no different tools and no different method to make a bowdrill set when I am at home as when I am in the field.

Jack, what lithril said is true about the combination of Ivy and Hazel. I am up at the wilderness gathering this weekend and I know a place to get some Ivy from, I'll get some new stuff and stick it in my garage to season.

I have a couple of hearth boards left from some Ivy that has seasoned over the last couple of years, If you want one let me know by PM and I will send it to you.

On the subject of Hearth boards how are you getting on with the Ivy hearth that I sent you lithril??

[rich59]

thanks for all the help, i will keep trying. The only problem is that i can't get hold of any new material because i don't live near and woods.

Hi Jack,

Know what you mean about finding materials. I live in London. If there is a park nearby you can almost always find dead wood lurking in the less used corners. If in doubt try and speak to any park keeper (rare I know). He might even direct you to a huge pile.

I do a lot of experimenting with hand drilling using different woods. Often the best wood for this is live wood that you then store for a couple of months before use. I have to confess I have been known to raid the park for this as well - I always choose quiet moments and take bits that would not be noticed. Very often a few weeks later the groundsmen come and hack down the bush I used anyway.

Another thing you can do is look in skips. My parents-in-law used to run their house open fire from wood found in skips. Commonly used wood in building is pine and this makes an excellent hearth board.

[Toddy]

thats not a 'bushcraft bowdrill' its just a badly constructed bow drill

Well, *I* thought so but I've recently seen three different "bushcraft" sets and they were all alike and they all need vast amounts of effort to use. They did make fire though. It left me feeling frustrated because I literally demonstrated making fire eight or nine times a day and I found these ones a nightmare to use. Then I was told that I really ought to burn it having managed to get a flame I came home and we played around a bit with this type, and Hey Presto! Fire
Horses for courses, I suppose.

I do agree with Match about good position making a huge difference. He successfully got all of the beginners making fire at the Scottish meet.

I was taught that a harder spindle and a softer hearth was the most effective combination but having tried out suggestions on this site I'm very impressed with some of the results.
Incidentally a slice of Fomes fomentarius underneath the hearth gives a good foundation for a coal and will help keep the charcoal glowing long enough to blow the tinder into flame even on a dreich day. Suppose I'd better qualify that because I don't usually try to set huge bundles of grass alight; it helps the wood shavings and broken fibrous (firecrackle) material to catch.

Cheers,
Toddy