Powerfull inflatable Boats and engines???

**Abbe Osram** · 07-08-2005, 19:02

Hi Guys,
I am planning to buy an inflatable boat, which should be quite powerful to carry about 6 people and a powerful engine. What I have in mind are similar boats the army or marine rescue operations are using. Does anyone here know about names of companies producing these types of boats? I don’t want to buy a happy camper boat, my boat will need to be used for heavy stuff and need to hold up here in the bush.

I would really appreciate any information’s you guys have about good and powerful engines, boats etc. as I don’t no a thing about them yet.

Thanks
Abbe

**shona** · 07-08-2005, 19:14

We have a 6 person Avon Redcrest inflatable which takes 6 hp engine (ours is Evinrude) - it's an ideal small boat to start with. We take ours everywhere - it folds up to fit in a car boot and is quickly inflated, we have rigid floorboards which when fitted greatly increase the speed and manoueverability. We've had ours for 12 years and have used it in all sorts of water and weather without incident.
Maybe you need a rigid inflatable which can take a bigger engine - Avon are great for these also, check their website, but you'll need a trailer.

**mojofilter** · 07-08-2005, 19:59

Another vote for the Avon RIB's! I had a 4m Searider with a 40hp for a while, its in my avatar actually. For carrying 6 people in comfort at any speed I would look at a minimum of 5m with about 70hp. Be aware however, that this sort of combo doesnt come cheap. There are cheaper options, but Avon are pretty much the "industry standard"

mojo

**Abbe Osram** · 07-08-2005, 20:03

Thank you guys, I have a startpoint to check deeper.
cheers
Abbe

**arctic hobo** · 07-08-2005, 20:07

If you need a real workhorse for inland and coastal use, you want a Dory. Trouble is of course they aren't inflatable, but are no worse than a RIB for portability. Weight varies hugely with hull material, there are some that are very light indeed. You may want to look up ex mil boats, although the ones I've used were in pretty poor nick and also heavy. Advantage was power, reliability and price. Many Dories claim to be used by the military - so many I wouldn't believe half of it, but they are used for inland and shore work by the military because that is the best hull shape.
A planing hull is fine if you are going a bit farther, and will cope excellently with waves, but are more of a fiddle to land. PM me if you want more info, I've been teaching from the sort of craft you mean for 5 years so I've a fair bit of experience

**mojofilter** · 07-08-2005, 20:27

Dories are good wee boats and are less delicate than RIB's, if you can find an Orkney Dory like the 414 with a 50hp it would be a good buy. Dories however are not even in the same league as RIB's when the going gets choppy!

**george** · 08-08-2005, 14:17

If you want a real workhorse though, and you're not going out in particularly nasty weather then an ex military rigid raider would do the job nicely.

That with a 50 or 60 hp motor would certainly cope with quite a bit and carry everything 6 people could want. Being double skinned and with a very strong hull it can be beached easily and can take an awful amount of abuse without complaint.

Mojo's dead right though, when it comes to big waves and heavy seas I'd want to be in a capable rib.

Just sold a 7.5m Osprey with a 250hp inboard recently. I loved that boat!

George

**Abbe Osram** · 08-08-2005, 14:36

Originally Posted by george

If you want a real workhorse though, and you're not going out in particularly nasty weather then an ex military rigid raider would do the job nicely.

That with a 50 or 60 hp motor would certainly cope with quite a bit and carry everything 6 people could want. Being double skinned and with a very strong hull it can be beached easily and can take an awful amount of abuse without complaint.

Mojo's dead right though, when it comes to big waves and heavy seas I'd want to be in a capable rib.

Just sold a 7.5m Osprey with a 250hp inboard recently. I loved that boat!

George

Hi Guys,
thanks for all the help I am not going into the ocean but plan to ride this lake back and forth to establish my base camp. I will have to transport food and material back and forth and later Bushcrafter who like to take a course in my place. I attach a picture of the lake for you. It sounds like the boat to have for me.
What are the prices I have to count with? Thanks a lot for all the info.

cheers
Abbe

**NickBristol** · 08-08-2005, 14:45

Rigid raiders are made by VT Halmatic - great fun to drive, will carry a pretty big load, very versatile and fantastic craft for most conditions but they do have some quite severe limitations in heavy seas. Saying that, if it gets too rough just aim for the beach, dont slow down and an RRC will get you ashore safely, if a little bumpy. Fit some foam padding tho if you're not going to be abusing it - the extra comfort will really be appreciated by any passengers...

I'd go for twin 150hp on the back if you like a bit of wind through your hair.

Anyone know where they can be bought second hand? I'd love my own one again...

**arctic hobo** · 08-08-2005, 15:49

Yup, looks like a Dory is the thing for you. Rigid raiders are the most well known Dories available, but many boats use that type of hull, including fishing craft. On a lake it is perfect because of the shallow draught, and as people said, it takes a load of abuse and can be driven straight up the beach.

Originally Posted by NickBristol

I'd go for twin 150hp on the back if you like a bit of wind through your hair.

Er, well, yes, but they cost a fortune. And for lake use it's just a teensy bit of overkill

I can't imagine you'd stay at full speed for long even if you reached it - not to mention the weight of them!! Twin 150s are not for carrying, whether two or four stroke, let alone how they affect the boat's handling (nose up flips spring to mind).
Abbe I'd recommend a 50hp outboard. Four stroke if you can afford it is better, because it's quieter, cleaner, more efficient and goes wrong less, although they are heavier and more expensive, and trickier to repair if they do break down. You could get 75hp or 100hp if you can afford it. Depends what you're using it for - for general purpose use 30 is enough, although I wouldn't use it as a rescue boat for canoeing/sailing as it wouldn't be quick or agile enough.
There was a man I met in the US who had twin electric 20s on a small Dory, which he charged with solar power. He said they were really reliable, surprisingly quick, silent, and cost nothing to run. Of course you pay a lot for them in the short term, and in winter I imagine it might be a problem charging it (although you could use the mains), but certainly something to look into. Only trouble with twins is it means hydraulic steering gear and a wheel, rather than hand control. The boat you buy may already have this though.
Best of luck in your search

**Abbe Osram** · 08-08-2005, 16:05

Originally Posted by arctic hobo

Yup, looks like a Dory is the thing for you. Rigid raiders are the most well known Dories available, but many boats use that type of hull, including fishing craft. On a lake it is perfect because of the shallow draught, and as people said, it takes a load of abuse and can be driven straight up the beach.

Er, well, yes, but they cost a fortune. And for lake use it's just a teensy bit of overkill

I can't imagine you'd stay at full speed for long even if you reached it - not to mention the weight of them!! Twin 150s are not for carrying, whether two or four stroke, let alone how they affect the boat's handling (nose up flips spring to mind).
Abbe I'd recommend a 50hp outboard. Four stroke if you can afford it is better, because it's quieter, cleaner, more efficient and goes wrong less, although they are heavier and more expensive, and trickier to repair if they do break down. You could get 75hp or 100hp if you can afford it. Depends what you're using it for - for general purpose use 30 is enough, although I wouldn't use it as a rescue boat for canoeing/sailing as it wouldn't be quick or agile enough.
There was a man I met in the US who had twin electric 20s on a small Dory, which he charged with solar power. He said they were really reliable, surprisingly quick, silent, and cost nothing to run. Of course you pay a lot for them in the short term, and in winter I imagine it might be a problem charging it (although you could use the mains), but certainly something to look into. Only trouble with twins is it means hydraulic steering gear and a wheel, rather than hand control. The boat you buy may already have this though.
Best of luck in your search

Hi mate,
thanks a lot for your info, I really dont want a overkill for prestige sake. But I will have to travel a fair amount of tours (16km) average a day with that boat transporting gear, building material, people etc. That would be only for summer times as in winter I will have to travel the same lake and distances and more by snowmobile. The simple thought I had was: If I have to travel so much on water I dont want a canoe or something slow because it will drive me nuts in a long run. It should hold and be strong for abuse, I dont want to tell people all the seconds to watch out not to hurt my boat.

So something I can forget and work with like a good old work horse. Yes, now we come to the money bit. Off course when you life like I do you dont have so much money to waist and I would look for something I can pay. If 30 h is fast enough for my daily travel I rather have 30 than 150 h but if I transport 6 people and the whole travel takes ages I better buy more horse power from the beginning. I heard that one counts 1 horse power for one person, is that right? Sounds quite low to me. As I dont understand a -s-h-i-t- about speed and boats 150 h sounds like a high speed racer doenst it? Someone was telling me too that one can count 100 euro per horse power that would be a hell of a lot money for that type of engine?

thanks guys for all the info I can get please keep them coming, even other type of solutions I maybe havent thought of are welcome

thanks
Abbe

**Abbe Osram** · 08-08-2005, 16:14

Originally Posted by NickBristol

Rigid raiders are made by VT Halmatic - great fun to drive, will carry a pretty big load, very versatile and fantastic craft for most conditions but they do have some quite severe limitations in heavy seas. Saying that, if it gets too rough just aim for the beach, dont slow down and an RRC will get you ashore safely, if a little bumpy. Fit some foam padding tho if you're not going to be abusing it - the extra comfort will really be appreciated by any passengers...

I'd go for twin 150hp on the back if you like a bit of wind through your hair.

Anyone know where they can be bought second hand? I'd love my own one again...

hi mate,
thanks for the link looks like and interesting boat to me too the:
RTK Riverine Assault Boat
do you know in what kind of price class they are? All the webpages have no pricing and than I will have to bring the little thing as well to sweden.

cheers
Abbe

**NickBristol** · 08-08-2005, 16:33

OK so twin 150's might be a little bit over the top for a lake (i didn't see the pic before i replied!) but that's what was on the back of the RRC is used to drive and it suited me just fine. It did help to have two or three big lads at the front however

Best solution would be a simple dory with a single 50 to 100HP outboard with hand controls, no hydraulics and a nice big fuel tank. Although a dory is pretty much unsinkable, always do a very thorough check on the hull looking for any repairs, cracks in the GRP, splits, anything that is evidence of it being abused. Ttry to convince the seller to give you a demo of it's bouyancy, expecially how it deals with being swamped. If they wont do this, it's pretty likely they know it's got a leak and dont want to see it go to the bottom. If the seller is genuine they shouldn't mind, especially if you offer to bail it out afterwards.

Check the outboard has all its serial numbers still attached and dont be scared to check them with the local police to see if they show up as stolen. Amazing how many outboards are nicked, and you dont want to be caught with one.

Abbe - wish I could help with the prices but I've had no luck finding them either. Try the usual google search for suppliers in Sweden.

Does anyone know how much a RRC goes for new or nearly new? Maybe even a surplus one?

**arctic hobo** · 08-08-2005, 16:41

Originally Posted by Abbe Osram

Hi mate,
thanks a lot for your info, I really dont want a overkill for prestige sake. But I will have to travel a fair amount of tours (16km) average a day with that boat transporting gear, building material, people etc. That would be only for summer times as in winter I will have to travel the same lake and distances and more by snowmobile. The simple thought I had was: If I have to travel so much on water I dont want a canoe or something slow because it will drive me nuts in a long run. It should hold and be strong for abuse, I dont want to tell people all the seconds to watch out not to hurt my boat.

So something I can forget and work with like a good old work horse. Yes, now we come to the money bit. Off course when you life like I do you dont have so much money to waist and I would look for something I can pay. If 30 h is fast enough for my daily travel I rather have 30 than 150 h but if I transport 6 people and the whole travel takes ages I better buy more horse power from the beginning. I heard that one counts 1 horse power for one person, is that right? Sounds quite low to me. As I dont understand a -s-h-i-t- about speed and boats 150 h sounds like a high speed racer doenst it? Someone was telling me too that one can count 100 euro per horse power that would be a hell of a lot money for that type of engine?

thanks guys for all the info I can get please keep them coming, even other type of solutions I maybe havent thought of are welcome

thanks
Abbe

Using only 30hp for transporting 6 people would be slow, but it depends on the boat. Of course a larger boat would be heavier and thus need more power to match the speed of a smaller one. I think 50 or 75hp would be ample for your needs

Twin 150s would cost a fortune as you say - you might be looking at 5000 pounds (about 70,000SEK) for just one, secondhand!
Plus they are very noisy and very heavy on fuel because like all engines are most efficient running in midrange - so unless you need an awful lot of speed it's really not necessary, and on a small boat, very dangerous.
When you're buying a Dory, do check all over the bottom of the hull. Because they get a lot of abuse running up the shore, they can have very great wear there. Sometimes that's why people sell them - I've seen some actually worn through on the bow.
If you're transporting large objects, you will not want steering gear because then you will free up the front of the boat to put large objects in. Boats with an open hull (I suppose like a builder's skip!) have very large capacity for things like that which you would not have with a central wheel and seat.
One last thing - buy a prop cutter! This is a small serrated blade that fits on the propellor and cuts off all the weed that gets caught. Having experienced the temperature of lakes in your part of the world you don't want to be swimming! because you cannot always lift up the engine and cut it off yourself.

**george** · 08-08-2005, 17:02

All good stuff guys - I would add to look out for ex military general purpose boats. I don't know the military acronym for them but they are dory shaped, about 20 feet long and made of aluminium. Possibly 1960s rigid raiders - not the modern ones.

My mate has one that he uses two or three times a year with a fifteen hp motor on the back to transport gear up and down to a bothy he uses. It really takes no maintainance at all, carries a ton of gear and has a double bottom on it so can take some abuse. He bought it for about £500 without the engine. Add a 50 or 60 hp to that and it would do everything that Abbe wants. Up here a decent 60hp will set you back around £1500.

Another possibility is an old ships lifeboat. They're obviously not so fast (though some do 17 to 20 knots!) but they are very cheap, will hold loads of people and gear, very safe and with an inboard diesel engine they're very reliable. Of course they're not great at running up the beach but unless they're very loaded then they have a comparitively shallow draft too. I think that your best bet for finding one of them is to contact ferry companies and perhaps oil companies - I believe they have to get rid of them at regular intervals.

Oh yeah - I would reckon four hp per person plus one per metre lenght and one per metre across would be the minimum for motor size. So six people in a 7 metre boat two metres wide would need 33 hp to make it go comfortably. Any more would just get you there faster.

George

**Abbe Osram** · 08-08-2005, 17:52

Hi to all,
you guys are amazing, I am loaded with info thanks a lot for all the help!

yours
Abbe

**Moonraker** · 09-08-2005, 12:40

If you are looking for a tough, safe and durable boat then may be worth checking out the Finnish manufacturer Terhi. Site in Swedish and English.

They have a great reputation for boats suitable for your use, especially the larger ones which have a wide beam (width) making them very stable and well suited to carrying loads.

To give you some idea of how safe they are check out this photo from their web site when they subjected one of the boats to the ultimate test, sawing it in half with a chainsaw

There are more details of this on their web site here:

http://www.terhi.fi/press/index.php?func=show_grp&id=19

You can pick up a nearly new one secondhand in Sweden for around 19,000 SEK

http://www.annonsborsen.se/search/view/object/6155

My father has just brought a Tehri Seafun for taking the kids seafishing out of Lyme Regis and it really perfomed nicely and was reassuringly stable. I reckon they are also popular for inland waters in SE.

I was wondering what limits there are to outboard engine size on Swedish lakes and speed limit? I could not find the info.

Good luck with the search

**arctic hobo** · 09-08-2005, 12:54

Incredible!! Great pic, cheers for the link also

**mojofilter** · 09-08-2005, 13:16

Originally Posted by george

Oh yeah - I would reckon four hp per person plus one per metre lenght and one per metre across would be the minimum for motor size. So six people in a 7 metre boat two metres wide would need 33 hp to make it go comfortably. Any more would just get you there faster.

George

I dont think a boat of these dimensions would get on the plane with 33hp.

**mojofilter** · 09-08-2005, 13:23

I still think that a RIB would be a better choise of boat for everything you want apart from transporting building materials, but how often will you be doing that?

Dories are not the most comfortable boats in anything beyond a ripple, and once it starts to roughen up a bit, the bow seats become almost uninhabitable, and still the RIB wont feel a thing!

**arctic hobo** · 09-08-2005, 13:43

But RIBs are expensive, and less easy to land. A Dory you can just pull up the beach, but a RIB you want a beach anchor or a full on trailer. Dories are excellent with small chop, which is all you get on lakes unless there is a full gale on.
George didn't suggest the dory would plane with 33hp - who needs it to anyway, if it's just for transport? I appreciate it would use less fuel, but high speeds aren't ideal for load carrying, not to mention the fact that the boat is less stable planing. RIBs also lose more stability than Dories when planing too.

**swamp donkey** · 09-08-2005, 14:38

Boats ho hum lots of money wasted here everyyearbylots of people.

IIMHO what you have to do is set things down on paper so you get yourself a specification as to what you want your boat to do for you and how. If you do this you will be able to select the right craft for your needs and will not beaffected by other peoples favoiurites loves hates. I could recommend a set up for 6 poeple ranging from Approx £4000 to £150,000

Here are some questions which I would ask in no particular order..

1. Do I really need to own a boat or would it be just as profitable to hire one? Will I use it enough to justify the cost (time and money) of purchase and maintainace.

2. Where do I want to use the boat ,Lakes and rivers, the Sea (inshore or away from the coast) Or all three.

3. How will I transport the craft? do I have a vechicle capable of towing a trailer or do I need to transport it in or on top off my vechicle?

4. How will I store the craft . do I have space for a trailer will weather conditions allow it to be stored out side all year around. Is my only storage space a Garage,lock upshed?

5. Do I have the necersary skills (and time) to service and maintain the craft and engine. Or must I pay AN other to do this for me and how much will it cost?

6. How willI I want to launch the craft . Are there slip ways , vechicle acsess or will I need to carry it into location?

7. What to I want to carry in the craft? People, Expedition equipment, Carcasses etc ? one all or some ?

8. Will I be using the craft in a remote location? If so will I be able to fix it easily in the field.

9. How fast do I want to go?

There are more questions but thats some of the more obvoius

Once you have done this you have to sit down honestly and decided how much money you have to spend on the craft engine and all the extras that you need (radio , life jackets safety gear atc etc ) espesially if you are going to take paying customers.
THEN ONLY THEN CAN YOU START LOOKING AT ACTUAL CRAFT

Well thats enough for now but hope it helps a bit

**Abbe Osram** · 09-08-2005, 15:44