Food prices set to rise BBC news

[stuart f]

Hi folks i though this was interesting
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13538304

And could this be the start of desertification http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desertification here in the uk ,as looking at the news story it was interesting too note how the top soil was blowing away when the farmer was handling the dried out soil.

Hmm food for though me thinks.
Cheers Stuart.

[santaman2000]

Seasonal or periodic climate anomalies (drought, flooding, etc.) cause the need for globalization. Rarely do the anomalies affect globally so while the UK experiences drought, Eastern Europe can produce excess wheat or reverse the example in a few years for example. The irony being that globalization is believed to be one of the causes of the anomalies.

[locum76]

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/BUSINESS...eat/index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_food

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=33268

A little bit of drought in middle England is just a blip and globalisation wont help. Learn to grow your own.

[Toddy]

......and meanwhile I've got three overflowing ponds and two inches of water on the lawn
The burn is roaring down beside the back path and the river is full and heavy.
The woodlands are dripping wet, and it's raining, again.

Camelot it ain't

M

[santaman2000]

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/BUSINESS...eat/index.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peak_food

http://ipsnews.net/news.asp?idnews=33268

A little bit of drought in middle England is just a blip and globalisation wont help. Learn to grow your own.

Hopefully it's only a "bit" of drought. But on a worldwide scale sometimes a drought lasts for years or even decades. Especially with climate change. That's what my point was; the unpredictability and inter-relationship between cause and effect.

[Toddy]

Generally the UK is okay for water. The east coast suffers a bit, but the west is sodden with the hills catching the rain filled winds from the Atlantic. It's a maritime climate and it's because we really do live on an islands.
A temperature rise of 2degC would bring Scotland's temperature up to the level that was prevalent during the late Bronze /Iron ages. Lands that are now sub marginal and only used for Summer grazing were productive arable lands then. They might well be again
Swings and roundabouts, the world keeps turning and we just have to make do with what we're given.

When the American plains became a dustbowl, the 'plain folk', the Amish and the like, didn't suffer nearly so badly. They farm small, and they build fences. They use real horsepower, that adds it's own fertiliser and humous to the soil. These were crucial in their survival.
Farming is a very wide ranging set of possibilities

cheers,
Toddy

p.s.
http://www.orionmagazine.org.indes.p...s/article/343/

[sandbender]

This article from the US publication 'Foreign Policy' casts some light on the role the markets have in producing unnecessary rises in food costs. Its a long piece at 2000 odd words, but worth reading.

Article here.

[locum76]

There's no doubt that prospecting pushes food prices up as it does with any other commodity. There is the the small issue of supply and demand though.

[lub0]

Farming went to crap when they started taking the shortcut of chemicals.
Any shortcut will always cause a problem sooner or later.
There is no topsoil anymore, and the soil that is there is pure evil.

The reason I got an allotmont is becuase the veggies sold in the shops are tasteless and full of "cides" (pestiCIDE, fungaCIDE, ad infinitum) that wreck havok on the bodies numerous sub-systems, which all contribute to "mysterious" fatigue, crap mental performance and eventually manifesting in any of the inumberable diseases.

[santaman2000]

Farming went to crap when they started taking the shortcut of chemicals.
Any shortcut will always cause a problem sooner or later.
There is no topsoil anymore, and the soil that is there is pure evil.

The reason I got an allotmont is becuase the veggies sold in the shops are tasteless and full of "cides" (pestiCIDE, fungaCIDE, ad infinitum) that wreck havok on the bodies numerous sub-systems, which all contribute to "mysterious" fatigue, crap mental performance and eventually manifesting in any of the inumberable diseases.

The chemicals you mention are definitely one of the reasons for the loss in taste of modern vegetables. You can add another reason as well; modern vegetables are breeds (varieties) that were developed for abundant yield, durability in transport and cheap production. Notice what was missing? Taste. It's just not a profitable commodity.

That's another benefit of growing your own; you can grow the older heirloom varieties and get much better taste as well as the satisfaction.

[santaman2000]

...When the American plains became a dustbowl, the 'plain folk', the Amish and the like, didn't suffer nearly so badly. They farm small, and they build fences. They use real horsepower, that adds it's own fertiliser and humous to the soil. These were crucial in their survival...

cheers,
Toddy...

When the "Dust Bowl" occurred it wiped out ALL farmers in the Great Plains. The whole thing occurred because the plains weren't suitable to being farmed at all. At least not with the technology of the day. Ploughing centuries old grassland (without irrigation) left the topsoil vulnerable whether done on a large scale or a small scale.

The Amish survived because they were concentrated in Pennsylvania and Ohio (far from the Great Plains and the Dust Bowl)

[torc]

This article from the US publication 'Foreign Policy' casts some light on the role the markets have in producing unnecessary rises in food costs. Its a long piece at 2000 odd words, but worth reading.

Article here.

You beat me to it.
This also makes grim reading, http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article...litics_of_food

Happy trails...torc.

[Toddy]

The dustbowl soil blew across farms right across the country, it even reached Washington. Where the Plain folks farmed, their fences caught the soils. Their farming practices didn't destroy their topsoil structure. They added moisture retaining organic matter to the soil. They didn't use tractors and other heavy machinery which wrecked the soil stability, they used horses, which add their own manure to the entire process.
Incidentally the Amish, Menonite and others are quite happy being pioneer farmers, they had, and have farms right across the USA.
Like the rest they suffered, but their practices were used as models for those who later successfully farmed those acres of 'dustbowl'.

The plains were deep rooted grasslands, and those roots held the soil together when the weather and climate both turned hot and dry.

Temperature change as the climate fluctuates is a natural part of the cycle. Whether humanity chooses to be reactive enough, quickly enough, is another matter.

cheers,
Toddy

[locum76]

I think the major contributing factor to the lack of taste in vegetables is simply that by the time they are in the supermarkets, they are not very fresh.

[Toddy]

I miss the smell of veggies too. It used to be that you could smell mushrooms, potatoes, carrots, onions, neeps, apples, oranges.....now they just smell of supermarket

M

[sandbender]

"...This also makes grim reading, http://www.foreignpolicy.com/article...litics_of_food..."

Thanks for that.

I miss the smell of veggies too. It used to be that you could smell mushrooms, potatoes, carrots, onions, neeps, apples, oranges.....now they just smell of supermarket

I buy my lumpy, misshapen and dirty veg at the local market, usually from short well wrapped grandmothers. The veg here does taste better, on those few occasions I return to the UK the difference is obvious. If you have a little land, grow something! Even if it is only a row of turnips! You may appreciate the practice in times to come.


www.chew.hu

[locum76]

That is exactly what farmers markets should be like in Scotland. You would not believe the amount of high ranking officials I have challenged on this. Thankfully Richard Lochhead and some folk from the SAC are taking note.

I've toyed with the idea of starting one myself but there isn't enough producers..... yet.

[Toddy]

Sandbender, that just looks like good food

I'm hungry now.

Good on you Rob
I try to buy local and I can tell the difference.
My own garden is so shaded with trees that it's hard to grow more than herbs and fruit bushes. The older houses round here have huge gardens though and the older folks in them are happy for the more able bodied to use their vegetable plots

cheers,
M

[Tony]

Shelly's out working hard on the veg plot, she's out there now in the rain with the kids planting more cabbages and Cauliflowers......

[g.harper]

Tell you what; i can’t wait to get a house with a bit of garden to turn over. At the moment i have a little tiny balcony full of fruit and veg. All coming along very nice. Infract we should be able to have a few courgettes in the next couple of weeks.

[santaman2000]

The dustbowl soil blew across farms right across the country, it even reached Washington. Where the Plain folks farmed, their fences caught the soils. Their farming practices didn't destroy their topsoil structure. They added moisture retaining organic matter to the soil. They didn't use tractors and other heavy machinery which wrecked the soil stability, they used horses, which add their own manure to the entire process.
Incidentally the Amish, Menonite and others are quite happy being pioneer farmers, they had, and have farms right across the USA.
Like the rest they suffered, but their practices were used as models for those who later successfully farmed those acres of 'dustbowl'.

The plains were deep rooted grasslands, and those roots held the soil together when the weather and climate both turned hot and dry.

Temperature change as the climate fluctuates is a natural part of the cycle. Whether humanity chooses to be reactive enough, quickly enough, is another matter.

cheers,
Toddy

Yes the topsoil did indeed blow all the way TOO Washington and New York but that was not the "Dust Bowl" The Dust Bowl only refers to where it blew FROM, The Great Plains. The topsoil that blew onto the areas in the East was little more than an inconveniece; it was the areas in the prairies themselves that were seriously affected. Both by the health hazards of the huge choking clouds and the failed farms. Back when it occurred many farmers were still using horses; that wasn't a relevant issue. Ploughing by any means dug up the grasslands and destroyed the root system you mentioned.

As to the Amish adding "organic material" everyone did so at the time. Synthetic fertilizer was not even discovered (accidentally discovered at that) until after WWII. The nitrate based synthetics used today were accidentally discovered when someone noticed that the vegetation was greener beside the railroad tracks where the nitrates (being shipped for wartime explosives manufacture) consistently spilled from the rail cars along the track.

Yes the Amish were and are scattered around the entire country BUT!! By and large that was marginal. They were and are concentrated mostly in Pennsylvania and Ohio. They have have settlements in Colorado and Tennessee as well but never did "spread" as such. They were and remain a clustered people who farm in small farming communities rather than completely independently. If we had a "homesteading" sub forum they would make a fascinating thread on their own.

The Menonites (here at least) are not insistent on using horses. Their farms utilize some of the most modern machinery.

Outside the Great Plains ALL farmers continued with no problems throughout the "Dust Bowl" era. In fact that era coincides with the Great Depression and farming communities (apart fro the Plains farms) actually faired much better than urban areas. My parents lived in just such rural communities at the time. Money was short due to the depression but food was was plentiful. even at the height of the depression in farm areas (large or small farms; horse powered or tractor powered)

[shaman717]

The signs speak to us. The time is perhaps indicating that we could interact to make a difference. Bushcrafters are mainly people who respect nature and as such surely we have a vital role to interact in.

My own travels around varies places indicate that the truly aware and awakened folk are getting on with matters, being part of the solution. The more reliance we have on the media and the way it conditions and placates us, we will live in fear.

Another point, would other Bushcrafter's be interested in the possibility of community living and self sufficiency? If so please do let me know.

[locum76]

I've just been listening to some Woody Guthrie. Pretty Boy Floyd to be precise, it seemed kind of relevent to this.

[British Red]

Interesting thread.....could be lifted from a survival forum

[Toddy]

Santaman the farming on the prairies was adjusted enormously after the dustbowl....sorry if that term is too uncritical for you, but that's what the rest of the world calls it. Now there's a Chinese version too.
The adjustments didn't continue in the vein of the plain folks for long though; biannual cropping, low ploughing, etc.; now the plains farmers rely on the waters drawn from the ice age filled aquifer, and it's not being refilled.
Again, lessons aren't learned.

The Plain Folks (easier than remembering the different names and their assorted religious schisms just to call them by their own reference) mostly still farm within the contraints of an economy that could survive without oil, and can still thrive. Their farming communities weathered the dustbowl better than any other group did. Even if they weren't significant population numbers it was noted at the time, and afterwards, that their methods were doing just enough better to be worth considering.

One has to wonder how well modern farming techniques will 'weather' the next weather change ?

cheers,
Toddy

[locum76]

Interesting thread.....could be lifted from a survival forum

...or a sufficiency forum, it all fades to beige eventually.

I like to see people eating well, whatever it's called and growing your own is one way to beat the price rises for now at least.

If food is one of the basics in Maslow's hierarchy of needs, I wonder where 'good food' falls?

[British Red]

Self actualisation I suspect

[Toddy]

How're they doing down your way BR ?
I know we're sodden wet again, but your soils looked bone dry in those field photos you posted.

I'm old school enough to believe that good food, like fresh water, good education and health care, ought to be available to all.

cheers,
M

p.s. Though I think the Danes are taking the notion too far in banning Marmite because it has additives like folic acid in it

[British Red]

Had some heavy showers today - almost enough to wet the ground. Just need another two weeks like that now...!

Glad it wasn't yesterday - we were a bit busy on the food front


Greenhouse Sides Up by British Red, on Flickr


Greenhoses complete by British Red, on Flickr

A day of final fitting and bolting down and plumbing in the gutter and water butts left and then in go the plants!

Red

[Toddy]

Very tidy and good sizes too

I found a very cheap but sturdily effective way of acquiring greenhouse shelving.....buy the cheap polythene greenhouses for under £20 and you get enough shelving from inside to make two racks Buy three and the inner pieces make enough for five three-shelved racks and mine are strong. Easy kept and washed down, and very easy to reconfigurate if you're growing tall stuff that needs the full height of the glasshouse

cheers,
M.....who's given up trying to dodge the rain to pack the car for the weekend