Cheap fuel

[Badger90]

Most supermarkets are doing cheap veg oil at the mo, sainsbury's have 3l @ just under £3 which works out at 97p a litre. I bought 30 litres at the weekend for apprx £28 ( 10 x 3l bottles ) and chucked em in the Landy at the car park.

For those that run Landy's or other vehicles with the older style diesels, well worth the cost saving

[ged]

Is that legal?

[Robbi]

nice one, i wonder if my Grand Vitara could run on it ?

[Badger90]

No idea, but why would it be illegal?

[mountainm]

Be careful, I'm not sure that's legal - if it's used as fuel (no matter what it is) I think it needs to be taxed as fuel...
http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsP...ument#P10_1033

[Badger90]

There is a legal limit of 2500 litres allowed per annum, quick google search

On a 70 litre fuel tank that's....um.....apprx 35 full tanks


Although i have no idea how on earth the HMRC monitor it.....

[mikeybear]

Can't help but think that you've burnt the evidence though


MB

[Badger90]

4.2.1 Exempt producers/users
If you have produced or used less than 2,500 litres of:

any biofuel, or
any other fuel substitute or additive
within the last 12 months, and/or expect to produce or use less than 2,500 litres in the next 12 months, you are an exempt producer and do not need to register with us and account for duty. However, there are simple record keeping requirements, which are described in paragraph 4.9.1.

Production includes the manufacture or processing of road fuel, and the setting aside of any product that has not been charged with duty, with the intention of using it as road fuel.

http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsP...ment#P105_8670


That's that wrapped up

[santaman2000]

No idea, but why would it be illegal?

I cain't speak for the UK specificly but generally fuel taxes are used to build and maintain roadways. If you use an untaxed fuel (legally or otherwise) on a public street you would be getting the benefits without paying your share.

[santaman2000]

I've been crunching the numbers (converting currency and volumes) and 97p per liter comes up about 20% more expensive than real diesel over here. How much is diesel there?

[southey]

around 1,50 a liter!!

[southey]

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, ,,,,,,,,Unleaded,,,,,,Diesel,, ,,, LRP ,,,Superunleaded,,,,LPG
The Highest price in this area: 139.90p,,, 145.90p,,, n/a,, 148.90p,,, 78.90p
The Average price in this area: 137.16p,,, 142.63p,,, n/a,, 144.06p,,, 78.90p
The Lowest price in this area: 134.50p,,, 138.90p,,, n/a,, 137.90p,,, 78.90p


Thats per liter around my post code, from petrolprices.com

[snozz]

Yup ... £1.40 a litre is average now.

You're allowed 2,500 litres tax free, as someone has already pointed out.

Consensus is to keep good records of what has gone in tax free so you can prove to tax man you only started doing it a week ago ... ;-)

[ged]

For those that run Landy's or other vehicles with the older style diesels, well worth the cost saving

So how many mpg do you get on the stuff?

[Badger90]

So how many mpg do you get on the stuff?

Same as diesel, about 23mpg

[MartiniDave]

23!!! Yipes!! I hope that's a typo!!! I get more like 32 mpg from my 200TDi 90.

Dave

[Bushwhacker]

I might be wrong, but I'm sure you need a Bosch fuel pump because the Lucas' go wrong.

[ged]

Same as diesel, about 23mpg

Very interesting that the consumption is about the same. Do the vehicle/engine manufacturers have anything to say about using this kind of fuel? I'd be a bit concerned about the loss of additives but I don't know what they put in Diesel. I know there are additives in petrols which the engines would, er, miss if fed on other fuels.

Do you think I could run my Optimus on the stuff?

[trekkingnut]

a friend of mine is an engineer and always collects the chip oil from his local chippy to run his vw estate tdi and it works a treat! car always smells ready to eat as well...

[ged]

23!!! Yipes!! I hope that's a typo!!! I get more like 32 mpg from my 200TDi 90.

Yeah, it did seem a bit thirsty. I just got 29.2mpg on a thousand mile run in my Jeep. Oh, and it's a 4.7 litre V8 petrol. Mind you I've practiced driving for economy quite a bit. My sister gets about 15mpg from the same vehicle and I have a business colleague who's just sold hers (same model as mine) because she couldn't get more than about NINE!!!

[Badger90]

23 opps, i was getting that on my 19J, it is nearer 30mpg, but tbh i don't monitor it that much and i haven't noticed a change in fuel consumption.

The 19J engines use the CAV lucas pump which isn't hardy enough for running the thicker oil, whereas the Bosch ones on 200Tdi's are alot better suited.

As for additives etc, a regular change of fuel filter ( the oil drags the crap from the tank and lines through more ) and new glow plugs every 6 months works for me.

I will add that i have in the past run 100% veg oil but now i usually mix a 70/30 oil/diesel and run it like that, smells pretty dire but does the job

[Badger90]

Do you think I could run my Optimus on the stuff?

I couldn't say, most Landy engines are simple ( pre TD5's etc ) so it's kept simple. A diesel compress's the fuel/air mixture to produce a combustion and with these engines you have a tank>lift pump>filter>injection pump> cylinder with no electric do dahs to upset it, it's a mechanical network. Other than the starter motor, i have 2 wires on my engine, 1 is the temp sensor for the water and the other is the stop solenoid cable on the injection pump ( nearly forgot the oil level cable as well , so thats 3 ) and if i really wanted, i could remove all 3 and still run the engine.

Newer engines have all sorts of electrics to monitor and produce better mpg and carbon emissions and to make them ' better ' at what they do, but the downside is your limited in what you can do with it

[mrcharly]

The 19J engines use the CAV lucas pump which isn't hardy enough for running the thicker oil, whereas the Bosch ones on 200Tdi's are alot better suited.

It isn't a question of 'hardy', it's the design. The Lucas pump uses the fuel as a lubricant on its main shaft, and neither SVO or 100% biodiesel are thin enough to work until they warm up.

If you want simple, I have a 2-pot Lister on a narrowboat. In theory it can be hand-cranked.

[MartiniDave]

Ooooh! 2 pot lister, lovely thing to listen to me thinks.

[Badger90]

It isn't a question of 'hardy', it's the design. The Lucas pump uses the fuel as a lubricant on its main shaft, and neither SVO or 100% biodiesel are thin enough to work until they warm up.

If you want simple, I have a 2-pot Lister on a narrowboat. In theory it can be hand-cranked.

It shall be never said that i don't learn something new everyday

[Badger90]

It can be said that this is a damn fine idea, i've just ordered 40litres of Veg oil from Tesco direct, to be delivered on friday, the cost is slightly more than 97p a litre but it beats driving to the local supermarket to get it

[EdS]

just be careful wit ha 200TDi as it is a direct injection so no swirl pots to mix the fuel air mixture -- the viscosity of the veg oil can result in poor spray pattern with unburnt oil gumming the piston ring. As can cld starting on veg oil.

When I replaced my injectors on a 300TDi there was a lot of oil "gunk" on them.

[Robbi]

can anyone tell me if a Suzuki Grand Vitara can run on these veg oils ? i've looked on the net but can't seem to find a straight yes or no

[EdS]

depends on which engine

[Robbi]

it's the Peorgeot 2.0TD