Stick tangs and Full tangs. Advantages and Disadvantages

[Ben98]

So what are the advantages and disadvantages of Stick tangs and Full tangs? Which is your Favorite? What do you think?

[Shinken]

Advantages:

Sticktangs = plenty strong enough, lighter, less can go wrong

Full tang = none

Disadvantages:

Stick tang = none

Full tang = More to go wrong, scales prone to come away from tang, heavier.

[Totumpole]

Ive seen a review of a Helle stick tang break after hitting with a batton one (but it must have been a duff knife).
Saying that my personal experience with a mora clipper which has a very short stick tang is it has stood up to a lot of abuse. My full tang knife feels more robust and I know in a survival situation I would prefer it for that.
Karesuando knives are stick tang and give a lifetime warranty aginst failure which is reassuring. Also for winter use a stick tang is a lot nicer to handle as you dont have skin on freezing metal - which is why most Scandinavian knives are of this design.

I suppose as with absolutely any tool, it depends on its intended purpose. My current wish list of knives has several of each (stick and full tang)

[JonathanD]

Sticktangs....

[Dave Budd]

I'm with Shinken.

From a using point of view I prefer sticks, lighter, strong enough, more confortable in the hand (no copld/sharp metal bits) and especially more comfortable for heavy chopping tools like billhooks, etc. I wouldn't choose a full tang for any reason other than an aesthetic choice. They are generally heavier, have issues with scales moving, pins and tangs coming pround, etc.

from a makers pov, they are generally easier to fit together, especially if it is to a simple wooden handle (you need to drill one hjole instead of a number of them and getting things flat, straight and at the correct angles is not an issue!). Unless a customer specifically requests one style or the other, I chose which way to handle a blade based on cosmetics. Full tangs lend themselves to mosaic pins, decorative file work on tangs and of course handle marterials such as jigged bone and micarta. Equally stick tangs are better for nice guards and stacked multiple handle materials.

If sticks were inferior in any way to full tangs then the vast majority of knives (and other bladed tools/weapons) through history around the world would not be made that way!

[Xunil]

I always wonder why folks think they will need the additional strength of a full tang knife in a survival knife/situation (always assuming they had the luxury of choice when the poop hits the fan )

What do they plan on doing that requires full tang over hidden tang construction, I wonder ?

Hidden tang for me every time, given the choice. I only own two full tang custom knives that I commissioned, and I would have had both in hidden tang if their respective makers had offered this as an option. Other than my Helle Temagami, just about every other knife I have bought or made is hidden tang.

I can normally easily persuade folks who think they need a full tang to take a hidden tang knife on, once they actually use one.

There is a ton of misinformation that, if repeated often enough, becomes internet "fact" like which steel is the best, which steel chips and why (usually down to someone doing something stupid with it, not that operator error ever enters the equation ), hidden tang over full tang construction, which grind (one of my own personal bugbears) and so on and so forth. Interestingly most of this "fact" is noised about by folks who have probably never made a knife, who have little or no understanding of metallurgy and heat treating, and who may never have used a hidden tang knife at all or, at least, not a good one.

Now that I have that off my chest ...


... full tang knives are quicker and easier to make, especially if you don't taper the tang, which I guess is an advantage if you plan on maximising your profits since you can churn them out very quickly.

It is quite ironic that makers will produce a full tang knife and then taper it for visual appeal and to reduce weight (how heavy can a 4" blade hunter be to warrant shaving a little off the tang for heaven's sakes ?) and then perhaps also cut out various voids in the tang or drill a series of lightening holes to further reduce weight. Not much of this makes sense in the whole full/hidden strength and durability debate, does it ?

Unless you plan on decorating the tang with file-work I see no benefit in having it visible - far more appealing to have a beautiful piece of handle material flow uninterrupted around the tang.

Basically, unless your knife is ever going to be an anchor point to abseil off, how strong does it have to be under normal conditions ?

Full or hidden can both be made and used well or badly and either the manufacture (including design and build) or end user can be responsible for failure.

Failure is normally the result of the user exceeding the inherent capabilities of a knife - materials fail relatively rarely under normal circumstances and, all thing being equal, a well made hidden tang knife should easily outlast its user under normal circumstances, as should a full tang so, basically, it all falls down to personal preference.

Me ?

Hidden tang, whenever possible.

[John Fenna]

Basically, unless your knife is ever going to be an anchor point to abseil off, how strong does it have to be under normal conditions ?
.

I have actually abseiled off a Snack Size Snickers bar (frozen and used as a buried anchor in snow as you would in a buried ice axe anchor) up in the Cairngorms.... I think my hidden tang knives are stronger than that so...thhey should even be up for that usage!
Most of my knives are hidden tang - including my big ol' Bill Hook - muchly strong!

[789987]

I have actually abseiled off a Snack Size Snickers bar (frozen and used as a buried anchor in snow as you would in a buried ice axe anchor) up in the Cairngorms.... I think my hidden tang knives are stronger than that so...thhey should even be up for that usage!
Most of my knives are hidden tang - including my big ol' Bill Hook - muchly strong!

[John Fenna]

What?
No understand!

[JonathanD]

What?
No understand!

Makes two of us.

[Shinken]

How dare you speak out about internet fact! lol

Mate i am liking this thread, some sense at last

[brancho]

I prefer hiden tang and do so for asthetic and weight reasons

As for in a surviavl situation try fixing a fulltang in this way and it can be done even simpler than that as shown by Mors in his Bushcraft book.

[789987]

tell me of this abseiling... why would you place your life in the hands of a tiny tasty treat?

[789987]

that was my cough and disbelieving smile. judging by the pic i would say it would be at least a kingsize that was required.

[John Fenna]

I was younger and slimmer then!
Photos taken at the time - during the set up not the ab down onto the ski slopes from the fiacel (sp)

scans of prints - before digital was invented!
Youth of today
Wont give a fellow credit for telling the truth - even if the fellow never tells lies!
Not a cliff - just a very steep neve slope (steeper than it looks)
It came after a day experimenting with various anchors such as ice bollards - I could have claimed to have abbed off nowt but water!

[789987]

I was younger and slimmer then!
Photos taken at the time - during the set up not the ab down onto the ski slopes from the fiacel (sp)

scans of prints - before digital was invented!
Youth of today
Wont give a fellow credit for telling the truth - even if the fellow never tells lies!
Not a cliff - just a very steep neve slope (steeper than it looks)
It came after a day experimenting with various anchors such as ice bollards - I could have claimed to have abbed off nowt but water!

i humbly beg your pardon for questioning your word - i assure you it was intended in a light hearted fashion and it was not my intention to cause offence.

[John Fenna]

No worries mate - it is kinda hard to rate as true...I normally eat the sweeties before I get to the mountain these days!

[sapper1]

I was younger and slimmer then!
Photos taken at the time - during the set up not the ab down onto the ski slopes from the fiacel (sp)

scans of prints - before digital was invented!
Youth of today
Wont give a fellow credit for telling the truth - even if the fellow never tells lies!
Not a cliff - just a very steep neve slope (steeper than it looks)
It came after a day experimenting with various anchors such as ice bollards - I could have claimed to have abbed off nowt but water!

Sorry John,I don't believe you abseiled using the snack size bar as an anchor.

Knowing you as I do I reckon you were climbing up to it.The determined look on your face shows this to be more likely.

[John Fenna]

Sorry John,I don't believe you abseiled using the snack size bar as an anchor.

Knowing you as I do I reckon you were climbing up to it.The determined look on your face shows this to be more likely.

That look is of terror being masked by a doubly frozen smile for the camera - and gritted teeth in the effort of keeping my botty from sqeeking!

[789987]

btw i hope youre taking this in the jovial manner it was intended... im just finding it difficulty believeing you hung off a cliff attached to a snickers.

[JonathanD]

... im just finding it difficulty believeing you hung off a cliff attached to a snickers.

You could have just asked, rather than the snark.

[southey]

btw i hope youre taking this in the jovial manner it was intended... im just finding it difficulty believeing you hung off a cliff attached to a snickers.

Judging by your latest string of posts around here you are feeling a little disillusioned with the world, is there anything you would like to tell the group?

[789987]

You could have just asked, rather than the snark.

no. if i dont cause offence its just not the same.

cmon man... lets lighten up here...

[789987]

Judging by your latest string of posts around here you are feeling a little disillusioned with the world, is there anything you would like to tell the group?

yes i would like to draw their attention to your lack of a sense of humour

[789987]

also full tang always. for the strength.

my god youre easy!

[Tiley]

A bit of a distraction, I admit, but I am tempted to try one of the puukos made by Finnish Wilderness. They're stick tang beasts and certainly look very attractive. Does anyone know anything more about them? Are they good/bad/indifferent? Would I be better off looking at other stick tang producers, like Helle, for instance?

Up until now, I've been a full tang devotee. I like the weight of them which, as someone has already pointed out, is all in the hand anyway, and that inherent sense of strength. I must have been lucky because none of the full tang tools I own has suffered from slab shrinkage or deformation - yet (at this point, my fingers are firmly crossed and I'm grabbing on to any available wood within reach...)! I think that, for the sake of completeness, I ought to try a stick tang but it's down to quality of manufacture, blade length and shape, handle material and so on, hence my enquiry about Finnish Wilderness.

[Siberianfury]

A bit of a distraction, I admit, but I am tempted to try one of the puukos made by Finnish Wilderness. They're stick tang beasts and certainly look very attractive. Does anyone know anything more about them? Are they good/bad/indifferent? Would I be better off looking at other stick tang producers, like Helle, for instance?

Up until now, I've been a full tang devotee. I like the weight of them which, as someone has already pointed out, is all in the hand anyway, and that inherent sense of strength. I must have been lucky because none of the full tang tools I own has suffered from slab shrinkage or deformation - yet (at this point, my fingers are firmly crossed and I'm grabbing on to any available wood within reach...)! I think that, for the sake of completeness, I ought to try a stick tang but it's down to quality of manufacture, blade length and shape, handle material and so on, hence my enquiry about Finnish Wilderness.

i have owned one and its brilliant, holds a great edge and can cope with battoning, i use the same blades to make my knives and i have never had a hint of a failure, even with heavy abuse.

[Tiley]

Many thanks for that. I feel a Heinnie order coming on...

i have owned one and its brilliant, holds a great edge and can cope with battoning, i use the same blades to make my knives and i have never had a hint of a failure, even with heavy abuse.

[John Fenna]

Now - back to the knives
I like concealed tangs and that is what I usually turn out.
However, rather than drilled handles I tend to use an adapted Henry rebated method.
This is 2 slabs of wood, one rebated to take the tang, which are thewn glued together with Epoxy.
If the tang has a very narrow shaping I will forge it into an eye and Pin or rvet through the eye. Some hidden tang knives come with drilled tangs for pinning.
This avoids others experiencing blade separation if the glue fails a la JD ....

[mrcharly]

I've abseiled off a number 0 hex threaded with 3mm cord. Lets just say I was clenching a bit on the way down.